The threat from Sky sponsored Soccer

DUB

siting in the pub last night the place was divided, half the pub watching liverpool and the the other half watching manchester, the liverpool brigade were hopping about the place at the last minute goal as if ireland had just won the world cup or something. newstalk 106 [local dublin radio station] divote a huge chunk of its sports coverage to talking to english people about the english premier league, or scttish people about the scottish premier league. there is a big gap in the GAA calender televisionwise and i think something needs to be done because people are so bored during the off season they act as if they have some connection with english/scottish football clubs, what sense does that make? they jump up and down because a foreign cities soccer club scores a goal?!?! ha? have i missed something? yet more then half of them in the pub last night i would say couldnt name you one player on the dublin hurling panel. sad. why do rte have NO GAA club coverage? instead our TV licence money goes to the english premier league, and we are subjected to jaysis soccer on saturdays, sundays, mondays, tuesdays and wednesdays for 8 or 9 months of the year, but there will be 1 or 2 dublin* football matches shown live a year and probably no dublin* hurling matches!!!!! thats not going to win over people who are interested in sport but not interested enough to go to club matches. TV is a powerful tool, just look at the number of american expressions that are making the swap over thanks to the ammount of american sitcoms that we get, it is powerful enough to get people who arent interested in sport talking about it, formula one for example, total cack but people get interested through tv. i think the GAA needs to seriously look at the number of hours of Soccer coverage gets v GAA coverage on a year round basis. If necessary i think a radical restructureing of the club and county championships might be needed before there is a whole generation who think manchester is a part of dublin, or is it too late? [by the way i know TG4 do great club coverage but if it wasnt for them we would probably still have none!] wouldnt it be a sad if hurling died at the expense of Sky sponsored english football millionaires?


* insert your own county here, unless they do exceptionally well.

dee mm

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Imposter

I don't think Club matches, with the exception of the all-ireland club championships, would have enough of an audience. Anyone who wants to see the matches can go and the quality is not high enough imo for television coverage. Showing some league matches might be an idea as would some of the Sigerson or Fitzgibbon Cup matches. TG4 seem to be doing a good enough job of that at the moment.

I don't see what more can be done tbh. Winter GAA is generally of a poor enough of a standard compared to summer GAA as the players are better/fitter and the weather is more conducive to more free flowing and fast play. Even socer has a pretty quiet patch in the summer (seeing as most don't follow the eircom league) so I don't see anything wrong with the GAA having one.

DUB

fair enough ther is nothing wrong with havin an off season but some countys are knocked out by june and dont have another game till feburary ... 7 months is a long gap!

the munster club hurling gets a crowd of around 20,000 there is interest in the club game, the wouldnt have to necessarily show too many live games but a highlight programme of some sort is surely viable?

Trojan

Try watching rugby, it's more entertaining than soccer, and importantly, you can watch your local teams at the highest levels of European competition.

DUB

i do watch rugby!

there are parallels to be drawn actually, the european cup can be likened to the inter-county competition, in that it is the attention/tv grabbing competition, but how are the clubs copeing with the increased interest in this competition? i hear at a lot of ail games there be two men and a dog these days? or is this an exageration?

Trojan

I don't know, I don't go to many AIL games...

DUB

does it not worry you that the grass roots of the game are being undermined by the extra provincial matches?

kilkennycat2004

DUB wrote:

the munster club hurling gets a crowd of around 20,000 there is interest in the club game, the wouldnt have to necessarily show too many live games but a highlight programme of some sort is surely viable?

I was at the munster & leinster club hurling finals & both had crowds of about 5 to 6 thousand. Last Sunday's munster club football final was short of one thousand. The Railway cup hurling final had 400.
Us die hards go but in the main the GAA season is from February to October & even then the pub brigade only like to know about the GAA championship.

Flukey

Dub, Gaelic sports are very strong here and have got stronger in recent years. Other sports are not a threat. As sports fans, we love all sports, so many of those watching the soccer games throughout the winter will still be on the terraces and stands of the GAA grounds around the country every summer. The only games the GAA have to worry about are their own. By the looks of things, they are not doing a bad job in competing, while there is a lot of work to be done to promote some of the games in some parts of the country. Still, even though there are weak areas, they are still the biggest sports in the country and there is nothing like being at a big game on a summer Sunday afternoon. We can enjoy our soccer and rugby to the full and that still won't impact on our love of the games we follow through the summer months.

DUB

kilkennycat2004 wrote:

I was at the munster & leinster club hurling finals & both had crowds of about 5 to 6 thousand.

sorry, i ment the cork hurling club final. still proves there is an interest. surely there is a market for the league to be covered better?

Waylander

I am a soccer fan, I support Man United. I do not support them because there is no GAA on during the winter. It is possible to support more then one team sport, I will pretty much watch any sport. I have no problem with you not liking soccer Dub, but i do have a problem with you looking down your nose at me because I support a team from a different city. The reason I started to support that team is because they had Moran, Mc Grath and Stapleton when I was younger. As a club they pretty much always have a couple of Irish players, as do most of the English clubs.

DUB

Eh that last statement is simply not true. Very few Premier league clubs have Irish players in their first team.

I have nothing against Soccer, like you say it's possible to support more then one team, true. I support Dublin, Leinster and Ireland. The connection is i am from all those places. My point is that the GAA should try and spread the season out more to compete with peoples and TV's free time in the winter.

No I don't see the logic in supporting a foreign city's sporting club. I won't apologise for that. That doesn't mean I'm looking down my nose, it just means I don't get it.. In my opinion cheering on a foreign cities 'sporting' club [plc?] is a hollow experience. Fine its a bit of a laugh down the pub but don't try and convince me your as big a fan as someone who grew up going to old Trafford every second weekend. What pride can you possibly feel in Manchester United's achievements? They have no loyalty to us and will soon enough have no Irish players in their first team, possibly never again. They don't care about us, so why should you spend your time and effort caring about them? Having Irish players means nothing to them let alone English players. Are you happy about that or are you one of these I don't care where the players comes from types so long as the club does well? Lucky then you've 'chosen' a club, randomly of course, that will always be more or less in the top three or four clubs in England isn't it? What about Leeds, they've a great tradition of paddies plus have a lot of Irish youngfellas coming through, why don't I see hardly anyone supporting them anymore? Funny really, where are all those Blackburn tops gone from ten years ago? I suppose those people have now 'changed' their support to Chelsea, yea? Real honest sporting pride and passion yea? But no one is allowed cast dispersions, oh no, every Chelsea fan will claim of course that they've supposrted Chelsea through thick and thin no doubt, since the hoddle era, no better then that since childhood, the tears and beer will flow all over the country i suppose when they celibrate their hollow victory thanks to their sugar daddy come may, but no one is allowed snigger at the farce because Dunphy and Giles says they're the best yea, everone will ignore the fact that they have spent 200 million (!!!) on winning the league.

Support Man yoo by all means if you like but my point is that it is such a shame that people, will blow 60 euro for a multi-national global brand of a sporting organisation for their latest 'Rooney' jersey when he gets paid three times that every second and blows it on shaggin grannies, and our local sporting clubs and sporting organisations could really do with either your time or money.

