Next Round Predictions

jank

So who do you want to draw for the next stage

Arsenal can draw:

Bremen

Porto

Barcelona

Bayern

Real Madrid

Chelsea can draw:
Bremen

PSV

Barcelona

Bayern

Real Madrid

Man UTD can draw:

Monaco

Leverkusen

Inter

Juve

Milan

LIverpool can draw:

Lyon

Leverkusen

Inter

Juve

Milan

TBH there isnt much of a difference there in terms of qaulity imo.
The knockout stages seem stronger this year then last for some reason.

Id like Arsenal to avoid Barca, Munich, Real in that order.
Bremen look strong so porto would be the obvious choice as the weaker team

My prediction

Arsenal vs Real
Man Utd vs AC Milan
Chelsea vs Barca
Liverpool vs Inter

Its going to be tough going anyway u look at it.

The Rooster

PSV are the plum draw for anyone. IMO they are the worst team left and will lose no matter who they draw. After that the top seeds would be looking for either Werder, Porto or Liverpool and to avoid the rest. But any of those would be capable of an upset.

Leverkusen and Monaco are the weakest of the top seeds, but both are dangerous.

I'd rate as follows based mainly on form this season.

Top seeds:

1-3: Chelsea, Juve and Milan (cant separate them)
4: Inter
5-6: Arsenal and Lyon
7-8: Leverkusen and Monaco

Second seeds:
1: Barcelona
2: Real Madrid
3: Man Utd
4: Bayern
5-7: Liverpool, Werder, Porto
8: PSV

johnor

I hope united can avoid the italian teams but as you said most teams look good at this stage. I think out of all the italian teams AC look the weakest to me, their defence is aging and can be exploited....

jank

johnor wrote:

I hope united can avoid the italian teams but as you said most teams look good at this stage. I think out of all the italian teams AC look the weakest to me, their defence is aging and can be exploited....

AC milan are going to be the strongest imo. Nesta and Stam is class

mayordenis

i wouldnt mind liverpool getting inter or leverkusen

David19

johnor wrote:

I hope united can avoid the italian teams but as you said most teams look good at this stage. I think out of all the italian teams AC look the weakest to me, their defence is aging and can be exploited....

I'd put milan as one of the favourites to win the whole thing. They have an excellent defense. They also have shevchenko who's in great form. I don't think anyone would want to draw milan.

mr_angry

johnor wrote:

I hope united can avoid the italian teams but as you said most teams look good at this stage. I think out of all the italian teams AC look the weakest to me, their defence is aging and can be exploited....

Eh, you do realise they came out of probably the toughest group in the competition, and with a very impressive points total in the process? If anything, AC are potentially the best team in the competition. Juventus look very strong too, except that they aren't scoring many goals. Chelsea look the strongest so far. Defensively and offensively they're performing.

What amazed me this year was that 2 teams went out last night with a points total of 10. Thats a pretty damn high total to go out on. (Olympiakos and Dynamo Kiev, btw.)

eirebhoy

johnor wrote:

I hope united can avoid the italian teams but as you said most teams look good at this stage. I think out of all the italian teams AC look the weakest to me, their defence is aging and can be exploited....

They may have an ageing defence but the formation they play means they concede very few goals. Their attack is better than all Italian teams IMO, Rui Costa, Seedorf, Tomasson, Crespo/Inzaghi can't even make the first 11.

johnor

I agree they have a fantastic attack, alot of exciting players i just think that there might be room to exploit their defence. Im not suggesting they are the weakest team left in the CL im just saying out of the three italian teams they'd be my pick to face....think those two teams were the first two to go out with 10 points since celtic, celtic being the first i think?

A Dub in Glasgo

AC Milan are one of the strongest teams left!!

A Dub in Glasgo

johnor wrote:

think those two teams were the first two to go out with 10 points since celtic, celtic being the first i think?

Celtic went out in 2001 with 9 points

johnor

oh right so....i realise that they are strong im just saying at the moment id prefare to face AC than Inter or Juve. Think Inters front two are very tricky to deal with.....in my opinion AC rely on Shevchenko alot, rightly so he is top class...but if a defender can do a good job on him I dont think his poetential strike partner is as good, where as martins and adriano seem to have hit it off and play very well together. obviously there is more than just the front two but over the two legs the front two are vital...

