everyone is in such a rush these days!!

dahamsta

Cactus Col wrote:

Drivers who speed make me sick, I only hope that if they crash they only hurt themselves.

Speed Kills. It has to be true, I saw it on teh telly. :rolleyes:

Bad driving kills. Gullible people just annoy.

adam

D!ve^Bomb!

dahamsta wrote:

Speed Kills. It has to be true, I saw it on teh telly. :rolleyes:


adam

are you really that stupid.. :rolleyes:

seamus

newband wrote:

I think the majority of people here who disaggree with me here are the same as the person behind me and are willing to flash people just because they are not going as fast as they would like. Well i have news for you people.. YOU ARE THE UNSAFE DRIVERS.. i have never once flashed anyone who was going slower then i would have liked.. i remain patient and and pass them when it is safe to do so. I see flashing someone as a cause of road rage and it is completely ponintless and childish.

I think you're confusing proper procedure with anyone telling you that you're wrong. Not once has anyone said that you should have increased your speed, or otherwise put yourself in any risk to allow him to pass.
I don't flash people to get them to increase their speed. I flash them to let them know that, yes, I would like to overtake you, but your staying in the overtaking lane despite there being no traffic in the left hand lane, is preventing me from doing that.
Flashing someone alone isn't an aggressive tactic. It has a lot to do with the manner in which the flashing is done, and how the following driver is conduting themselves.
Outside of Dublin, flashing is commonplace and the norm pretty much. I remember coming up behind a van on the M7 once (I was in a rental car) flashed it, it moved aside, and I continued on. About 10 miles later, I noticed it was being driven by two uniformed Gardai. I think if it was construed as an aggressive tactic, I'd be in trouble, no?

I also think that you've missed out on dahamsta's point.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

unkel

merc wrote:

I think that why alot of drivers end up hogging lanes. The annoying fukers never use their mirrors enough to realise there is a car coming up behind them

It took me a long time to realise these people are actually not at all agressive roadraged feckers that begrudge me to overtake them. They're just ignorant and incompetent

This behaviour is the norm in Ireland. It's the exception anywhere else in Europe I have ever driven

dahamsta

seamus wrote:

I also think that you've missed out on dahamsta's point.

Look at the Location field in his profile, or of course his sig. He's obviously twin cam girl's SO...

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=206818

more than 86 per cent of motorists described themselves as excellent, good or very good drivers. Fewer than 11 per cent rate themselves as average drivers, and only 0.6 per cent said they were poor drivers.

If you do the maths then roughly half of the drivers who describe themselves as excellent / very good / good drivers are in reality worse than average. And that's Irish average, where many drivers don't use indicators when changing lanes or on roundabouts (or use the wrong indicator !) or still think it's ok to go slower in the "fast lane" than cars to their left because they will be turning right in three junctions time. In the UK and Germany people travelling over the speed limit have been done for obstruction because they did not pull in out of the way of someone travelling faster..

At least 1/5 of Irish drivers have not passed their test, and I reckon the proportion on boards is higher due to ages. Only 0.6% of drivers admit to being poor drivers. I'll say that again despite all evidence to the contary only 0.6% reckon they are poor drivers. It would be all so funny if motorists wern't the leading cause of preventable death for the 15-40 age group.

Seth Brundle

newband wrote:

OMG, get over it.. this isn't spain ffs.. and what's that shíte about not overtaking safely .. you're saying that i wasn't at the safe enough speed to pass cars.. i was driving within the speed limit ffs.. are you suggesting that i should speed.. is that safer or somethin?? i think you really need to cop on to yourself tbh..

I can really see the hipocrisy on this forum now.. i have mentioned multiple times that i have a provisional licence on this forum and that i use the m50 on a daily basis.. and not once until this thread has anyone questioned that :rolleyes:

I think people really need to examine what they have said here.. i don't think people really understand the stupidity level that they hold..