Waylander

You most certainly are looking down your nose4 at anyone who disagrees with you on this. As I say I am a United fan, and I gave my reason why. Whern I began supporting them they had not won the league in almost twenty years, so it was an obvious decision to support the most successful team, despite the fact Liverpool were clearing up in England and Europe. As for very few clubs having Irish players, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Birmingham, Everton, Man City, Charlton, Southampton, Spurs, Newcastle, Blackburn and Boro all have Irish players in their first team squad. So I guess my statement was true. Virtually every club also has Irish youths in their set up too. This is over half teh premiership, and adds up to more than "very few". As regards your point that United wiil very soon have no Irish in their team, you seem to be forgetting John O Shea, and Roy is not going anywhere yet! I know the clubs do not buy these players because they are Irish, but that does not negate the fact that they are Irish. For the record I do consider myself as much a fan of united as any other man, but I see no reason why I should justify this to a condescending, patronising pratt like yourself, who just filled in bullsh*t in your last post without checking any of it out.

Flukey

I think it is a bit ridiculous supporting a team that you have no connection with. As you said yourself Waylander, there are Irish players in many teams. It is a false loyalty that most people have. I watch Premiership games, I take a big interest in it, just as much as you do, but I don't support any one club. As was said, all those Blackburn fans from 1995 have disappeared now. If Chelsea or Man U etc. were relegated, you'd see a major drop in their support too. There is no more reason for you to support Manchester United than there is for you to support Carlisle United, currently in the Conference. They have Irish players too, but not many people here support them. Most fans of English soccer teams support teams in the Premiership and not ones in any of the other divisions or leagues. Many will give the reasons like you have, but then as I said you could just as easily support Carlisle for the same reason.

Others, when asked why they support a particular club, say "Because they are a good team!" which is not a reason. Watch English soccer by all means and enjoy the games, like I do, but there is no reason for you to support any particular club any more than any other and if you want to support one with Irish players, support a team like Carlisle.

No one is looking down on you. As I said, I watch and enjoy English soccer just as much as you do, but that can all be done without supporting any team. You should not choose a team, true supporters of sport don't do that. We are Irish, so we support Ireland, not by choice though. They are our team. I am from Dublin, so I'd support Dublin. If you are a member of your local club, of whatever sport, you support them. If you are "choosing" to support some arbitrary team under some reason like "they are a good team" or "they have Irish players" etc. then your support of that team is built on a falsehood. You support a team because they are your team, not by choice. It doesn't matter how good or bad they are or who plays for them etc. So watch and enjoy English soccer as much as you like but don't choose to support any one team. True sports fans don't. They just watch and enjoy whatever sport it is. Often it is actually better when you are neutral.

Waylander

Actually Flukey there is a world of difference between Carlisle and Man United, and if you cannot see that then I am not sure I can explain it to you. First and foremost is the fact that Uniteds Irish players tend to be International players, most of whom I have followed or monitored for their entire careers. The guys who play for Carlisle are just regular guys and I would not know most of them. Also there is a marginal difference in quality between United and Carlisle. There will always be band wagon hoppers in any sport, there is nothing that can really be done about that, however I know people who are Forest, QPR and Leeds ( amongst others), what about these guys. Also how f*cking dare you to presume to tell me what "true sports fans" behave like. I have been a sports fan for over 20 years, and you may not think you are being patronising, but trust me that is the way it comes across. How can you say noone is looking down on anyone, and then instruct me in the behaviour of a true sports fan?

A very high percentage of the male Irish population under the age of 40 are fans of specific clubs in England, are you going to tell me that you two are in the right here, and all these people are wrong? Flukey you say in your post that it is better to be a neutural, why do you support a GAA team then, surely this is a contradiction. By the way I also follow American Football, I do not suppose I will ever get your approval for supporting a team in this sport? Premiership \ old first division soccer is what we grew up with over here, it is where the vast majority of our International players ply their trade. Also there is no equivalent, of a comparable standard over here, Eircom league soccer is simply, not as skilful, and I personally do not enjoy it as much as Premiership soccer. I have been watching the English league for over 20 years, and you two now try to tell me I have no rights to support a team from it? You will forgive for thinking you are talking out your arses on this point.

Big Ears

'The threat from Sky sponsored Soccer'.................im sorry but there is no threat whatsoever to GAA , the only harmful thing SKY sponsored soccer does is take people away from watching our national league (which I try to follow , but don't have a local team in the EL) .

I support : Tipperary , Munster and Ireland , and I support and play for my local soccer team , but I also support Newcastle United F.C. ,by choice . Why ?..........the attacking football they play , the highs and lows of being able to match any team worldwide on their day but often get turned over by minnows , I find them extremely exciting to follow . I too detest people supporting clubs because they are good , but I feel I have a valid reason to support Newcastle .

The GAA team I support and play for is not the one from the community I live in but the one where I have most my friends , and went to school(the community I feel part of) that is why its not mentioned above .

therecklessone

DUB wrote:

there is a big gap in the GAA calender televisionwise and i think something needs to be done because people are so bored during the off season they act as if they have some connection with english/scottish football clubs, what sense does that make? they jump up and down because a foreign cities soccer club scores a goal?!?! ha? have i missed something? yet more then half of them in the pub last night i would say couldnt name you one player on the dublin hurling panel. sad.

What about people like me who have little interest in GAA? I suppose you've a problem with that as well?

I support an English club (Spurs, who are far from successful). And I keep an eye on developments at Barcelona and Juventus. Oh, and I'll be heading into Tolka Park this week to pick up a season ticket for Shelbourne. I'm a soccer fan, and I make no bones about that. Nor should I have to explain why I choose to support a "foreign" team when I could be freezing my nuts off in Parnell Park watching club football in December.

People need to drop the holier than thou attitude when it comes to sport in this country. So what if I choose to spend my €60 on a football jersey from a club based in the UK? Do you have a problem with people buying CDs by non-Irish bands?

Flukey

Why do I support Dublin? Because I am from Dublin, so I am not neutral there and so there is no contradiction! Having said that, I go to a lot of GAA matches in which Dublin are not playing. I am from Ireland so I support Ireland in various sports. However, I am not from Manchester or Clare or Newcastle or Liverpool or Sweden or Barcelona or Down or Brazil etc. But I can still watch those teams playing and enjoy their sports. You don't have to support a particular team in a sport to get enjoyment out of watching it. I've grew up watching soccer from England too and for a lot longer than 20 years, but there is still no reason why I should support any team playing in those leagues. I never have, and the fact that I don't is no reason why I shouldn't watch the matches or get any less enjoyment out of them than you or some other person who supports a team in it. To date I have never been to Premiership match, though I hope to at some stage. I have been at two Scottish League games while on visits there, both Celtic games as it happens, but again I don't support any team there. I do keep an eye on it though.

It is not, as people are somtimes accused, some anti-English/British bias that determines why some people don't support English soccer clubs. There are an awful lot of countries in this world and I don't support clubs in any of those countries either. I don't support and other country either in soccer or other sports. I am Irish, so there is no reason I should support any other country, but that doesn't stop me watching and enjoying international sporting fixtures.

