Dr. No - Paisley Pattern (again!)

FTA69

Oh right, apologies for misunderstanding your question.

I personally would disagree with such a statement because as has been outlined by others above, it would be used for propaganda purposes on behalf of the DUP who would claim to have "humiliated" (Paisley's words) Republicans. That undoubtable occurence would not create the scenario on which agreement can be reached ie it is not the talk of peace. In such a political climate I am surprised the IRA agreed to decommision at all considering Unionist reciprocation is not guaranteed.

is_that_so

Isn't it win-win we all aim for in life. For a win-win you have to take that extra chance because the reward is so great. Neither side was prepared to see that through.
It's not subtance but symbols that drivesmuch of our perception of our history. The choice of language here reinforces this. As well as the ludicrous image of Mitchel McLoughlin saying "taking photos were not part of the Belfast Agreement" ,Paisley is intransigent, unplesant and any manner of other unpleasant things. But like Trimble before him he could have delivered and seemed prepared to deliver, encouraged by the pragmatists with the DUP. A genuine long-term solution is the only thing that has been humiliated . Such a terrible shame.

BCB

All this talk about the Provos decommissioning weapons..what about Loyalist terrorists?no doubt they still have quite a lot of weapons,why is all the focus on the IRA to decommission weapons and not Loyalist terrorists?And just whats in it for the Republican movement should another act of decommissioning take place?Sinn Fein should DEMAND that if there is to be another act of decommissioning that there be a total withdrawal of British troops from the North Of Ireland,that should be a priority along with numerous other things..this process isnt all about bigoted unionists like Paisley,he has twisted this and turned it into a charade,he`s the one barking all the orders,everything has to be his liking,he is the single biggest bigoted **** ive ever seen and the world would be a better place without him..more`s the pity the Ra didnt kill the **** years ago.. :mad:

is_that_so

BCB wrote:

All this talk about the Provos decommissioning weapons..what about Loyalist terrorists?no doubt they still have quite a lot of weapons,why is all the focus on the IRA to decommission weapons and not Loyalist terrorists?And just whats in it for the Republican movement should another act of decommissioning take place?Sinn Fein should DEMAND that if there is to be another act of decommissioning that there be a total withdrawal of British troops from the North Of Ireland,that should be a priority along with numerous other things..this process isnt all about bigoted unionists like Paisley,he has twisted this and turned it into a charade,he`s the one barking all the orders,everything has to be his liking,he is the single biggest bigoted **** ive ever seen and the world would be a better place without him..more`s the pity the Ra didnt kill the **** years ago.. :mad:

the divide 45% to 55% , at least ask the other 50% what they think, before imposing. One of the truly endearing characteristics of Sinn Fein. Our truth or no truth !

poneill

FTA69 wrote:

I personally would disagree with such a statement because as has been outlined by others above, it would be used for propaganda purposes on behalf of the DUP who would claim to have "humiliated" (Paisley's words) Republicans. That undoubtable occurence would not create the scenario on which agreement can be reached ie it is not the talk of peace. In such a political climate I am surprised the IRA agreed to decommision at all considering Unionist reciprocation is not guaranteed.

Hmmmm. Stick to short sentences my dear fellow. Sub clauses can be deployed out of context . This can lead to misunderstanding where clarity should prevail.

Paisley deserves clatity does he not ?

BuffyBot

..more`s the pity the Ra didnt kill the **** years ago..

Yes..making a martyr of him would have worked out wonderfully, wouldn't it?

growler

Paisley isn't capable of being a grown up politician in this century, he's a relic and a nasty reminder of how bad things used to be. No matter how few bombs go off ,how few houses are raided, how many councils are shared.... there is so much distrust at both political and grassroots level in the north that it's hard to see how, with Paisley as the voice of unionism, there can be any progress. The demand for photos is petty given the potential rewards for the people of the north but Paisley is seemingly unique in withstanding the usual political pressures / incentives, from the UK to do the "right thing" . Then again it wouldn't surprise me if this is a bit of posturing on the part of the DUP who want to be seen to stand up to SF, a few days go past they wrangle for limited access to evidence or some bs and eventually agree to move forward..... hopefully.

bonkey

FTA69 wrote:

a lie as it happens

As it happens, you'd better be able to prove that Horeb knew what he was saying was false and was deliberately trying to mislead people, or withdraw that statement.

jc

bonkey

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

More likely, what you should get from that passage is that there is no end of excuses Paisley et al have at their disposal to argue that he's still not satisfied, and the whole "able to re-arm" is just one of them.