David19

johnor wrote:

oh right so....i realise that they are strong im just saying at the moment id prefare to face AC than Inter or Juve. Think Inters front two are very tricky to deal with.....in my opinion AC rely on Shevchenko alot, rightly so he is top class...but if a defender can do a good job on him I dont think his poetential strike partner is as good, where as martins and adriano seem to have hit it off and play very well together. obviously there is more than just the front two but over the two legs the front two are vital...

Its very very hard to stop shevchenko scoring. Adriano and martins are very good but so is kaka! Crespo has also just started scoring for milan. Remember crespo was an awesome striker in Italy. He cost £36 million when he moved to lazio. He could be returning to his pre chelsea days. Also inzaghi is a proven goal scorer and could hit good form anytime. Tomassan is rubbish so we won't talk about him.
By the way in reference to their defense, milan had the joint second best defense in the qualifying rounds. They only conceded 3 goals.
I think milan are better than inter and could match juventus. All three of them are very good though. No one wants to play them.

Johnny_the_fox

Hopefully ManUtd get Inter.. and Veron runs the show.

eirebhoy

David19 wrote:

Its very very hard to stop shevchenko scoring. Adriano and martins are very good but so is kaka! Crespo has also just started scoring for milan. Remember crespo was an awesome striker in Italy. He cost £36 million when he moved to lazio. He could be returning to his pre chelsea days.

Crespo's time at Chelsea was completely underrated. It has been pointed out here a few times that he was second to Henry on the goals per minute played ratio. I'd have Crespo over Drogba in a second.

David19

eirebhoy wrote:

Crespo's time at Chelsea was completely underrated. It has been pointed out here a few times that he was second to Henry on the goals per minute played ratio. I'd have Crespo over Drogba in a second.

I agree with you. Im not saying he was poor. He wasn't as good as he was for inter, parma or lazio though.

smemon

for utd the easiest tie would be Leverkusen or monaco. ironically, both these 2 have knocked utd out in the knockout stages over the past few years so none would be an 'easy' game.

personally, i'd take anyone, if your good enough to win the CL which utd are, you shouldnt fear anyone and ferguson certainly doesnt. at this stage the quality is superb, on everyone's day, they can all beat each other.

we could see an all english final the way things are going. utd chelsea & arse are all capable of beating the likes of madrid and barca on their day. liverpool are not capable of going away from home and winning a big game so once the semi's come around i'd be very surprised if liverpool are still in there, they might scrape past the last 16 though.

Drag00n79

I can see Leverkusen and/or Bremen causing an upset in the Second Round.

Jivin Turkey

smemon wrote:

liverpool are not capable of going away from home and winning a big game so once the semi's come around i'd be very surprised if liverpool are still in there, they might scrape past the last 16 though.

I think that is very presumptuous to say that Liverpool will be lucky to scrape past the last 16, particularly because Im sure you think United will go a lot further.

Im basing on the fact that they got more points away from home than United (in a much tougher group may I add), and got the same as Arsenal (but won more games), away from home already in this years CL. Not to mention that they were totally screwed by a refs decision in Monaco. So why do you think they are "not capable" of getting a result away from home?

United havnt won an away game against a "big team" (a team higher than a second seed) in the CL for 2 years. What makes you think they will start now?

Jivin Turkey

Shamrok wrote:

I can see Leverkusen and/or Bremen causing an upset in the Second Round.

I agree, Germany in back in fashion this year and I really think Bremen are a particularly tricky package. They have that mystery around them that accompanied Leverkusen to the final a couple of years back. 13 points from a tough group speaks for itself.

impr0v

Arsenal will surely be hoping for Porto. If they don't get them, their next best draw is Real in my book.

super_furry

As a Liverpool fan, I'd be happy with anyone except Milan and Juventus - two of the best teams in the competition to my mind. That said, if you want to win it, you have to beat the best sooner or later.

smemon

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I think that is very presumptuous to say that Liverpool will be lucky to scrape past the last 16, particularly because Im sure you think United will go a lot further.

Im basing on the fact that they got more points away from home than United (in a much tougher group may I add), and got the same as Arsenal (but won more games), away from home already in this years CL. Not to mention that they were totally screwed by a refs decision in Monaco. So why do you think they are "not capable" of getting a result away from home?

United havnt won an away game against a "big team" (a team higher than a second seed) in the CL for 2 years. What makes you think they will start now?

liverpool are not used to big games, big EUROPEAN games. over 2 legs particularly away they'll struggle due to lack of experience and knowledge of european football and how to control games when they need to be controlled.

you can pull out all the meaningless stats you want they will just paper over the frailties liverpool have compared to the big 3 from england. put the pressure on, under the floodlights, in a continental stadium in a knock out match 1-0 down against quality opposition and we'll see how good liverpool are. the big 3 are all capable of doing it, not liverpool.