As to the difference between Carlisle and Manchester United, you basically proved my point by saying that the Irish players and Manchester United in general are better than Carlisle and that is why you support them. So in essence you picked a good team with Irish players as opposed to a bad Irish ones or a team with good Irish players as opposed to a team with bad ones or a team with high profile Irish players as opposed to one with low profile Irish players. Irish players play with both teams. The international ones playing for Manchester United and other high profile clubs are no more Irish than the Irish players playing in the lower divisions or non-league. In that regard they are 100% equal. The players are most certainly of different quality, you are right there, but Irish players play for both teams, so there is absolutely no difference in terms of the fact of the nationality of those players. If one of your reasons for supporting Manchester United is because they have Irish players playing for them, then the point that so do other teams still holds true. You are choosing based on quality not on any connection or loyalty to the team. Even given that we would be all more familiar with Irish international players, they play for various teams, so why pick one over any other? Your reason for following Manchester United, there are Irish players playing for them, can be said about many other teams, so you have still made a choice somewhere along the line as they are not the only team that meet that criteria. So the question remains: why do you support Manchester United? I keep an eye on our international players, but again I can do that just as carefully and avidly as you do, without supporting any team.

Again you proved my point when you say that the Eircom League is not as good, so you don't support a team in it. The quality is irrelevant from one perspective. If Ireland had the worst international soccer team in the world, we should still support them. Of course the Premiership is more attractive to watch, but as I keep saying you can do so without supporting a team. If someone does support a team in the Eircom League it should be their local team or a team they have a strong connection with. There is an Eircom League team a lot closer to you than Old Trafford is. True, you may not enjoy it as much due to quality, but you could support that team, even if they are useless. That is what being a fan is all about. You support your team through thick and thin and they are your team to start with not by choice as such, but because they are your local team or national team or whatever. If a one-legged, blind, under-5s girls team could hammer your team 50 nil having had 3 players sent off, you should still support them. That is what fans do!!!!

You can support Manchester United if you want to, we can't stop you, but based on the usual arguments people put forward for doing so, there is no more reason to for you to support Manchester United than any other Premiership team or any other team right down to the local Sunday morning team playing in some rural part of England. "I don't know anyone that plays for them" or "I have never heard of them" are the answers we hear back from people when that is put to them, which again proves the point that people are choosing some high profile team because they are doing well and its fashionable to do so and some of their mates and/or family support them. There are diehard Carlisle fans out there, mostly in Carlisle of course, and fans of the Sunday morning team in that rural part of England and they are fans of those teams, because they are their team. How good or bad they are or how high or low profile their players are or what league they play in is all totally irrelevant to them; it is their team. They are not making a choice, like you are. You would not choose to support Middle Of Nowhere And Absolutely Totally Useless United over Manchester United, which is our very point. The fans of Middle Of Nowhere And Absolutely Totally Useless United don't choose as such to support them, they just do, because it is their team. You are making a choice, they aren't.

As you say a lot of people, both male and female, support English soccer teams. We are not questioning their right to do so, but just asking why they choose one team over another? That is the whole issue we are about here. People can support a team, but the question is why that particular team? You'll find the vast amount of them don't support the likes of Carlisle or Accrington Stanley or Stoke City or Oldham Athletic etc. They nearly all support Premiership teams or teams that have been at the highest level, like Leeds or Nottingham Forest etc. In the summer of 1995 there were an awful lot of Blackburn fans around. Even though they are still in the Premiership all those fans seem to have disappeared.

We are not saying that you or they should not watch English soccer, but asking why do you have to support a team at all to do so? You can watch American Football too if you want, but again to do that it is not necessary for you to support a team. You can watch and enjoy any sport you like, but you don't have to support some arbitrarily chosen team to do so. You can favour a team in a particular match, as we all do, but you don't have to support a team to do so. So like I do, sit down and watch the Premiership and keep a particularly close eye on the Irish players and enjoy the quality of the games and do it all without supporting a team, a team you have chosen, not inherited. You'll get just as much pleasure out of it!

Waylander

Flukey you are full of sh*te! Personally Icould not care less wether you support a team or not that is entirely your decision. However, I do have a problem with being criticised for supporting a team. I did make a decision 20 years ago that United played a brand of football I liked and they also had my favourite players from the Irish team there at that time too. I am sorry if this does not make it any easier for you to understand why I support them, but I am getting a bit tired of explaining myself to you at this stage. Also I find I take more enjoyment from watching these leagues, when I have a team I support, it keeps my interest up, it is good for having banter with the lads down the pub etc. Like I said earlier, a very high percentage of the under 40 male population of this country support teams in the premiership, do you really think that you and Dub are correct and everyone else is wrong? Also like I said earlier, and you typically enough glossed over this as it does not really suit your arguement, when I began supporting United they had not won the league for almost 20 years, so yes they were obviously the choice to pick if I wanted to support the most successful team.

therecklessone

Flukey wrote:

Why do I support Dublin?

<snip>

You'll get just as much pleasure out of it!

I'll summarise your last reply as "you don't have to support a non-Irish team to enjoy the sport they play". But that it no way negates a person's choice to support a non-Irish sports team, does it?

Not everyone supports their team because they're successful (why bother be a Dublin GAA fan if thats not the case... ). I support Spurs because:

(a) When I was a nipper they played attractive football, and
(b) My uncle supported them.

I grew attached to the club from watching them play throughout the early 80s (a relatively successful time for the club I'll grant you). Funnily enough, thats the same reason I support Shelbourne, they just happened to be the first EL team I saw play more than a handful of times. Hell, I wasn't even aware the EL existed until the late 80s/early 90s!

Take the example of my three mates. One supports Grimsby (since he was a kid, cos his cousins are from there), one Newcastle (his dad was from there and still has relatives over there, but he's born and bred Irish), and another Luton (lived there for four years as a youngster). Of the three, only the third guy has any connection to the team he supports, and thats tenuous to say the least. Yeah there's loads of fairweather fans out there, but there's also plenty of people who've grown attached to a club and stuck with them through thick and thin. Hell, in my 20 years of supporting Spurs I've seen them win two trophies and come perilously close to bankruptcy, and I've still stuck with it.

Flukey

Well, in fairness, all 3 of your mates have some sort of a link to their clubs, not just the third guy. After all, where would our international team be without the grandmother rule? You and they support your teams loyally, as many do. I have no problem with that. The question all along is as to why people pick particular teams in the first place and that in the vast majority of cases it is for no sound reason, or reason that could not be applied to a host of other clubs. You yourself said it was because your uncle supported them and they played attractive football, all which may well be true. But then again you are saying that if they were not a good team you would not have supported them. This is true of many "fans" out there. They may justify it to themselves and convince themselves or say "well I've always supported them" etc.

I never chose to support Dublin or Ireland. It's where I am from. You even at times see Irish kids going around sporting Brazilian shirts or All-Blacks shirts and claiming to support them. That is fair enough, but you never see any kids with Faeroe Isles shirts or Ugandan shirts etc. Again, they are choosing a good or high-profile team. Dublin are not the best at the moment and Ireland have had their bad times, but I still support them and not by choice, but because they are my teams.

One of the most common reasons you hear when you ask why they support a certain team is "because they are a good team," which in itself is saying that if they were useless they would not support them. All those little kids that are running around in Manchester United jerseys over the past few years will turn around in 20 years time and say "I've always supported them." They will have been loyal supporters throughout that time no doubt but when it comes down to it, their original reason for picking their team and the very fact in itself that they "picked" a team is on shaky ground. They are perfectly entitled to support them, and may be the most devoted and loyal fans out there, but apart from the few Mancunians that are now living in Ireland they could be supporting Carlisle for the exact same reasons as they support Manchester United. But of course they wouldn't support Carlisle because, as they will tell you if you ask them why they don't, "they are useless!" QED!