Ask yourself this...who amongst the Unionists or decomissioning overseers currently has a detailed, verifiable list of all weapons that the IRA have in their possession? No-one, right?

So...no matter how much the IRA decomission, and what evidence there is of it, how do you ever prove that they haven't got more already stashed away? Didn't we see the exact same thing with Iraq - there was that Saddam could prove he didn't have WMDs. Similarly, there is no way the IRA can ever prove they have decomissioned fully.

And if you think I'm paranoid...listen to what Paisley is saying these days. He's saying that he is now willing to partake in a power-sharing agreement once he has proof that the IRA have fully decomissioned.

Bravo Mr. Paisley. Rewording an unproveable universal negative into something that sounds reasonable. Bravo.

jc

pete

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4080697.stm

The IRA statement, in which the organisation said it would move into a "new mode", appeared in Thursday's edition of the republican newspaper An Phoblacht.

The organisation stressed an end to its activities, said there would be complete decommissioning by December "if possible" and that two clergymen would oversee the process.

Should those "would"'s actually be "would have"'s, or are they going ahead with it regardless?

luckat

One way or the other, the demand for photographs is yet another stalling tactic. If photos were provided they'd be examined with triumphant yells of "Not good enough weapons have been destroyed", and it would be on to yet another round of "Not yet, not yet". This could go on forever. At some stage, a halt has to be called, and people must sit down and begin to govern together - as they were doing successfully for a while.

Horeb

FTA69 wrote:

People differ on what a legitimate target entails, if off-duty members of the police, British Army, UDR etc are included the toll tips slightly in favour of combatants. If the above are regarded as "civilians" well then the statistics change to the scenario you outlined.

IRA Volunteers are combatants and as such they expected to be, and were, targeted by the Brits or whoever.

FTA you seem to be so well informed from Waterford, did the troubles ever affect there really eh no, you and people from well down south shout the odds but in fact you have never seen a thing an support from a comfortable distance, johnny the fox and other person from the north and surrounding areas have live or are living there and are neither armchair republicans or barstool republicans such as you, really want to get involved except for your uneducated views and one sided attitude.


Have a good look at a blown up body which no longer looks human or a dead solider or police man, looks pretty human to me, Pal flush your head out and as for your comments about the UDR now the Home service RIR and the RUC/B Specials now the PSNI have a really good look at your history..

MrJoeSoap

Pal wrote:

Paisley has done a dishonest thing.

He named his price and the Republicans said SOLD.

Now he has changed it.

he never wanted to deal. ever.

This guy makes me sick.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see then, if the IRA agreed to show photos, how Paisley would react!

A Dub in Glasgo

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Wouldn't it be interesting to see then, if the IRA agreed to show photos, how Paisley would react!

He would say, 'I want video pictures'

If that was agreed

He would say 'I want a DUP deputation there with the worlds media in tow'

If that was agreed

He would say 'I Gerry Adams & Martin McGuinness there as well and they should bow before me as the weapons are destroyed'

You cannot reach a compromise with people like Paisley. They want humilation and to proclaim they destroyed the IRA. It ain't gonna happen.

A Dub in Glasgo

Horeb-Security wrote:

FTA you seem to be so well informed from Waterford, did the troubles ever affect there really eh no, you and people from well down south shout the odds but in fact you have never seen a thing an support from a comfortable distance, johnny the fox and other person from the north and surrounding areas have live or are living there and are neither armchair republicans or barstool republicans such as you, really want to get involved except for your uneducated views and one sided attitude.


Have a good look at a blown up body which no longer looks human or a dead solider or police man, looks pretty human to me, Pal flush your head out and as for your comments about the UDR now the Home service RIR and the RUC/B Specials now the PSNI have a really good look at your history..

