Tax Bands

dictatorcat

I wanted to post a poll on this to see what people prefer. Anyho heres what i want to ask peoples opinion; Which of the following three would you like to see as a method of tax calculation:

1. The current two tier system of 20% and 40%,

2. A three tier system of 20%, 30% and 40% depending on your earnings or

3. A continuous tax band where the amount of tax you pay is directly proportional to your taxable income, ie. no bands as such but rather a scale where if you get a raise you simply pay an extra one or two percent depending on the amount.

Just wondering what people think?

dahamsta

I've always been an advocate of 3, and can't understand why it isn't mooted by mainstream politicians. Obviously the scale would need to be developed carefully to avoid a disincentive to achieve, but even with that would it really be that difficult to implement?

adam

dabhal

What about tax free allowance?
What are the cut off levels for the 20% 30% 40%

AngelofFire

I propose more tax bands to create a more equitable tax system, its rediculous that a person on 35000 per year pays the same as someone earning 3000000 per year.

No tax for those earning below E15000 per year

a 20% rate for people earning between 15,000 and 33,000

a 35% rate for people earning between 33,000 and 70,000 per year

a 48% rate for people earning between 70,000 and 135,000 per year

a 52% rate for people earning above 135,000 per year.

daveirl

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AngelofFire

Yes i agree, they pay more in actual sums of money. But not in proportional terms, if people are making more money out of society than others, then they should be obliged to spare an extra proportion of their wealth to help to support society. Its not as if they`d notice the extra few percentage points.

daveirl

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AngelofFire

I contest the point that high earners are the sole drivers of the economy. In order for a business to prosper they need to employ wage labour. Example Workers in Paddy power plc earn considerably less than directors yet without the workers the company wouldnt be able to make money, and there would be no highly paid directors.

Victor

daveirl wrote:

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Eh, tax credits people?

Nuttzz

AngelofFire wrote:

I contest the point that high earners are the sole drivers of the economy. In order for a business to prosper they need to employ wage labour. Example Workers in Paddy power plc earn considerably less than directors yet without the workers the company wouldnt be able to make money, and there would be no highly paid directors.

and without the highly paid directors to run the company there would be no workers, chicken and egg me thinks

Gurgle

daveirl wrote:

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Nope, economy is consumer driven.
For every 1 person earning €100k there are at least 100 earning less than €50k.
That €5,000,000 is fully taxed and the remains (around €3,500,000) is all spent in Ireland. Raising a family on €50k (or less ) does not leave anything to invest in tax avoiding schemes.

The 1 earning €100k can afford to take full advantage of many of the tax breaks, such as buying a second house to rent out (with tax relief on all of the interest), SSIA with the maximum contribution, AVCs, Share-purchase schemes etc.

whether it be through being CEOs of large companies or whatever.

Big-wig management types have one main purpose in their jobs - to make more money for the company they work in. If that means tax avoision, Transfer Price fixing, talking down profits in union meetings etc etc, thats what they do.

In Ireland particularly, we have an enormous proportion of foreign companies here. The profits made don't stay in the Irish economy.

daveirl

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bonkey

daveirl wrote:

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Don't we sit second in the world after the US for disparity of wealth?

Hardly what I would call "a nice balance".

jc

daveirl

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Gurgle

daveirl wrote:

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I would be quite happy to achieve only 10 or 20 times minimum wage

daveirl

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thejollyrodger

i think the tax system in ireland is alright but the only major problem is how quick people can end up on the 40% tax band. They should introduce a third band as everyone as suggested. I think thats the main problem with tax in this country.

Meh

daveirl wrote:

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Incorrect. People on 35k pay a much smaller percentage of their income in tax (as well as a much much smaller absolute amount, of course). They only pay 42% on the amount above 32k.

They pay the same marginal rate as the rich guy (well actually, their marginal rate is 4% higher until they get to 42k, because of the employee PRSI ceiling. But this isn't enough to have them paying as much percentage tax as the rich guy).

AngelofFire

daveirl wrote:

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On that logic you`s sware that when the celtic tiger started to roar, every last irish person was handed the opportunity to become successful entrepreneurs. This could not be further from the truth, firstly because not every person is born with the opportunity to become entrepreneures. Also because much of the wealth from the Celtic tiger was channelled into tax concessions, this gave disproportionate benefit to those who were already rich. Not nearly enough was spent on the public realm eg social services, education. That is why we have such a desparity of wealth, not because a few entrepreneures had the same start in life as people who are less well of then them and somehow worked their backsides off and became rich.

Redleslie2

bonkey wrote:

Don't we sit second in the world after the US for disparity of wealth?

Hardly what I would call "a nice balance".

jc

I don't think so. The UK, Guatemala (where 1% of the population controls over 60% of the land and wealth) and others are all far worse.

ionapaul

Anyone know what metrics they use to calculate the disparity of wealth figures? What countries score the highest for "most equitable distribution of wealth"?

Redleslie2

ionapaul wrote:

Anyone know what metrics they use to calculate the disparity of wealth figures? What countries score the highest for "most equitable distribution of wealth"?

Countries with greatest equality:

1. Slovak Republic
2. Belarus
3. Hungary
4. Denmark
5. Japan
6. Sweden
7. Czech Republic
8. Finland
9. Norway
10. Bulgaria

Table here.

elivsvonchiaing

Completely off the wall - but imho:
I will not offer comment on lower bands of tax as that is for government to work out to pay the bills.

Over €1m tax drops to 10%, over €5m zero tax. This is not social justice, but I reckon precious few people who earn €5m spend 180 days in the country each year! If they live here they will contribute through VAT. Rich people should be encouraged to live here imho!

daveirl

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elivsvonchiaing

laments rep system

daveirl

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AngelofFire

daveirl wrote:

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Yes i agree everyone who is born with intelligence and entrepreneural spirit should be able to achieve their full potential. However a lot of people born with enterpreneural spirit are unable to achieve that potential because of the background that they were born into, some may even be born into poverty, this is a huge blight on the chances to become a successful entreprenure.whereas, a person who is born of fairly well off parants has a 100 times greater chances of succeeding than someone born into a poor background who would have the same enterprenueral skills. Basically what im tryin to say is, the utopian view that all people with enterpreneural ability succeed is only valid If Everyone has the same start in life

rien_du_tout

daveirl wrote:

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Because it can cause political instability and create an elitist society where the few can lobby for anything they want......... whats so wrong with leveling the scales so that its not equal but doesnt topple over!!?

ionapaul

Ireland's not even close to tobbling over. Almost all members of our poor enjoy a living standard far above that endured by billions of other human beings on this planet.

dictatorcat

ionapaul wrote:

Ireland's not even close to tobbling over. Almost all members of our poor enjoy a living standard far above that endured by billions of other human beings on this planet.

maybe not now, but it's not a question of living standards, it's about equality. Were the poor french any worse off than the poor germans or english in 1793? Were the Russians any worse off than other countries when the Tzar was toppled? No, it's about local inequality. The tax system must be modified to create a more equal society, only in an equal society can the majority be satisfied. The rich should not be penalised for being rich, however they should be expected to contribute proportionately to the society from which they have benefited.

elivsvonchiaing

Let's look at this logically: I earn €1m/year (I wish) I can spend 150 days in Ireland and spend fúck-all my domicile is in Grand Cayman...

Tax-Breaks for rich bastards please! CJH had it right!