Flukey

Carlisle 2 Woking 1


Not bad, considering they were a goal down with 5 minutes to go!

The Rooster

While what your saying is generally right Flukey, I dont think there is anything wrong with supporting a team in the Premiership.

If you like sport there's a probable chance you'll enjoy English soccer which is on telly quite a bit. And personally (and I think this goes for most people, although you seem to be an exception) I get more enjoyment out of sport when I'm rooting for someone (or against someone). So its only natural that you pick a team to support. Most people pick a team when they are very young -so the reason tends to be one of two things
1 - my dad/uncle/friend supports them so I'll support them too
2- they look like a really good team.

There's nothing at all wrong with this - its just people enjoying watching sport.

What is embarrassing and sad is when you hear Irish people saying "If I had a choice I'd prefer to see ManU winning the Champions League over Ireland winning the World Cup". Thats pathetic.

kilkennycat2004

Flukey wrote:

The question all along is as to why people pick particular teams in the first place and that in the vast majority of cases it is for no sound reason, or reason that could not be applied to a host of other clubs. You yourself said it was because your uncle supported them and they played attractive football, all which may well be true. But then again you are saying that if they were not a good team you would not have supported them. This is true of many "fans" out there. They may justify it to themselves and convince themselves or say "well I've always supported them" etc.
QED!

I support Leeds Utd since 1968 & been over at games maybe a hundred times.
My godson supports Leeds because I bought him the books, team shirts etc.. when he was growing up. He's been over to Elland Road a few times now also.
My 2 sons also support Leeds. They have both been over with me & we look forward to the Wolves game in Spring 2005.
When I started following Leeds they were just about a force & had Irishman Johnny Giles playing. But you stick with them through thick & thin.
And let me tell you its pretty thin at the moment but we still look forward to getting to at least one game in 2005.
I see nothing at all wrong with this & follow Leeds with similar passion to say non season ticket fans living in yorkshire.
Your county in the GAA is special but there's still plenty of interest to really follow an English football team & not just on tv either.
I look forward to having grankids at some stage & they will be brought up & visiting Elland Road also please God.

Big Ears

The Rooster wrote:

What is embarrassing and sad is when you hear Irish people saying "If I had a choice I'd prefer to see ManU winning the Champions League over Ireland winning the World Cup". Thats pathetic.

I ****ing hate that too , and I beleive there was a poll on this on the soccer forum a while ago and club winning the CL was ahead of Ireland winning World Cup , makes me ****ing sick .

Waylander

KK I think it is very unfair of you to inflict that future on your Grand Kids. Have a heart wil you How can you be so inhumane?

Flukey

I don't have a problem with people supporting a team if they want. It is how they choose that team in the first place. For most it is a random choice to a team that they have no stronger a connection to than any other team. As I've said all along, I follow the Premiership with as much interest as anyone that has a team. For most people picking a team is just following a trend or doing it because someone else does. For a lot of them it is very artificial, no matter how they justify it subsequently. Having picked their team many go on to be loyal supporters for the rest of their lives, but it was still built on a suspect foundation.

As has been pointed out it is sad when people start putting it above their own national team. The Eircom League here has improved a lot over the past few years. It does not get the profile it should. The Premiership will usually be reported first. OK there is more interest in the Premiership, but then one of the ways to give the Eircom League a higher profile would be to report it more. Reporting it more would increase the interest. You can say that it is nor reported much because there is little interest in it but you could also say there is little interest because it doesn't get reported much. More coverage would increase the interest. It has got more coverage in recent years and it is helping. It's profile is rising. It is not on a par with other leagues around Europe, but it is improving. If you were at or saw the Shelbourne v Deportivo match, you'd have seen Shelbourne put up a very creditable performance. People were expecting them to be hammered about 5 nil that night, but they held their own very well. Even in the return leg they were playing very well. They could have even taken the lead. The first goal came from a mistake and that broke their heart a bit. Their run did a lot for the game and hopefully that will help. We are a small sport-loving country. We need to do as much as we can to help and support our own sports and sports people. We do very well for a country of our size and there is room for improvement.

Flukey

It is disappointing to see sometimes how the major days of some domestic sport are not featured first or higher up than some international sports stories in news reports. I can often remember seeing it happen. Obviously the Premiership is the main one, though there are others. I've seen a standard day in the Premiership being reported ahead of a major day in some Irish sports. We are back to the "there is no interest so it doesn't get reported" v "it doesn't get reported so there is no interest" scenario. Preference should always be given to the big day in the Irish sport. Most countries would do that. They would report their own main stories first, even when some of the international stories are high profile. A final in a big sport here should be reported before stories from abroad. There are of course going to be really big stories abroad that will naturally take preference, but a standard story from abroad should not take precedence over a big story from here. Those stories deserve their profile and seeing them higher up the editorial list would help. All the stories would be reported but big domestic stories should get priority over standard foreign stories on their big day. It doesn't always happen.

madmorphy

Can't we all just get on lads !. I don't think there's much of a threat from premiership soccer,personally i think the dublin gaa crowds are getting bigger every year.2000 at a challenge game against louth 2 weeks ago.huge crowds against kerry,roscommon,leitrim and westmeath in the championship.big crowds against tyrone(all ticket) kerry cork and westmeath in the league.
Dublin's first league game is against mayo under lights on sat 5th February in parnell pk,with a bit of marketing i'm sure this could be close enough to a full house.
I'm a parnell pk season ticket holder so is the mate(a big man united fan),but i'd still go down the pub to watch the odd Man United game.Should i be in fear of the gaa gestapo ?.In my opnion the only threat Sky sponsored Soccer poses is to soccer it's self,i've read recently apart from the big 3 attendances are falling all over the place.You can only watch the games if you have sky sports or you go to the pub.Great excuse for the lads to sink a few pints,what about the kids !.My two litte cousins (liverpool supporters from their dad) have recently starting asking me to take them to gaa matches because
1.they don't have sky sports at home and there's no way they'd be allowed into the pub to watch them.
2.You can't just get the bus to Anfield.

Iago

DUB wrote:

Eh that last statement is simply not true. Very few Premier league clubs have Irish players in their first team.

You're wrong, there are very few first team squads in the premiership that don't have Irish Players in them. Taking just the top 4 teams at the moment, you have Graham Stack, Damien Duff, Roy Keane, John O'Shea, Liam Miller, Paul McShane, Lee Carsley and that continues down through the rest of the teams in the league. I could make a list for you, but I couldn't be bothered.

No I don't see the logic in supporting a foreign city's sporting club. I won't apologise for that. That doesn't mean I'm looking down my nose, it just means I don't get it.. In my opinion cheering on a foreign cities 'sporting' club [plc?] is a hollow experience.

and that's the root of the problem here. I don't support Manchester United because they're from Manchester. I support them because I like the club. If they were still called Newton Heath I would still support them, if they were based in Dublin I'd support them, the geographic location is irrelevant.

Fine its a bit of a laugh down the pub but don't try and convince me your as big a fan as someone who grew up going to old Trafford every second weekend. What pride can you possibly feel in Manchester United's achievements?