I started to overtake cars, i stayed within the speed limit to do so.. i am not obliged to speed just to make way for people behind me.. When i started to overtake, the outer lane was empty, during the time at which i was overtaking, the astra came up behind me(this proves how fast he was going considering i didn't see him when i started to overtake)..

After a short time, he flashed his lights at me.. i stuck to the speed limit and i kept going, there was not enough space to my left to move into the inner lane.. I AM NOT going to risk my life changing lanes dangerously to make way for someone behind me.. nor am i obliged to!! I stayed within the speed limit.. I AM NOT going to risk my own life to make way for someone behind me, i feel that people should have patience and realise that there is a speed limit and learn to obey it..

I think the majority of people here who disaggree with me here are the same as the person behind me and are willing to flash people just because they are not going as fast as they would like. Well i have news for you people.. YOU ARE THE UNSAFE DRIVERS.. i have never once flashed anyone who was going slower then i would have liked.. i remain patient and and pass them when it is safe to do so. I see flashing someone as a cause of road rage and it is completely ponintless and childish.

Again, i say, if this is the mentality of irish drivers then i am in no way surprised by the amount of deaths on the roads in this country.. and now i know why.

This is getting tiring!
1. a number of people have in fact said that you should not have been on the motorway as you are not a qualified driver - you turned round and said that you were not going to change your habit!
2. you had said that the driver of the astra was behind you before you moved into the overtaking lane. He also had opportunity to overtake you. You also said that you were then in front of him for a few minutes. You are now changing your story to one where he suddenly zoomed up behind you. Now he was speeding really fast so you didn't see him until you were blocking him.
3. Passing another car is very dangerous as you cannot be sure that they know you are beside them and they could easily move into your lane crashing into you. Hence, it is possibly better to pass the cars as quickly as possible. Staring at your speedo and ensuring that you are not exceeding the speed limit should not be your priority at during this manouvre! Illegal or not and irrespective of the car 'speeding up behind you' you would have been better off passing the cars as quickly as possible, and when finished passing then move into the driving lane once again.
4. if you think you are safe then you are not. Forget about other drivers for a minute. You do not have the experience to be safe. You do not have the skills to be safe. You have been driving for no more than two years as you are on your 1st prov. Don't kid yourself. Speeding/flashing or anything else does not make one an unsafe driver. Anyway, speed does not kill - inappropriate speed does!
5. You speak of how you remain patient etc and about road rage. You don't suffer from it because you aren't the being blocked by a law breaking motorist who shouldn't be there. If the astra driver was suffering from road rage (I don't think they were - I suspect they were just signalling to you that there were other people on the road!) then you caused it!

RainyDay

Bogger77 wrote:

Simply put, you were not going at a fast enuf speed to safely pass the cars in front without causing an obstruction, a dif of 5 miles/hour is not enough. You are allowed to go over the speed limit by a reasonable amount (normally quoted at 10mph, in spain it's 25kph iirc), pass the cars safely, come back to the driving lane, and slow back to the limit, of course making sure you don't cause people behind you to have to brake.

Please quote your source for this - I've never heard of any such 'permission' to break the speed limit in such circumstances (or any circumstances).

The M50 is not a typical motorway. First all, on the Ballinteer to Tallaght stretch, the sharpness of the bends exceed the normal international motorway standards. [It is quite worrying that many posters on this thread who seem to travel that route regularly have failed to notice this]. That is why the limit on that stretch is 60 mph.

Also, the sheer volume of traffic on the M50 means that normal standards for the overtaking lane just don't apply. To change lanes after every overtaking would be impractical & quite dangerous. When motorway traffic is that heavy, it makes no sense to be jumping between lanes every few yards.

If the traffic is light, then I'll certainly pull into the inside lane where possible, but I'm not going to go out of my way to accomodate some boy racer in a hurry. I've often been flashed from behind when I am in the outside lane for a good reason, e.g. getting ready to overtake or to avoid traffic coming onto the motorway via the on-ramp. In such circumstances, I'd ignore the guy behind.