Signed: Mr. Hyprocrite from Dublin

landser

Horeb-Security wrote:

except for your uneducated views and one sided attitude.
QUOTE]

Mr. Pot, please allow me to introdice you to Mr. Kettle......

BTW, will you be decommissioning your adolescent picture of some boys playing guns that appears at the end of your posts.

as for all this, "you don't know what we went through" rubbish, just because you lived in Derry, doesn't make you the only expert in the world re the North.

Horeb

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Signed: Mr. Hyprocrite from Dublin

I am not a dub just got a job here

Horeb

landser wrote:

Horeb-Security wrote:

except for your uneducated views and one sided attitude.
QUOTE]

Mr. Pot, please allow me to introdice you to Mr. Kettle......

BTW, will you be decommissioning your adolescent picture of some boys playing guns that appears at the end of your posts.

as for all this, "you don't know what we went through" rubbish, just because you lived in Derry, doesn't make you the only expert in the world re the North.

One of those chaps happen to be me...

landser

Horeb-Security wrote:

One of those chaps happen to be me...

oooh, which one????

Johnny_the_fox

landser wrote:

as for all this, "you don't know what we went through" rubbish, just because you lived in Derry, doesn't make you the only expert in the world re the North.

and living in the south and knowing people in the north does then? :eek:

landser

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

and living in the south and knowing people in the north does then? :eek:

who said i'm not from the North??? as it happens, i'm from a border area

A Dub in Glasgo

Horeb-Security wrote:

I am not a dub just got a job here

Ahhh, you see how easy it is to make assumptions about people based on their 'location' on this forum!

bonkey

Theres a few too many comments here which constitute personal attacks for my liking. I would suggest that people refresh their knowledge of the rules and start being a little less impolite.

jc

Hagar

Judging by recent photos Rev Ian Paisley doesn't have much time left.
Perhaps when he, and the other intransigents, on both sides, kick the bucket we will have a bit of peace throughout the land.

bobbyjoe

How about they take photos of the weapons all in a pile decommissioned and have a big poster saying "Paisley sucks rhino c**k" in the background.
That way Paisley will have his photo but it won't be splashed around the press in a triumphant manner.
Or even have "we really won" embedded in digital photos.

MrPudding

Hagar wrote:

Judging by recent photos Rev Ian Paisley doesn't have much time left.
Perhaps when he, and the other intransigents, on both sides, kick the bucket we will have a bit of peace throughout the land.

Yeh. Yippee. Cos his son is sooooooo much more accomodating. He is a problem, but there are many more lined up behind him with similar views.

I have met big Ian a number of times and he is actually very nice for the most part. His son on th eother hand is an ignorant cnut.

MrP

landser

MrPudding wrote:

I have met big Ian a number of times and he is actually very nice for the most part. His son on th eother hand is an ignorant cnut.

MrP

This does appear to be the general consensus. however, many bombastic bigots are quite charming.

Of course, the main reason that the 'ra didn't wipe big Ian is twofold; firstly, his rantings brought the whole of the unionist/loyalist and in particular the DUP/UDA wing into complete disrepute. Secondly, those same rantings stirred up immense anger in the nationalist community, thus fuelling support for the IRA.

Paisley did as much as anyone to prolong the war in the North and now he's doing it again.

A Dub in Glasgo

bobbyjoe wrote:

How about they take photos of the weapons all in a pile decommissioned and have a big poster saying "Paisley sucks rhino c**k" in the background.
That way Paisley will have his photo but it won't be splashed around the press in a triumphant manner.
Or even have "we really won" embedded in digital photos.

I like it..

sceptre

OK, word to the wise: calling someone a bigot is defensible. "Sucks rhino cock" is not (even if by "cock" you meant "horn") (and yeah, I know the point you're making but it appears to have acted as a flag for everyone else to act like juveniles)

This is meant to be a discussion forum about politics for people who are reasonably smart and reasonably coherent. Note difference between that and whatever you get up to behind the school bicycle shed. The little intelligence I have is oozing away as a result of having to read this stuff.

Horeb

I have met him aswell, I agree with his ethics but he is an aqquired taste so to speak