Of course I do, how can you assume I don't? Just because it is more difficult for me to get to matches doesn't mean I take any less pride in their achievements or that I'm less of a fan. In fact I would say I'm a bigger fan than some that do go to Old Trafford every second weekend, how many of those fans travel around Europe watching Utd Play? I do, and when I'm not over there I watch every game I can whereever I can.

They have no loyalty to us and will soon enough have no Irish players in their first team, possibly never again. They don't care about us, so why should you spend your time and effort caring about them? Having Irish players means nothing to them let alone English players. Are you happy about that or are you one of these I don't care where the players comes from types so long as the club does well?

Makes no odds to me where the players come from as long as they want to play for Utd and are good enough to do so. However with the emergence of John O'Shea and Liam Miller as well as the progress made by Paul McShane and Paul Tierney I think it's highly unlikely that Utd won't have any Irish Players in the coming years.

Lucky then you've 'chosen' a club, randomly of course, that will always be more or less in the top three or four clubs in England isn't it?

I've supported Utd since I was a boy in the late seventies, when the only thing we won with any regularity was games against Liverpool. In the entire decade of the '80's, the only thing we won was 2 FA Cups, and we were almost relegated on a couple of occasions. At no point did I stop supporting them.

What about Leeds, they've a great tradition of paddies plus have a lot of Irish youngfellas coming through, why don't I see hardly anyone supporting them anymore? Funny really, where are all those Blackburn tops gone from ten years ago? I suppose those people have now 'changed' their support to Chelsea, yea? Real honest sporting pride and passion yea? But no one is allowed cast dispersions, oh no, every Chelsea fan will claim of course that they've supposrted Chelsea through thick and thin no doubt, since the hoddle era, no better then that since childhood, the tears and beer will flow all over the country i suppose when they celibrate their hollow victory thanks to their sugar daddy come may, but no one is allowed snigger at the farce because Dunphy and Giles says they're the best yea, everone will ignore the fact that they have spent 200 million (!!!) on winning the league.

Yes there are a lot of "johnny come lately" fans in soccer when a team is successful, I look on them the same way you would a Dublin man who has no interest in GAA but suddenly starts wearing the jersey after the Dublin team lifts the SAM Maguire. There not worth my time or consideration, that doesn't mean you can tar everyone with the same brush..

Support Man yoo by all means if you like but my point is that it is such a shame that people, will blow 60 euro for a multi-national global brand of a sporting organisation for their latest 'Rooney' jersey when he gets paid three times that every second and blows it on shaggin grannies, and our local sporting clubs and sporting organisations could really do with either your time or money.

The government pumps more money into the GAA than any other sport in this country. Perhaps if they gave as much to soccer we would have soccer teams that were entertaining to watch and who could compete on a European level. At the moment they can't, and the quality isn't that much higher than the level I play at in Intermediate Leinster Senior League, so I don't really have an interest in it.

Similarly with GAA and Rugby, although I'll watch it if it's on, the sport just doesn't appeal to me on the same level that soccer does. Maybe that's because soccer was what I grew up with, all my friends played it and my father was big into it. I certainly respect the players and their commitment and if that's what you're into then fair enough. Why can't you say the same about soccer supporters?

One other quote mentioned was about people saying they would rather "their team won the champions league than their country win the world cup" This isn't restricted to Ireland. If you speak to English Fans they will tell you that the national team is seen as a "London Team" more than a national team, and while they support them, their own teams success if of more importance, I remember one guy saying "I didn't choose to be English, but I did choose to support Man Utd" that was his justification. In Spain, both Madrid and Barcelona Supporters care more about their teams success than their countries, it's the same in Italy with the Milan and Turin teams and so on and so forth...

Personally, I'd prefer Ireland to win the world cup, but wouldn't it be something if we did it with first generation Irish players rather than some guy with a scouse accent who happened to have a great grandfather who spent a night in Kerry back in 1943...

Niall Quinn gave a speech a few weeks ago at a dinner, and he recounted a tale from the World Cup in Italy. After Ireland were knocked out they were in the dressing room when in came a man in a fancy suit waxing lyrical about the brave Sons of Erin and how the country was proud etc etc.. Tony Cascarino asked Quinn "Hey Quinny, who the fcuk is that?" and Quinn responded "shut up and listen that's the Taoiseach"

Andy Townsend nudged Cascarino and said, "here, what did Quinny say, who is he?" to which Cascarino replied

"I don't know, but Quinny says he owns a tea shop or something"

Ah Yes, pride in the boys in green

Flukey

Iago as you said yourself "I don't support Manchester United because they're from Manchester. I support them because I like the club." It comes back to the point as to why you first started supporting them? Why do you or did you like them? You made a choice at some point. Even in the 1970s they were a high profile club, though they weren't winning anything. You have stuck with them since, through the bad days, which is fair enough, but the point all along is as to why you first chose them above any other club in the very first place?

As was mentioned in your post, people don't choose their nationality, so they support their country, but at lower representative levels the natural thing to do would be to support you own county or province or local club etc. At some point, back in the 1970s, as a child, you chose to support Manchester United above any of the other 80 or 90 clubs playing in England that you could have chosen. So why did you choose them? That is the whole central question being asked throughout the thread. We are not saying that you should now stop supporting them; we are just trying to establish why your started supporting them in the first instance.

Many of you are very loyal supporters and no one is questioning that. You and others have stuck with your respective teams through thick and thin and no one is questioning that either. Saying that you did so, or saying that they were not successful when you started supporting them and you were not jumping on a bandwagon like modern Man U fans, still does not answer the question as to why you did choose them in the first place. Saying it wasn't because of their success at the time that you picked them, may eliminate that reason, but still doesn't tell us why you did pick them.

As I said earlier to Waylander, why didn't you pick Carlisle United, or any other team, even another first division club? Whatever about how loyal a supporter you have been since or their lack of success when you began supporting them and for a while after, you could have picked any one of a number of clubs that the exact same thing could be said of. So why, in your case, Manchester United?

Iago

Flukey wrote:

As I said earlier to Waylander, why didn't you pick Carlisle United, or any other team, even another first division club? Whatever about how loyal a supporter you have been since or their lack of success when you began supporting them and for a while after, you could have picked any one of a number of clubs that the exact same thing could be said of. So why, in your case, Manchester United?

That's a fair enough question and I should have answered it in my first post I guess. For me it was a combination of a couple of things. Firstly my Dad was very into soccer at the time and pushed me in that direction. Funnily enough he didn't support Manchester United, but Nottingham Forest, at the time towards the late 70's early 80's they were a very big team, mainly due to the influence of Brian Clough. He was the reason my dad supported forest. He liked Brian Clough as a player and as a manager and he liked the style of football that his teams played.

I'm exactly the same, at the time the "in" thing was to support Liverpool, they were the top team and were winning everything before them. For me though, there was always a special buzz about United, I liked the way they played, I liked their attitude and the support of their fans. It was easy to support Liverpool as they won all and sundry, but these united fans were fully behind their team when they weren't doing well at all, that struck a chord with me. Mostly it was their tradition and style of football that swung me. I loved watching them play, even when results weren't going their way they didn't give up, they battled and played the game in the right spirit. I was young at the time and whenever we played in the streets I always wanted to be a United Player, that might not make any sense to you, it's hard to quantify the feelings I had at the time. It was cemented in the early
80's when the likes of Bryan Robson, Paul McGrath and Mark Hughes signed and were playing. Bryan Robson is my all time favourite player, followed by Mark Hughes. Two more commited sportsmen you couldn't find, for me they epitimised everything that was good about Manchester United. Two men that would give everything they had, game after game, let nothing stand between them and their goal, who put personal safety second to club needs...