I wonder if those who castigate newband for not allowing the guy behind to break the law take the same attitude to other forms of law-breaking? If you spot a guy mugging your granny, do you step to one side to give him more room? If you spot a guy coming out of your house wearing a stripey jumper and carrying a bag marked 'swag', do you step to one side to let him through?

aodh_rua

seamus wrote:

You move over because that's the law.

The law? If you are doing the regulation speed limit and you're over-taking I think the law will be pretty happy with your driving. There's no law that says get out of the way for drivers who want to break the limit.

D!ve^Bomb!

merc wrote:

Well I have been on the road neigh on 15 years.... I take into account all of the above that you mention but thats not to say I wont be unlucky one day.
Yes it is a moronic/stupid thing to be at but people who hog lanes tend to annoy the bollix out of me. Dont get me wrong.. people who are holding me up while over taking..grand.. but people who refuse to pull back in... annoying. In saying that I very rarely do it as I am never in that much of a hurry anywhere.. !

Oh well that's ok then.. if you only 'rarely' do it :rolleyes:

merc wrote:

but I hate people who hold up lanes. And its not that I am speeding either.. which makes the annoying factor that tad greater. I dont adbvocate speeding or careless driving.. but I do thing drivers in Ireland are the most unaware bunch I have ever come across.!

Unaware enough to tailgate?:rolleyes:

D!ve^Bomb!

kbannon wrote:

This is getting tiring!
1. a number of people have in fact said that you should not have been on the motorway as you are not a qualified driver - you turned round and said that you were not going to change your habit!
2. you had said that the driver of the astra was behind you before you moved into the overtaking lane. He also had opportunity to overtake you. You also said that you were then in front of him for a few minutes. You are now changing your story to one where he suddenly zoomed up behind you. Now he was speeding really fast so you didn't see him until you were blocking him.
3. Passing another car is very dangerous as you cannot be sure that they know you are beside them and they could easily move into your lane crashing into you. Hence, it is possibly better to pass the cars as quickly as possible. Staring at your speedo and ensuring that you are not exceeding the speed limit should not be your priority at during this manouvre! Illegal or not and irrespective of the car 'speeding up behind you' you would have been better off passing the cars as quickly as possible, and when finished passing then move into the driving lane once again.
4. if you think you are safe then you are not. Forget about other drivers for a minute. You do not have the experience to be safe. You do not have the skills to be safe. You have been driving for no more than two years as you are on your 1st prov. Don't kid yourself. Speeding/flashing or anything else does not make one an unsafe driver. Anyway, speed does not kill - inappropriate speed does!
5. You speak of how you remain patient etc and about road rage. You don't suffer from it because you aren't the being blocked by a law breaking motorist who shouldn't be there. If the astra driver was suffering from road rage (I don't think they were - I suspect they were just signalling to you that there were other people on the road!) then you caused it!

i was not staring at the speedometer, i looked once or twice to monitor my speed, exactly what speed is 'inappropriate' in this case? And if i should assume that the cars i am passing don't know i am there and hence could possibly crash into me.. then is it not they who are the inexperienced driver if they are incapable to check their mirrors and blind spots?

And no i am not going to change my habit, i live in tallaght, i work in blanch.. i will use the m50 to get to work.. i don't count myself as an amazing driver, i also make mistakes just like EVERY other driver.. but i do consider myself a safe driver..

is_that_so

seamus wrote:

I suggest you go back and read my post, and not jump to conclusions. People who hog the overtaking lane are morons. When I come up behind someone in the overtaking lane, and I see that they have ample room to move in, I keep my distance and give one, maybe two flashes of the lights (flashing your lights on a bike isn't as easy as in the car). I give them a good period of time, and if I see no sign of them moving I flash again.

For the record, I don't actually think that every other driver is a moron, but I drive with the assumption that every other driver on the road is a complete idiot, and as such is liable to do completely idiotic things. This helps me be prepared and serves as a reminder to be cautious (when I say it to myself), as someone's else's slight mistake or stupid manouver can cost me my life.