A Dub in Glasgo

Of course they are smemon, they played Celtic 2 years ago

Maybe you were too busy watching Man United to notice

I think Liverpool have as much a chance as 2 of the other English teams.

eirebhoy

smemon wrote:

liverpool are not used to big games, big EUROPEAN games. over 2 legs particularly away they'll struggle due to lack of experience and knowledge of european football and how to control games when they need to be controlled.

What about Monaco (2003-2004), Lyon (2003-2004), Inter (2002-2003), Leverkusen (2001-2002), Leeds (2000-2001)???

smemon

played celtic and lost in the uefa cup. (then got hammered 5-1 this year preseason, evidence of celtic's downfall over the past couple of years) but that's a mickey mouse cup compared to the champions league, the real deal.

a club of liverpool's size shouldnt be in the uefa cup and SHOULD be in the knockout stages of the champions league but i just dont think they can go past the quarter finals.

p.pete

smemon wrote:

a club of liverpool's size shouldnt be in the uefa cup and SHOULD be in the knockout stages of the champions league but i just dont think they can go past the quarter finals.

High praise indeed. A lot will depend on them getting through the winter fixtures without accumulating to many injuries. Then they have to get past the 1st leg without Gerrard. Possibly more then just one match if UEFA look at footage from some of his tackles, shame we're so reliant on him.

They reached the CL semi-final recently enough but I'd be amazed if they get to those heights this year...

smemon

eirebhoy wrote:

What about Monaco (2003-2004), Lyon (2003-2004), Inter (2002-2003), Leverkusen (2001-2002), Leeds (2000-2001)???

i take it your saying how they got far when nobody expected them to?

you'll always have surprises, everton, ipswich etc in the league....it happens every year. like anyone i cant predict football but going on liverpool's form of recent years and the players they have they cant compete with europe's elite, like barca, madrid, arsenal, manu, chelsea, ac milan, juve etc...

now they could win it (like porto last year) but it would take a great deal of luck and opposition playing poorly in order for that to happen.

eirebhoy

It wasn't really that nobody expected them to go far. You said they'll struggle because of their lack of experience in knockout stages of the CL, thats bull. Liverpools 8 CL matches this season and previous European experience is enough. They certainly won't get knocked out in the next round solely because of their lack of experience.

BTW, I FORBID (!!!!!) you to mention Celtic until you admit you hate them. :mad: Celtic v Ireland in May.

bizmark

Celtic vs. Ireland? If Ireland puts out any type of a decent team (which we more than likely wont) it shouldnt be much of a game* couldn’t the Fai find any half decent countries to play or is this just a money spinner?


might not be 100% true but im fairly sure ireland would beat celtic fairly easy......I do not dislike celtic and this isnt a troll

p.pete

Clubs are quite often in a very strong position compared to countries - the players are constantly playing and training together and can form a better unit. I wouldn't assume a walkover even with full strenght squads. Ireland would struggle to consistantly survive in the CL past the Christmas mark like Celtic have managed to do for the last few years.

eirebhoy

Put it this way, Celtic are better than Scotland and we played them in Kerr's first game in charge. Its Jackie McNamara's testimonial (don't ask me why he chose Ireland) and its in Celtic Park. Also, the experience gained in playing in such an atmosphere can only be a good thing. Hopefully Celtic make a few signings by then though.

jesus_thats_gre

smemon wrote:

liverpool are not used to big games, big EUROPEAN games. over 2 legs particularly away they'll struggle due to lack of experience and knowledge of european football and how to control games when they need to be controlled.

you can pull out all the meaningless stats you want they will just paper over the frailties liverpool have compared to the big 3 from england. put the pressure on, under the floodlights, in a continental stadium in a knock out match 1-0 down against quality opposition and we'll see how good liverpool are. the big 3 are all capable of doing it, not liverpool.

Smemon you really dont have a clue what you are talking about.. He didn't present you with meaningless stats, he presented you with cold hard facts that coincidently prove that you are talking out of your rear end. Liverpool do not have the experience that United have in the CL but they are more than capable to pulling a result out of the bag against a big team.

Have you actually been watching them play lately? They are playing quality football and are certainly lacking no confidence. There is no doubting that they are the weakest of the 4 English clubs but the basis for your opinion has been proven to be incorrect.