It appealed to me, and not much has changed, now we have Roy Keane and Gary Neville, who are exactly the same, giants among men IMHO (ok I've gone on enough I know!) in a nutshell Utd are my team because of the standards they set for themselves and their players, for the way they played and the way they tried to play, and for the support they received no matter how bad things were.

Flukey

If you look at the teams that people pick, they are always a successful or high profile team. While Manchester United may not have been successful during the 1970s, they have alway been high profile since the 1950s. Teams like Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Leeds, Newcastle etc. are the type of teams people pick, not the like of Carlisle, Stockport, Port Vale, Walsall etc. It is always teams that are in the top division and/or have a history of being there. If your mates support Premiership teams you can't turn around and tell them you support Chester City, so everyone will opt for a top flight team. If they don't pick the big team of the day, they'll often go for their arch enemy or one of the other big teams of the time, even if they are not winning anything, which years later becomes their proof that they did not go for a successful team. So over recent years you get Man U fans or ABU fans, many of whom will go for Arsenal or Liverpool or Chelsea etc, and none of which will go for the likes of Carlisle. That is what always happens.

The vast majority of people who follow an English soccer team will find themselves covered somewhere in all of what I have said. There is nothing wrong with watching English soccer or even following a team, but if people are going to pick a team they should at least be honest about it, insofar as that they went for a successful or high profile team because they were successful or high profile. Anyone you ask will always dress it up or claim they were not successful at the time they started or they were good to watch or whatever. I watch and enjoy English soccer just as much as anyone, but I have never supported any team. I support Ireland in various sports and Dublin in GAA, but then I am connected to them. I don't support anyone because I like the way they play or because they are successful or high profile or whatever. You don't choose who you support, you inherit it or are born to it.

I am a big sports fan and right through the Summer you will find me in Croke Park on just about every single day that there is a match there, not just when Dublin are playing. At those other matches, I may want one or other team to win, but I don't support them. When it comes to English soccer clubs I'll watch matches and may want one or other team to win, but I don't support anyone. It does not spoil my enjoyment. You can still join in with the slagging off of other peoples team as all those who support a team do. I am sort of immune because having slagged someone's team, when they turn and ask who I support, hoping to have a crack at them, I can look them straight in the eye and say "No one." There is not much they can say to that.

Anyway, this is a GAA forum and we're not even meant to discuss soccer outside of its forum and I think we've flogged this to death. I suppose it is GAA off season. Coming back to where this all started, GAA has absolutely nothing to fear from soccer on Sky. After all, for the most part it is the same people watching both. As sports fans, we are not exclusive to one sport. Most GAA fans are soccer fans and are rugby fans. Especially with the whole Croke Park debate and the way it is sometimes portrayed, you'd think that no one that has been in Croke Park has ever been in Lansdowne Road and vice versa, which is of course ridiculous. The debate is often portrayed as if all the GAA fans were on one side and all the soccer and rugby fans were on the other. The GAA fans, soccer fans and rugby fans are predominantly the same people.

therecklessone

Flukey wrote:

The vast majority of people who follow an English soccer team will find themselves covered somewhere in all of what I have said.

Except you've missed one very important point: how many 7 year olds are aware that Carlisle even exist? Certainly when I was a kid, there was precious little live top flight football on TV, and nothing from the lower divisions (IIRC, I'm open to correction). You think there's not enough coverage of the Eircom League in the Irish media? How much coverage do you think we got of mid-table 4th division football in November in the 80s? So how can you criticise kids (and lets face it, the majority of fans choose a team as a kid and stick with it) for choosing a top flight team when thats all they're exposed to? Especially if their old man/older brother/uncle happens to follow one of the top teams.

Flukey wrote:

You don't choose who you support, you inherit it or are born to it.

So if I supprted the same team as my dad I'd be all right? Thats inheritance for ya...

By that reasoning there's vast tracts of this land where soccer fans can't support an Eircom League team. Who does a fella living in Dingle support? What about Ballina? Portlaoise?

And what about some poor confused kid on Dublin's northside, who can't choose between Shelbourne, Bohemians or CHF? Jaysus, by your reckoning Shamrock Rovers aren't entilted to a fan at all at all...not a bad thing that...

Flukey wrote:

The GAA fans, soccer fans and rugby fans are predominantly the same people.

Exactly.

Blackjack

I follow Spurs, purely because I was about 6, they were playing in an FA cup and I was asked who I was following. I had to ask who was playing and I picked Tottenham. Don't know why but for that game and the FA cup the following year I was on a Winner. Been a bit lean since mind.
I've never been to a spurs game and to be honest my interest in Soccer is that where I would not really go out of my way to watch a game, unless Ireland are playing.
I am going to a mate's house to watch tonight though.

I follow Mayo in football, and I make considerably more effort to watch or go to a game, and would go to Croker (if I'm in Dublin) to watch a game regardless of who's playing (in any code) because it's good craic and the atmosphere is always great.

I don't think that Sky Soccer is a big threat to GAA, given that the rules of the games are changing (new rules, back door to the championship etc) and that there appears to be a lot more attendance at games now than in previous years. A few years ago there appeared to be a decline, but this no longer appears to be the case.

If anything, soccer appears to be in decline. Viewing figures are down and revenues for SKY's sports are also in decline.

The only thing that would create a problem for GAA would be to remove it from FTA television and make it PPV in Ireland. PPV works OK in the UK, as most people will go to the pub to watch a game for the atmosphere and perhaps to meet other Irish people, but in Ireland it would not work.

Flukey

Therecklessone, I know kids aren't exposed to the lower division football and would not know about Carlisle (who apparently are doing well in the Conference and may even get promoted:) ), but even so, there is no particular reason why they should support any team. Even then, when they do go for a top division team, it is always one of the real high flying ones. At the current time there are not going to be too many kids opting for West Brom or Southampton etc. Of course if any of them rocket up to the top or win the FA Cup or something, that could all change, which is how fickle the choice of who to support is. Blackburn are the classic modern example. Where are all those 1995 fans now?

As you have confirmed it is down to exposure, not to any real affiliation to the team. As Blakjack said, he picked a team playing in the FA Cup Final. In a given game, like an FA Cup final, I might want one or other team to win, but I don't follow any team. I may opt for a team as they are the underdog or they have not won it for a long time or whatever, like many people do when watching a sporting event. That is as close as I get to supporting a team though.

While a fan may be loyal ever after, that initial choice of team is usually based on nothing, or the fact that a team happened to have a profile at the time, or their granny supported them or whatever. I grew up watching soccer matches like all of you, but I never opted to permanently support any team, because, like with the vast majority of kids today, there was no reason why I should. "They're a good team" or "They're on the TV a lot" etc. is not a solid reason to begin with.