Yes I had another look at it but ur comments here are a far better clarification of your position and I agree with you on almost all of it, with the exception of flashing. It is rude even if the driver in front has no notions of rules of road.

I hope that the new promised Traffic Corps will look at this kind of behaviour as well - e.g. 60 mph in overtaking lane on M-Way. After all "Not making progress" is almost a guaranteed fail in the drving test.

seamus

RainyDay wrote:

Please quote your source for this - I've never heard of any such 'permission' to break the speed limit in such circumstances (or any circumstances).

There's no specific permission, but it's considered the lesser risk. That is, it's safer to break the limit and complete the manouver swiftly, rather than hold the speed limit and take ages to complete the manouver.

If you are doing the regulation speed limit and you're over-taking I think the law will be pretty happy with your driving. There's no law that says get out of the way for drivers who want to break the limit.

*sigh*
Forget the *if you're overtaking* bit. If you're not overtaking, you're legally obliged to move over and make way. The speed the other vehicle wishes to do is none of your concern.

Alun

RainyDay wrote:

The M50 is not a typical motorway. First all, on the Ballinteer to Tallaght stretch, the sharpness of the bends exceed the normal international motorway standards. [It is quite worrying that many posters on this thread who seem to travel that route regularly have failed to notice this]. That is why the limit on that stretch is 60 mph.

Do you have a source for this? I mean, seriously, anyone who can't drive round those gentle curves (I hesitate to raise them to the status of a 'bend'!) at 70mph, doesn't deserve to be in the possession of a driving licence. Heck, I've even seen people brake and slow down to 50mph for them

There are motorways in Germany (where I lived for 13 years incidentally) with much sharper bends than that with (effectively) no speed limit at all.

RainyDay

seamus wrote:

There's no specific permission, but it's considered the lesser risk. That is, it's safer to break the limit and complete the manouver swiftly, rather than hold the speed limit and take ages to complete the manouver.

Hold yer horses a minute - What risk are you referring to? We're talking about overtaking on a motorway here - not overtaking on the opposite side of the road. What risk is incurred when travelling in the fast lane at the speed limit to overtake somebody on the inside lane? It appears that you don't understand much about motorway driving.

seamus wrote:

*sigh*
Forget the *if you're overtaking* bit. If you're not overtaking, you're legally obliged to move over and make way. The speed the other vehicle wishes to do is none of your concern.

And who put you in charge of what concerns me? I'll decide what concerns me, not you. As it happens, I wouldn't hog the outside lane unnecessarily, but there are times when I will sit in the outside lane, as explained in my earlier post. Also, when travelling on the M50 during rush hour, it is somewhat ludicrous to even talk about the 'overtaking lane' - there are two lanes, both of which are full of traffic.

Alun wrote:

Do you have a source for this? I mean, seriously, anyone who can't drive round those gentle curves (I hesitate to raise them to the status of a 'bend'!) at 70mph, doesn't deserve to be in the possession of a driving licence.

I spoke to the Roads dept at Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown Co Council at that time that the Ballinteer stretch opened. Of course you 'can' drive this stretch at 70 mph. You can also drive it at 80 mph, 90 mph or 100 mph - and you probably won't have any problems. However, if you have a tyre blowout, you might have a problem. If I have a tyre blowout and I'm driving in front of you, you might have a problem. If I crash through the barrier from the opposite carriageway as happened in Finglas a couple of weeks ago, you might have a problem. It's all about visibility, braking time, reaction time - hence the 60 mph limit.

What's the big problem with 60 mph anyway. Is the 30 seconds or so that you'll save by driving at 70 mph really that important?

mackerski

Bogger77 wrote:

The Roundabout at the m1/M50 junction is after the end of motorway restrictions, check the next time you pass through.

No it isn't - check it yourself. The end/start of Motorway signs (depending on direction) are just on the M50-side of the roundabout where the N32 starts. The roundabout has to be under Motorway restrictions, as does the road leading to it from the N32. Any road that leads inescapably to a Motorway must itself be classified as a Motorway.

