Can Immigration + Gardai search house w/out warrant.

Kersh

Well can they?
A work colleague had Immaigration officials (3 of them) and Gardai (4 of them) search his whole house for 3 hours last night.
Can Gardai do this without a warrant? They fingertip searched the house.
He is not into drugs etc at all, so why did they do this?
he is a Romanian National with his family, His work permit expired.
I dont want this to become a immigration bating thread, I just want to know, have they the power to do this, esp the Gardai with their rubber gloves searching the house?

Kingp35

I'm not sure but in my opinion no but saying taht if he was working in this country without a work permit he is only asking for trouble.

Still it sounds a bit suspect to me. Take it up with a lawyer if u know anybody. Im sure there is another forum around that deals with legal issues

egan007

Not even the pope can come into your house uninvited
Private property is just as it says only the court can decide different.

Wertz

I know for a fact that Customs Officials can search and seize anything they think is contraband WITHOUT a warrant, but they CANNOT arrest you (they need a Gard to do that).

As Immigration are tied to Customs and Excise (possibly) they probably have similar powers. You'd really need to do a net search for the actual legalities of the case though...

Kersh

But the gardai turned his house upside down. Surely thay need a warrant? whatever about immigration officials.

Wertz

Kersh wrote:

But the gardai turned his house upside down. Surely thay need a warrant? whatever about immigration officials.

I'm no legal expert but if say, they were invited on to the property by the Immigration guys, then possibly not. It really depends on the circumastance I suppose.
Now if they found something and hadn't a warrant to enable them to seize it then it wouldn't stand up in any court. I'm honestly not sure why the gardaí would even be there besides acting as protection for the immigration officials...

Cactus Col

Did they find anything?

If I were you I'd advise your mate to contact a solicitor, if they searched his house they must suspect him (or one of his family) of something. Also somebody might have decided he is guilty of something, so having a solicitor to advise him of his rights is pretty essential.

Victor

Kersh wrote:

Can Gardai do this without a warrant? They fingertip searched the house. .... esp the Gardai with their rubber gloves searching the house?

Any search is likely to use rubber gloves, to preserve / prevent fingerprints and it means they can route through your washing basket with relative impunity. For 7 of them to be there for 3 hours means they were after something special in particular (whether your friend is aware of it or not). If they just wanted to to harrass him, they'd sent the local Branch around twice a week for 10 minutes. I suggest your friend talk to a solicitor (use www.flac.ie if necessary). I strongly suspect this might go further.

Wertz wrote:

As Immigration are tied to Customs and Excise (possibly)

Immigrationa re effectively gardaí (there are also civilians, but they won't be routing through your undies). The Revenue Customs Service is completely separate. Revenue can enter a home without a search warrant only if it is being used as a business or hold business records.

Ancient1

That's quite shocking actually. An expired work permit is no excuse, they must have been after something else.
I've been living, working and paying taxes here for years. If my employer didnt reapply for my permit in time (not that i would let him forget, but anyways), could i technically be subjected to the same harrassment? It's bullsh1t - the permit cannot have been the issue.

stagolee

unfortunatley in this country the guards can do what they like , look at the dame street "riots" , there was outrage there was complaints and legal actions and what came of it? nowt.
as someone mentioned earlier if they did find something it would cause complications for them in court if they hadnt had a warrant to search for it.
as far as whether they have a right to burst into your home and ransack it it all comes down to who you are. if your young , foreign or poor the odds are they wont take your rights too seriously because it is impossible to make a sucsessful legal case against the guards in this country without wealth and influence within the political or judicial system

Kersh

I think I agree with stagollee about the Gardai not caring cos of being young etc, but just to clarify a few things:

1) They found nothing.
2) He has no idea what they were looking for.
3) He lives there with his wife and 2 kids, aged 1 + 4.
4) They knocked on his door at 12 midnight, barged past him, pinned him to the wall, he asked them to be quiet as his kids were sleeping, they told him to shut the **** up, and were generally abusive. Thay asked who else was in the house, and then emptied all the drawers/presses etc. They were there for 3 hours. They told him his work permit expired.
5) They had no search paperwork, or any paperwork at all.

luckat

Kersh wrote:

I think I agree with stagollee about the Gardai not caring cos of being young etc, but just to clarify a few things:

1) They found nothing.
2) He has no idea what they were looking for.
3) He lives there with his wife and 2 kids, aged 1 + 4.
4) They knocked on his door at 12 midnight, barged past him, pinned him to the wall, he asked them to be quiet as his kids were sleeping, they told him to shut the **** up, and were generally abusive. Thay asked who else was in the house, and then emptied all the drawers/presses etc. They were there for 3 hours. They told him his work permit expired.
5) They had no search paperwork, or any paperwork at all.