As to the confused Northside kids, at least Shelbourne, Bohemians et al are closer to them than Manchester United, Real Madrid or AC Milan. They are Dubliners, so supporting a Dublin club makes more sense than supporting one in a place they have never been in. They can still enjoy those games, but they don't have to support them and they don't have to support a Dublin club either if they don't want to. They can still watch them too though. If they do choose one they have a far better chance of seeing them live, talking to their players, getting autographs etc. than they have of doing the same with the big clubs abroad.

I certainly hope Sky Sports don't get Gaelic Football, as they have destroyed soccer for the fans in England, but I can't see it going pay per view here. Of course in many cases Sky Sports is not pay per view, but pay per pay per view, as although you have already subscribed, you are often asked to pay something extra to see certain events. It is like going to a match and having paid through one stile, finding yourself confronted with another one to pay through.

With Sky Movies, for some movies it is like having paid for your ticket at the cashier at a cinema, having to pay the guy at the entrance to the screen or the usher to actually get in and watch the film. They are a complete rip-off. In their ads when they say that if you want Sky that you should phone your local operator, it should be an operator in terms of a surgeon, because you need brain surgery if you even considered getting Sky Sports, therefore volunteering to be ripped off.

Waylander

Thanks for that explanation of pay per view flukey, none of us really understood what it meant! To my mind you are repeating the same points in every post here, but are convincing noone of anything. You are right maybe the people who pick teams to support should be a little more objective about their choices, but they are kids, and how many kids do you know who put that much consideration into these things. I find your attitude mildly ridiculous, and was quite offended by it earlier in the thread. As for your point that Sky have ruined English soccer I could not disagree more, they put together a very professional package for each match, and the profile of the Premiership has improved dramatically since they got the rights, I do agree however that I would not like to see them get EXCLUSIVE GAA coverage.

There is no comparison between EL soccer and Premiership soccer and it is a bit daft that you keep suggesting there is. The Premeirship, to my mind at least is of a considerably higher standard, and is alot more exciting. I am sure their are Eircom League fans out there who disagree with my viewpoint, and that is fair enough, most of them will disagree with me because they support specific teams and this makes supporting a league alot more interesting despite you protestations to the opposite. You have said in this thread that you are a premiership fan despite the fact that you do not support a club, and that you have as much of an interest as those of us who do support a club. You have also said that you have never been to a premiership game, and that you regularly go to Croker to watch two teams play when you are a neutural. I think you are a GAA fan, but I do not think you are a premiership fan, I think you might watch match of the day if their is nothing else on, but that is not quite the same thing as being a fan. Also what about the hundreds and thousands of Irish GAA fans abroad, should they give up following GAA as they are away from home and it is not as easy to support their team. England is only a cheap flight away, it is actually fairly accessible, and I already have defenite plans to see the team I support play at least once this year. Hopefully I will get to see them more then that.

Flukey

I am a GAA fan, I've made no secret of that. I have not been to a Premiership match but I would like to go sometime. I have been at Scottish League matches. As I don't support a particular team I don't have any connections to any supporters clubs or teams so a ticket is not readily available to me. I know people who are supporters who have found it very difficult to get tickets for matches. If I am in England sometime and the opportunty presents itself, I would go to a match. That is how I managed to get to the Scottish league games, while visiting there for other reasons.

I have never said that the Eircom League was on a par in terms of quality of Premiership. I have been pointing out that it is the local league and people here would have a stronger connection and more opportunity to go to games here. Certainly it is not as entertaining, but it has improved. There are things that could be done to improve it more and increase its profile. The FAI and IFA should rejoin. Managers and players on both sides of the border have expressed an interest in doing so. It is good that the two organisations are going to have a joint cup competition, the Setanta Cup.

Sky most definitely have helped destroy English soccer. The quality has improved, but that is not what I am talking about. You say they put together a good package in their coverage, which is true, but it is a bit pointless if you have to be ripped off to see it. Why, if their package is so good, are they afraid to compete with the other channels? Before you say they do by buying the rights, that is not really competing. It is like saying that yourself, myself and a few others will have a race, but only the one who pays the most money will be allowed to run in it. If they really believed in their coverage they could put it up as free to air alongside the other channels, or buy a share of the rights so it would not be exclusive, and if it was the best everyone would watch it. They are competing on the amount of money in their wallet, not the actual quality of their product. As we all do during the World Cup and European Championships, by switching between BBC, ITV and RTE, people would have a choice then. If Sky were the best, they would get the biggest share and attract the best advertising.

There are other ways they have helped ruin English soccer. Gone are the days when a father and his son(s) could go along to a match on a Saturday afternoon and watch a game and see their heroes play. The ordinary man finds it a lot harder to go to games nowadays than in the past as he is being priced out of it and there are dorporate people going along, many of whom have little or no interest in soccer. You get a bit of that in Croke Park now, but not on the same scale.

The Premiership is of a good quality, but it has done damage to "English" soccer. Most of the players playing are now from abroad. It is great for quality and the fans like that, but the game on the ground is suffering. It is a lot harder now for English boys to get into clubs and play the game. Think about it, how many Premiership clubs could field a complete team from 1 to 11 of English players? So it is now harder for the ordinary fan to get to a game and harder for an Englishman to get to into a club, so in those ways English soccer has been damaged. Sky Sports have played a part in that, though are by no means solely responsible and it is of course not a phenomenom exclusive to England. Scottish Football is in fact worse and it has very obviously impacted on their international team.

On another point, seeing as we have fans of both teams here, what are your reactions to Tottenham's "goal" last night? In fairness to the referee and the linesmen, the game was almost over so they were probably calling for their guide dogs to get ready to help them off the pitch at the time.:rolleyes: One thing this again proves for the umpteenth time, is that soccer should do what the GAA do, and have at least one official permanently based near the goal. They could clear up situations like this and probably help in penalty decisions and other decisions in that area of the pitch. With all the millions in the game now, it would not be a major expense to pay for an official at each goal, as the linesmen and referee can't always be close enough. The offside rule should be radically changed too.

One other thing out of this is that if players can be done for diving or inflicting serious injuries on players, Roy Carroll should be done for this. He should also have had the decency and sportsmanship to own up to it being a goal. Video evidence is used after games for some issues, and this was conclusive. Even Alex Ferguson in the after match interview was finding it hard to defend.

Waylander

Flukey Sky are not even close to responsible for most of what you blame them for in that last post. How can they be blamed for corporates attending matches, these are Sky's target audience, I do not see the link with how Sky can be blamed for this. Unless you are telling me that these people only started to support football since Sky started promoting the league, and if so then it shows what a success that Sky has been as attendances are up in most grounds. Shame on them.

Also the foreign players thing, again I am struggling to see how this is Sky's fault. My reactions to Tottnehams goal are that it should have stood and they were unlucky. I agree that there is technology which could have proven this on the night, but again this is an FA issue, and if anything Sky have been bakcing the introduction of this technology. Roy Carroll merely did what any other keeper in the premiership would have done, and criticising him for not displaying better sportsmanship is just plain naievity. It is very rare in any sport that you see a player, who is benefiting from a ref's decision, disagree with the decision. Robbie Fowler did it once he went down under a challenge by David Seaman, but such a display is very rare.

Finally, if Sky allowed the other stations show the matches also they would lose alot of advertising revenue. This would simply be bad business.

Flukey

Waylander wrote:

How can they be blamed for corporates attending matches, these are Sky's target audience,

My point exactly. The common man, the real supporter, has been squeezed out.