That the junction is a roundabout lacks foresight, but has international precedent, since the M50 effectively terminates at the roundabout (leaving aside the spur to the N32). Planning it with lights from the word go was dopey, though.

Dermot

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

D!ve^Bomb!

merc wrote:

Now newband.. I have no desire to get all petty with you. With all respects I have already stated that what I do every now and then is foolsih. Therfore your attempt to highlight this is futile.

The unawre enough to tail gate comment is stupid considering I have stated I do it. FUlly aware :rolleyes:

The simple fact of the matter is from what every one has read is that you held up some guy who wanted to do more than the speed limit. By staying in the fast/overtaking lane.

It fairly obvious you did this as it would take an utter ignorant prick to flash some one who was "over taking cars" with the desire for them to pull in and let them past... given the car in front has no where to pull into ...as they are over taking.

In all honesty there is no real proof to anything that happened but I think the gist of most of the posts here would be that.. you are not the law.. you don't get to "hold" up people speeding. Let them meet an early end if they wish to speed. Perhaps they will over take you on a corner some day and hit a tanker head on. You can smile to yourself then.

Its not your issue and you will drive happier if you get of your moral high horse. Some day you might piss off the wromg driver and he will follow you home or where ever and give you an awful kicking. CHances are slim but people have been stabbed to death in england for things like that. There are some nutters out there!

right back at ya

Alun

RainyDay wrote:

However, if you have a tyre blowout, you might have a problem. If I have a tyre blowout and I'm driving in front of you, you might have a problem. If I crash through the barrier from the opposite carriageway as happened in Finglas a couple of weeks ago, you might have a problem. It's all about visibility, braking time, reaction time - hence the 60 mph limit.

And you're seriously suggesting that having a 60mph limit instead of a 70mph limit on that stretch is going to make a jot of difference in that respect?

is_that_so

merc wrote:

The unawre enough to tail gate comment is stupid considering I have stated I do it. FUlly aware :rolleyes:

Very bold that. It reminds me of a salutary tale from Germany. You can read about it here.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,588-1006376,00.html

(On appeal it was reduced to a 12 month suspended sentence, he lost his licence for 12 months and was fined €12,000.)

The moral here is you have no idea what effect you are having on the driver in front of you by that kind of behaviour. Any one of us is capable of driving well on an empty M-way. On our "motorways" we don't have the luxury of barriers. Witness the M50 and M1 accidents in the last few months.
My own philosophy on driving is that I try to get from A to B without any damage to myself or anyone else. This includes legal restrictions and my sanity .

RainyDay

Alun wrote:

And you're seriously suggesting that having a 60mph limit instead of a 70mph limit on that stretch is going to make a jot of difference in that respect?

Does 23 metres (75 feet or 24 car lengths) count as a 'jot'? That's the difference between the stopping distance at 70 mph and the stopping distance at 60 mph. It really is quite disturbing that any driver wouldn't be very conscious of this difference.

D!ve^Bomb!

merc wrote:

The simple fact of the matter is from what every one has read is that you held up some guy who wanted to do more than the speed limit. By staying in the fast/overtaking lane.

It fairly obvious you did this as it would take an utter ignorant prick to flash some one who was "over taking cars" with the desire for them to pull in and let them past... given the car in front has no where to pull into ...as they are over taking!

You'd be surprised by the amount of ignorant prick drivers out there.. tailgaters are among the biggest ignorant pricks :rolleyes:

merc wrote:

In all honesty there is no real proof to anything that happened but I think the gist of most of the posts here would be that.. you are not the law.. you don't get to "hold" up people speeding. Let them meet an early end if they wish to speed. Perhaps they will over take you on a corner some day and hit a tanker head on. You can smile to yourself then.

Its not your issue and you will drive happier if you get of your moral high horse. Some day you might piss off the wromg driver and he will follow you home or where ever and give you an awful kicking. CHances are slim but people have been stabbed to death in england for things like that. There are some nutters out there!