Jivin Turkey

smemon wrote:

liverpool are not used to big games, big EUROPEAN games. over 2 legs particularly away they'll struggle due to lack of experience and knowledge of european football and how to control games when they need to be controlled.

you can pull out all the meaningless stats you want they will just paper over the frailties liverpool have compared to the big 3 from england. put the pressure on, under the floodlights, in a continental stadium in a knock out match 1-0 down against quality opposition and we'll see how good liverpool are. the big 3 are all capable of doing it, not liverpool.

I think Liverpool have played enough "big" games against teams of a decent pedigree in Europe over the last 5 years to have enough "experience and knowledge" to do them fine. Add to that a manager who would have an excellent knowledge of European football not to mention how to play it.

How they fair depends on something else too, the draw. They could draw Lyon and put them aside no problem. At the same time they could draw Juve and would require a huge performance to put them out. But dont write them off yet. By the time the next round comes along you will see a very different Liverpool team.

I didnt present "meaningless stats", I presented hard facts. Im not disillusioning myself thinking Liverpool have a great chance of winning the CL, yet alone making the semis (although Ive seen stranger things). But at the same time I think its pretty confusing how you can dismiss Liverpools chances based on not enough experience in "big games" away from home yet you can see United go all the way (or even the semis)??? United havnt got a result away against a "big team" in 2 years, why would they start now?

Arsenal have shown that they can get results away from home, and I dont think anyone will doubt Chelsea at this level.

smemon

we'll see if liverpool are still in it come the semi-final's. if you were a betting man, you'd put your money on the 3 other english clubs to be there, not liverpool.

look, most of that liverpool side has no champions league experience of the highest level as in crucial knock out matches. dont even go near the uefa cup, its a completely different kettle of fish. look at utd's, chelsea's, arsenal's sides, they've all got huge experience at a high level internationally aswell. benitez cant play, so he can't save a liverpool side in trouble away in europe.

i cant believe people expect liverpool to mount a serious CL challenge with their inconsistency in recent years, this season even. not to take away from their victory over olympiacos, but they didnt even cruise through that group and went through with a last minute goal. im deliberately trying not to bring up utd but how can i when questions are being asked.

2years and we havn't beaten a 'big' team. we played madrid when they were on top of their game, plus we beat them at home, just couldnt cope away from home. i hold my hands up and say madrid beat us fair and square we just couldnt cope but that side was one of the best in the world all clicking at the one time. if utd got madrid now, we'd have a much better chance.

porto last year was unlucky, last minute goal from nothing put us out when we were going through a bad patch anyway in the league, but we didnt deserve to lose. once utd come up against a big team is when they play football. its the stuff in between that lets us down.

BaZmO*

smemon wrote:

2years and we havn't beaten a 'big' team. we played madrid when they were on top of their game, plus we beat them at home, just couldnt cope away from home.

That's a very bad example. Real Madrid were toying with Manu at Old Trafford. The match ended up 4-3 to Manu and Real looked like scoring anytime they wanted to. They just had an answer to everything Utd. threw at them!
Sure Utd. had to beat them by 2 goals to go through and they just couldn't cut it I'm afraid.

B.

jesus_thats_gre

smemon wrote:

look, most of that liverpool side has no champions league experience of the highest level as in crucial knock out matches. dont even go near the uefa cup, its a completely different kettle of fish. look at utd's, chelsea's, arsenal's sides, they've all got huge experience at a high level internationally aswell. benitez cant play, so he can't save a liverpool side in trouble away in europe.

So you are saying that these players do not have enough experience at the highest levels of football?

Steve Finnan
Sami Hyypia
Jamie Carragher
John Arne Riise

Dietmar Hamann
Steven Gerrard
Harry Kewell
Xabi Alonso

Milan Baros

Try totalling the number of caps and CL appearances they have Smemon..

Finnan has a wealth of international experience. Hyypia and Riise have a hugh number of caps and CL appearences combined. Hamann, German international and has done it all. Gerard, a bluffer , Kewell has been playing poorly but has more than enough experience. Alonso is young but has played in La Liga regularly against the bigggest and best and is an international. And then Baros, hmmmmm what record does he have in international games and the recent Euro championships?

There is very little to suggest that United have a better of progressing this season to be honest.. I have acknowledged that Liverpool are 4th out of the English teams too before you start.


Tell me why the Uefa cup experience does not count for anything also?

jesus_thats_gre

Posted by request from case n basket!!! Gandalf give the man access!!!