Waylander wrote:

Finally, if Sky allowed the other stations show the matches also they would lose alot of advertising revenue. This would simply be bad business.

Well if exclusive rights were not allowed, which should be the case, they would be paying less to get their share than currently, so they would not lose much if any. The clubs could still charge the high amounts for the rights, just splitting them between broadcasters, so they would not lose out much, if at all. Sky get most of their money by ripping people off. If people used their power as consumers and stopped paying, Sky would have to change and we could all see football on television then, not just those that are happy to be ripped off.

As to Roy Carroll, we have often seen players being charged over incidents that referees did not see, so this should be no different.

There are a few things already going around on the net over the incident:

As a result of the incident at the Tottenham Hotspur vs Manchester United match last night, The FA have made the following statement:

An FA spokesman after the game absolved the linesman of any responsibility for the apparently mistaken decision not to award a goal to Spurs after a shot from the halfway line crossed the goal line by at least a metre."

"The shot came in from an unusual distance and as such caught the linesman out of position forcing him to race back towards the goal as the play developed", explained the spokesman, "As he ran, the United scarf he was wearing under his shirt came loose and fluttered up into his face obscuring his view and preventing him from making the call. It was just one of those things."

In response to further questions from the Press the spokesman explained "If they don't already have a United tattoo most officials on game day try to wear a scarf or a replica shirt under their regulation kit to show their support for the worlds greatest club. The linesman in this case had chosen to wear a United scarf, a common choice that is in keeping with FA guidelines. The root cause of the problem lies not with the linesman but with the players and management of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club who broke one the most important unwritten rules of the English FA: They placed a shot on target at Old Trafford. Martin Jol is new to this country and perhaps he s not yet familiar with some of our finer traditions. Fortunately if he doesn't yet understand that for the greater good of the game visiting teams, by tradition, are not expected to try to score at Old Trafford then our officials are in a position to help Mr Jol make that cultural adjustment."

Chuckling to himself the FA spokesman added "The goal had to be disallowed to avoid us descending down a slippery slope that would be bad for the national game. It's a fine line the officials have to walk. If they award a goal this week, next week someone might expect a penalty or ask that Van Nistelrooy be booked for diving. Can you imagine? That would just never do. No no no. Shocking, just the thought of it."

Waylander

Sky do not actually sell tickets for the matches, they sell television shows flukey. Sky are more interested in selling these corporate heads digibox's then they are in seeing them attending premiership matches. Unfortunately Old Trafford and Chelsea are the only grounds that mostly sell out to corporate subscribers. Most grounds do not sell out on a weekly basis, although attendances are fairly high.

I susbscribe to Sky, and from a sports point of view I am more then happy with what I get and I do not feel I am being ripped off, I do think they could do alot better in some other areas, but their sports coverage is very good. Pretty much all sports sell their right in Exclusivity including GAA, and again you are blaming Sky, when the rights are the FA's to sell as they wish.

Just out of curiosity what would you propose Roy Carroll be charged with?

therecklessone

Flukey wrote:

The clubs could still charge the high amounts for the rights, just splitting them between broadcasters, so they would not lose out much, if at all. Sky get most of their money by ripping people off. If people used their power as consumers and stopped paying, Sky would have to change and we could all see football on television then, not just those that are happy to be ripped off.

If the clubs still received the same amount for TV rights Flukey, what makes you think that a number of TV stations would not pursue the pay TV model to recoup their costs? Its the norm in many parts of Europe now, and Setanta are due to do it next season over here.

The Premier League would never allow two stations show the same match at the same time, which is the only realistic way to drive down prices.

Thats my final post on this thread, we're not only off-topic now we're miles off-forum!!!

Flukey

Setanta show them live and RTE have shown them on a few seconds delay before when Sky were showing them.



Roy Carroll should be charged with cheating, much as other players have been charged with similar offences which amount to the same thing.

Anyway, we should terminate this thread, as it is way off topic. Of course the soccer forum is restricted. A bit like Sky Sports really! Maybe one of you gentlemen would support a request for me to join the soccer forum.

Big Ears

Flukey wrote:

Roy Carroll should be charged with cheating, much as other players have been charged with similar offences which amount to the same thing.

But whats the exact name of the offense you want to charge him with ?
Failing to catch a ball ? , failing to stop that ball before it crossed the line ?

Jonny Arson

Flukey wrote:

Roy Carroll should be charged with cheating, much as other players have been charged with similar offences which amount to the same thing.

Anyway, we should terminate this thread, as it is way off topic. Of course the soccer forum is restricted. A bit like Sky Sports really! Maybe one of you gentlemen would support a request for me to join the soccer forum.

Why should anyone give you support to join the soccer forum when you accuse Roy Carroll of been a cheat. Could you please explain further as to why he is a cheat? I never knew making an error constituted as cheating.

If you want to join a good football forum check out.

Big Ears

Whats wrong with the football forum we already have ?

kaimera

can we please keep roy carroll etc out of the GAA forum please?

any more posts about it will be deleted on sight by me.
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Flukey

I don't think GAA has anything to fear from soccer. One of the great demonstrations of that was the following. In June and into July 1990, the whole country was captivated by Ireland's performance in the World Cup. In June and into July 1991 the whole country was captivated by the Dublin/Meath saga.

The Rooster

Iago wrote:

Niall Quinn gave a speech a few weeks ago at a dinner, and he recounted a tale from the World Cup in Italy. After Ireland were knocked out they were in the dressing room when in came a man in a fancy suit waxing lyrical about the brave Sons of Erin and how the country was proud etc etc.. Tony Cascarino asked Quinn "Hey Quinny, who the fcuk is that?" and Quinn responded "shut up and listen that's the Taoiseach"

Andy Townsend nudged Cascarino and said, "here, what did Quinny say, who is he?" to which Cascarino replied

"I don't know, but Quinny says he owns a tea shop or something"

Ah Yes, pride in the boys in green

Are we a bit naive Iago

A funny story maybe, but a lie nonetheless. Whatever about their Irishness, they were two of the more intelligent players to play for Ireland in recent years, and by 1990 they were well aware of what a Taoiseach was and who Charlie was.

Hippo

Has the GAA anything to fear from soccer? The GAA has to compete of course with other sports and maybe more than ever now because of television coverage of rugby and soccer...in Munster it's reasonable to assume that much of the competition will come from rugby because of the success of the team and because as a sport it offers the prospect of serious international competition. Most sports have to compete with soccer because it's the most popular sport in the world and most importantly for kids, the easiest to play. When you join that to the fact that an admittedly over-hyped but exciting league featuring a stack of top international players takes place next door of course people will watch it and as a consequence follow its teams. What's so hard to understand about that?

It seems to me that the GAA needs to look at getting its own house in order with regard certainly to the football issues. I don't much like the game, but even I can see that most matches at the top level are incredibly stop-start in their action because of the difficult-to-define 'personal foul', and that far more Gaelic footballers dive to the ground feigning injury than soccer players anywhere, even Italy. Perhaps if the flow of the game was improved more kids would want to play. Apologies if I'm wrong, for all I know the GAA clubs the length and breadth of the country are heaving with enthusiastic young players.

For the record I've been a Sheffield Wednesday and Shamrock Rovers supporter for over, er, 30 years, and believe me that ain't been easy!