Have you not read ANY of my posts.. i COULDN'T move over... do you know that word,, say it with me.. COULDN'T?

BabyEater

Does 23 metres (75 feet or 24 car lengths)

I dont think 23 meters equates to 24 car lengths. More like 6 car lenghts.
Also I dont like these statistics as it is more to do with the car you drive for example my 106 would take longer to stop at 60 than my bmw 318 would take to stop at 70.

RainyDay

BabyEater wrote:

I dont think 23 meters equates to 24 car lengths. More like 6 car lenghts.

Correct - my apologies. The difference is six car lengths. It may not seem a lot, but it may mean the difference between life & death as you come around one of those gentle bends.

BabyEater wrote:

Also I dont like these statistics as it is more to do with the car you drive for example my 106 would take longer to stop at 60 than my bmw 318 would take to stop at 70.

The comparison between your two cars is completely irrelevant. You might as well compare apples & oranges. The real question is how much longer will it take you to stop at 70 mph compared to 60 mph in your 106, or how much longer will it take you to stop at 70 mph compared to 60 mph in your 318. Regardless of which car you are in, your stopping distance increases significantly as your speed increases.

BabyEater

but since i could stop quicker in my 318 I would be safer breaking the speed limit at 70 than doing the speed limit at 60 in my 106, not saying i would tho. I do understand tho that my stopping distance does increase the quicker i go tho.

RainyDay

BabyEater wrote:

but since i could stop quicker in my 318 I would be safer breaking the speed limit at 70 than doing the speed limit at 60 in my 106,

But the real point is that you'd be safest doing 60 mph in your 318.

Alun

RainyDay wrote:

But the real point is that you'd be safest doing 60 mph in your 318.

But you'd be even safer doing 10mph?

The issue here is not whether your stopping distance at 60mph is less than that at 70mph, that much is clear to me, despite your suggestion to the contrary. What is relevant is whether on this particular section of road the sight lines round these "bends" are such that any stationary obstacle on the road would be visible within the potential stopping distance at a given speed.

So if they are such that you can always see at least 96 metres (the supposed total stopping distance at 70mph) ahead then there is no reason to restrict the maximum speed to less than 70mph.

Now, maybe those clever Traffic Engineers at DLRCOCO have plugged all the figures into some computer model and come up with a suggested speed limit of 60mph, or maybe they've just plucked the figures from a hat, I don't know, but to me the 60mph speed limit there seems unnecessary. Add to that that it starts waaay before the curvy bit just before Ballinteer, where there isn't a bend in sight.

seamus

RainyDay wrote:

Hold yer horses a minute - What risk are you referring to? We're talking about overtaking on a motorway here - not overtaking on the opposite side of the road. What risk is incurred when travelling in the fast lane at the speed limit to overtake somebody on the inside lane? It appears that you don't understand much about motorway driving.

The same principles apply, whether it's a motorway or a single lane road. The overtaking lane is not for cruising in, unless the traffic is queued. Simple as that. By not completing the manouver swiftly, you may be holding up the traffic behind you. That's the problem. If your vehicle can't safely go over a certain speed or can't accelerate quickly, that's OK, the motorway allows for that. I understand motorway driving all too well. Overtaking slowly is likely to make some moron behind you do something stupid like attempt to undertake you and immediately overtake the guy you're about to overtake. I had some gob****e try that this evening (I won't go into it here).

And who put you in charge of what concerns me? I'll decide what concerns me, not you.

Are you a Garda? I'll assume not, which makes other people's speed none of your concern. Your job is not to police other drivers. Other drivers actions are indeed your concern, but trying to prevent them from breaking the law is none of your business, and is dangerous. Any Garda will agree with me on that. "**** him, he's already going fast enough, I'm not getting out of his way", is not your call to make.

mike65

Okay kids, will you keep the noise down please?!

Less attitude from some of you will keep this thread open longer and will keep some from a weeks ban.

Mike.