Companies and political donations

Gurgle

Why would a company donate money to a politician or political party ?
I mean what legitimate reasons do they have?

No company parts with money unless a return of some kind is expected, but what return can they expect that wouldn't be illegal/immoral/unethical on the part of the politician ?

I'm not even being cynical here, there has to be some justification for there not being a law against it. I can't figure out what it is though.

Anyone?

SkepticOne

I think FG suggested that company donations be banned a while back.

Companies do it so that they can be looked upon favourably when they come lobbying for something.

Gurgle

SkepticOne wrote:

Companies do it so that they can be looked upon favourably when they come lobbying for something.

Yeah, I thought the real reason was along those lines but it would be illegal(or at least extremely unethical) for an elected representative to take into account who gave them money which didn't go on to the state.

Idealism, I know.

James_M

The 'genuine' reason is that a company might support the agenda of a particular party (because its agenda might benefit the company directly or indirectly) and would therefore like to donate to that party. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it on that basis until you look at the extreme corporate support given in the US leading to a clear conflict of interests.

As well, any donations over €5079 made by one company must be put on public record.

sovtek

I think any donations to a party could potentially compromise a politician/party.
I think that campaigns should be subsidized.
IIRC here in SA you receive government funding if your party gets a certain amount of signatures or has enough members...something along those lines.

Gurgle

James M wrote:

The 'genuine' reason is that a company might support the agenda of a particular party (because its agenda might benefit the company directly or indirectly) and would therefore like to donate to that party.

Hmmm, I see your point.
But doesn't that encourage parties to plan their agenda to make the country more profitable for big businesses rather than a better place for the people to live in.

sovtek wrote:

I think that campaigns should be subsidized.
IIRC here in SA you receive government funding if your party gets a certain amount of signatures or has enough members...something along those lines.

Sounds more like popular democracy, compared to the corporate democracies we have here and in most of the 'free' world.

Does it work ?

sovtek

Gurgle wrote:

Sounds a lot more like popular democracy, compared to the corporate democracies we have here and in most of the 'free' world.

Well don't get all misty eyed and start looking for South African immigration sites. Corporations (both national and multi-national) still have ALOT of power here and have other ways of swaying (bribing) poor, unsuspecting members of the ANC.

Gurgle

sovtek wrote:

Well don't get all misty eyed and start looking for South African immigration sites. Corporations (both national and multi-national) still have ALOT of power here and have ways of swaying (bribing) poor, unsuspecting members of the ANC.

Yeah, but at least its illegal there.
Here, just change 'bribe' for 'political donation' and you're fully on the clean side of the law.

bonkey

Gurgle wrote:

Hmmm, I see your point.
But doesn't that encourage parties to plan their agenda to make the country more profitable for big businesses rather than a better place in for the people to live in.

Yup....except that its the people who vote, not the companies.

Think about it....If you started a political party in teh morning with a policy of "we will do whatever is best for business, full stop, end of story", your reasoning above would suggest that corporates would flock to this party.

I bet they wouldn't. Why? Because very few people would vote for such a party.

jc

sovtek

Gurgle wrote:

Yeah, but at least its illegal there.
Here, just change 'bribe' for 'political donation' and you're fully on the clean side of the law.

True...it would probably have more of an impact in places like Europe and America.
Here you also have the problem of the EYE EMM EFF persuading (forcing) the governments' hand as well as members of the ANC taking bribes, being promised board membership..etc etc... (especially with "black empowerment" schemes). Things that wouldn't be a factor in Ireland (or America)...well at least not the IMF problem.

James_M

bonkey wrote:

Yup....except that its the people who vote, not the companies.

jc

Exactly. Of course the politicians want to keep everyone happy in order to stay in office but its up to them to strike the correct balance and if they ignore the punter - they're out (at least we'd like to think)

Gurgle

bonkey wrote:

Yup....except that its the people who vote, not the companies.

Think about it....If you started a political party in teh morning with a policy of "we will do whatever is best for business, full stop, end of story", your reasoning above would suggest that corporates would flock to this party.

I bet they wouldn't. Why? Because very few people would vote for such a party.

jc

So you would have to publicly announce that you were going to do the best for the people, and run a huge PR campaign to convince us.

So how are you going to fund that campaign ?

The point is that businesses do make donations to politicians and parties. I don't know the figures, as donations below €5079 (thanks James_M) are not a matter of public record.

Given that as a fact, I'm asking why, from the business' point of view, is that a worthwhile investment ?

I'm not even looking at the politicians here, they're a pack of lying self-serving bàstards who will change their agenda on the fly for whoever offers the biggest carrot.

Nuttzz

I donate and support the PD's because their tax policy suit myself and my company, if I donate to them it means that they have more funds to run the party and run a campaign which can help keep them in power thus maintaining their tax policies, its a win win for both of us. For the record we dont deal with the irish public sector and export over 85% to the UK private sector the balance of which is made up by private companies here

Gurgle

Nuttzz wrote:

I donate and support the PD's because their tax policy suit myself and my company, if I donate to them it means that they have more funds to run the party and run a campaign which can help keep them in power thus maintaining their tax policies, its a win win for both of us.

Thank you, that answers the question.

Would it be a case that their tax policies are designed to attract political donations or for the general good of the country ?

Nuttzz

not really to be honest, the high tax state that we had in the 80's wasnt an economic success however the low tax state since the mid 90's has been. Certain aspects in Ireland still need to be improved but its a much better place to live in compared to 1984.

Gurgle

Nuttzz wrote:

Certain aspects in Ireland still need to be improved but its a much better place to live in compared to 1984.

No doubt about that.
And as a general rule whats good for the companies is good for the people.

But these tax policies are just as good for your competitors as they are for you, and if they aren't making donations then they do better overall from the system. Maybe that doesn't apply in your case.

Still, something sticks in my throat about a democracy run by parties sponsored by businesses.

Maybe it would be better if a business could earn tax breaks by contributing to a community playground instead of by funding an election campaign.

Thats how I'll do it when I take over the country.