I only give access if he goes thru the soccer access process. Don't do this again or I will ban you. I have PM'ed you about this as well.

CASE N BASKET wrote:

No posting by proxy. If he wants to be heard let him go via the soccer access route !

galwaydude

Been a liverpool fan i think we have a good chance as good as any.Ok the team hasnt really clicked this season but the signs are there for everyone too see.2:1 against arsenal was no fluke by the way.Potentailly alonso and gerrad are the best midfield partnership in europe.We do have our failings but who doesnt and so far so good.Benitez has been very good so far and dont forget eh won the spanish league twice and the eufa cup once in 3 years with valencia.And with january sales coming along hopefully he can pick up a few players.Its a bit rich utd fans on this bleating about their team, they havent done nothing yet. Arsenal have a good chance .Personally i think milan of juventus will win.Maybe even chelsea which i would hate as it would be wrong for football.Sooner or later that crook obramovich will leave these shores.I see hes been investigated back in russia as he made all his money in dodgy oil deals back in the 90's.Chelsea arent exactly a perfect role model for any youngster trying to make a break in england.
I may be liverpool biased but some UTD fans still live in the dark ages when they think there invincible, maybe ye were a few years but not now.Liverpool are a young team coming through so give us a chance.

The Muppet

I don;t think Liverpool will go any further in the competition either. They have improved under Benitz but they are still have too inconsistant and some of their players are not up to the standard required to progress any further.

Man U went out to a bad offside decision V eventual winners Porto last year and the defence was fooked after Ferdinands ban. With Ferdinand back and the new signings United are definitely a stronger team this year . I,m not sure they are strong enough to win but I would fancy them to go further than Liverpool all things being equal.

PHB

When is the draw being made?

A Dub in Glasgo

17th December

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

I don;t think Liverpool will go any further in the competition either. They have improved under Benitz but they are still have too inconsistant and some of their players are not up to the standard required to progress any further.

Man U went out to a bad offside decision V eventual winners Porto last year and the defence was fooked after Ferdinands ban. With Ferdinand back and the new signings United are definitely a stronger team this year . I,m not sure they are strong enough to win but I would fancy them to go further than Liverpool all things being equal.

Im not saying they definately will, but its a bit rich some Utd fans coming on claiming Liverpool have no chance of going further than the last 16 when they could draw someone like Lyon and very easily go through. And at the same time these United fans think they have a chance of winning the competition when they have one or two frailties themselves.

It comes down to the draw I think, Liverpool arent the best team in Europe. I dont think they will beat someone like AC Milan or Juve. But at the same time Im not sure United or even Arsenal would be able to.

Drag00n79

PHB wrote:

When is the draw being made?

Next Friday at 11am.

Pigman II

Personally, I'll be putting my money on Juventus. When you see any team putting together a long string for 2-0's (or in their case 1-0's) it's a definite alarm bell that the team are comfortably progressing and saving something for the big occasion.

Re the English teams I reckon Chelsea should have the best chance but I forsee them getting eliminated on a dodgy reffing decision (couldn't give a toss about ManU or Mourinho but I'm a great believer in Karma you see). Arsenal will be knocked out in the next round. Liverpool in the QF's and ManU in the semis.

The Muppet

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Im not saying they definately will, but its a bit rich some Utd fans coming on claiming Liverpool have no chance of going further than the last 16 when they could draw someone like Lyon and very easily go through. .

Its got nothing to do with me being a United Fan. Liverpool are too inconsistant and rely too much on Gerrard . At this stage of the competition they will be meeting the better teams who will have done their homework and I believe Liverpool are very predictable and so make it easy for opposing managers to employ tactics to beat them.

I don't think United are good enough to win it either but as I said all things being equal I would expect them to get further than Liverpool.

smemon

galwaydude wrote:

I may be liverpool biased but some UTD fans still live in the dark ages when they think there invincible, maybe ye were a few years but not now.

hang on a second, a LIVERPOOL supporter is accusing MANU supporters of living in the dark ages???

manu aren't invincible, never were but their reign of dominance isn't over. theyve yet to miss out on the premiership for 2 seasons, always bouncing back after conceding the title, if utd dont win it this year, yes, the grip is starting to loosen. but now, with the 1st team players we have we're still a match for the best.

again to reinforce my earlier points, liverpool's inconsistency hasnt gone away as was proved yesterday. perhaps its because im a manufan but i just cant see liverpool playing and beating the likes of madrid, barca, milan's, juve etc... one after the other. ANY of the other 3 english clubs wouldnt surprise me.