Time for a solicitor, and maybe time to contact the papers.

Kersh

It looks like he will be going back to Romania...and the guy is one of the hardest workers in the place, paid all his taxes past 3 years, doesnt claim any welfare...and they do this...though he is trying to organise a new permit.

rander00

Im sure neither the guards and immigration lads pinned him to the wall or cursed at him! Why are you/him lying? Give him and his family my blessings and i hope he has a "safe" trip home to romania.

Ps: If hes stuck for cash for a ticket ill happily buy him a 1 way one, and ones for all the sproggs too. Afterall, it is christmas.

Kersh

Piss off causing ****e, I specifically asked that **** like that is not to be posted....ar5ehole.
Can some Mod please delete rander00s post, before this thread goes awol on the immigrant issue...

rander00

Ahh, stop ur crying. whingey biatch.

Coming on here lying about the gardai, then trying to get the mods here to sweep ur lies under the carpet. I was just pointing out that theres no smoke witout fire.

fragile

Has the proposed Garda Ombudsman come into existence yet? that could be worth a look.

Rander00 you might want to read up on some Irish history before you start complaining about immigration, and why do you automatically assume that original poster is not telling the truth about the Gardai?

Ciaran500

rander, STFU

You have no idea what happened, why are you accusing him of lying?

Kersh

Hes just a ar5ehole, ignore him...nolifer.

Victor

rander00 wrote:

I was just pointing out that theres no smoke witout fire.

Can I scream "miscarriage of justice" fast enough?

stagolee

fragile wrote:

Has the proposed Garda Ombudsman come into existence yet?

nah of course not that would mean some level of accountability, there will never be a truly independant police ombudsman in this country, the guards wont allow it. it was just another of the many promises that was thrown up by politicians to endear themselves to people, once the publics attention span had run out the politicians let the ombudsman idea quietly wither away to nothing

Stephen

rander00, it'd be better for all of us if you bought yourself a one-way ticket out of the country.

You tit.

dermot_sheehan

Your Friend was committing an offence under s. 2(1) of the Employment Permits Act 2003

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2003/a703.pdf

The guards therefore could apply for a warrant to search a premises where they believe evidence of the offence was being kept. However it seems unlikely that they would invoke this against your friend, and I doubt they would spend hours searching with gloves, this section is most likely designed to be used against employers of illegal immigrants.

It sounds like the guards had a warrant, but your friend did not ask to see it, they are under no obligation to show you the warrant if you do not ask for it. The situation where they can enter and search a dwelling without warrant is limited very strictly by the constitution. Basically if they think that human life is in danger, they may enter. Also if they think the perpretrator of an offence, or an offence is being committed on the premises, and they believe the offender will flee before they get a warrant, they may enter to arrest that person. Also if the person is destroying evidence of an offense, and there isn't time to get a warrant, they may enter without one.

These constitutional protections only apply to you when you're in your own house however.


If they entered without warrant, any evidence they seize is inadmissable unless there were extrordinary and excusing circumstances (that's how Curtin got off). Also your friend can sue them for assault and tresspass.

stagolee

gabhain7 wrote:

These constitutional protections only apply to you when you're in your own house however.

interesting, does that include rented accommodation or do you have to own the house?

jesus_thats_gre

The Gardai are too lazy to waste 3 hours searching a house just for the sake of it to be honest..

dermot_sheehan

stagolee wrote:

interesting, does that include rented accommodation or do you have to own the house?

This is going a bit off topic, but the Court of Criminal Appeal in DPP v. Bowes (25 Feb 2002) said the test was whether: "[the accused] was simply a transient visitor to the house".

Kersh

Just needed a few opinions.