Music Fascists...

DeVore

One thing I could never understand was music fascists.

So what if you cant stand N'Sync. Switch over to another station. Avoid tripping and accidentally buying their records. Personally I cant stand them either but I wouldnt think less of someone who liked them.

I listen to everything from Linkin Park (oh stop boooing at the back) to DJ Shadow to Orbital to The Cure and Suzie and the Banshees.

For me, music is an emotional experience. It has to alter my emotions for me to really like it. Make me angry (RATM), or energetic (Satan Live by Orbital), or relax me (Billy Holiday) or make me sad (The Hidden Garden).

Now, undoubtedly some if not all of you went "yeuuuuch!" at the mention of one of those popular beat-combos.

The point is, everyone is moved by different things.

Ok, so far so blatantly ****in obvious.

What I DONT get is the people for whom you cannot POSSIBLY be aloud to CONTINUE EXISTING if you

a. Dont like the band they like.

b. Like a band they hate.

and you MUST be converted to the RIGHT THINKING WAY immediately.

The fact is that much of this is because of "anti-fashion" too (bands being disliked because its cool to dislike them, rather then because you dont like their music).


I dunno, I really dont.

DeVore.

Winning Hand

It is my experience that the biggest music fascists are those who listen to underground stuff

"You mean you never heard of "Satans Revenge", you are so stupid, they are the best band ever" etc.

Those and radiohead fans
Probably trying to justify to themselves why the spent money on their avant-guarde albums

nesf

I find that alot of what you call music fascism has less to do with the music, but rather the stereotypical group that follows it. For example, the album of music created to represent the Succubus Club in Vampire The Masquerade. Now that would be classed as "goth" music by alot of ppl, but I like it, and i'm not a goth. But alot of, shall i say, pseudo-goths would use the knowledge of such music as a way of disseminating goths from the other groups.

This is obviously ludicrious, music taste is becoming to be governed by what you wear, where you come from, what group or groups you hang with. I hate this new culture of, if you listen to rave, you are a pill pushing, tracksuit wearing knacker, while if you listen to chart danse then you are an airhead, brainwashed by commercial forces and a product of the system.


I personally think that the issue that DeVore raised goes far beyond musical taste, but more into a method of excluding and/or branding other people that don't conform to your way of life.

Karl Hungus

DeVore... Most people like that are just taking the ****...

GOD I WISH THOSE ****ERS WOULD DIE!!! is just a joke, I mean... Would you seriously think that anyone is going to try and ****ing kill anyone?

...

Not me anyway...

I usualy say I'd like to start kicking in speakers when some crap like Boyzone comes on!


AND DON'T YOU ****ING TALK ABOUT SATAN'S REVENGE!!! THEY ARE ****ING BRILLIANT!!! SHAME ON YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THEM LIKE THAT!!! :P :P :P :P :P

Karl Hungus

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nesf:
This is obviously ludicrious, music taste is becoming to be governed by what you wear, where you come from, what group or groups you hang with. I hate this new culture of, if you listen to rave, you are a pill pushing, tracksuit wearing knacker, while if you listen to chart danse then you are an airhead, brainwashed by commercial forces and a product of the system.</font>

I totaly understand what you mean...

I mean, while in Dublin I had a run-in with those ********s that hang around in Temple bar...

Those supposed "Goths" who were nothing but a bunch of ******** skater kids and Nu-Metal fans...

I was actualy stopped a grilled by a couple of them!
Ggrrr...

Bascically it was like, hey, is saw you going in and out, and you had a different T-Shirt on...
Yes, I changed it...

It went from there to... "Dark Throne?" (As a question)

"No, man, Mayhem and Satyricon are way better."

and on like this for a bit...

When he started about drummers...
Naming a few I liked, he said I missed out on the drummer from Morbid Angel...

Which I went and said yeah, but the drummer from Nile is better, and the one from a couple of other bands...
I kinda stumped the dude after that.

WTF??? WHAT IS THIS ****???

Some kind of initiation???
"Hey, that guy might look cool, lets test him to see if he's "Cool" enough for our group."

And I'd bet if I turned around and said how much I like bands like NightWish, Type O Negative and Fields Of The Nephilim, he would have told me to **** off!

********s...

I mean, there was not one of those so-called "Goths" there that were actualy out at the goth club that I go to!

Miguel_Sanchez

Ah.. to be sixteen again when you could savagely cut someone down because they liked some ****ty band or other.

Personally I'll have to say that I wouldn't expect people to have heard of a lot of the bands I like, or if they have then I wouldn't expect them to like them.

It's just the way it is. I don't care if someone hates them or has never heard of them.

As long as they don't like Mark McCabe I won't harm them physically

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**** sympathy! I don't need your ****in' sympathy, man, I need my ****ing johnson!

Illkillya

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jeff_Lebowski:
I wouldn't expect people to have heard of a lot of the bands I like, or if they have then I wouldn't expect them to like them.</font>

This attitude annoys me more than the other. Fair enough if you don't expect people to have heard of your music... but you don't expect them to like that music? Why is that? you obviously see good qualities in the music, and that is why you like it... do you think other people are unable to appreciate what you would call good music?
the N'Sync fan who says everything else is ****e doesn't bother me, because at least hes not insulting you personally


[This message has been edited by Illkillya (edited 31-07-2001).]

nesf

I agree with Illkillya, I hate that attiude, even when it isn't meant to offend as in the above post. I had to put up, for years, with ppl who had this superior attidue over their music knowledge, esp in alternative. Now I have a broad music taste, so i had heard most of the bands they proclaimed their fanship of, but because I didn't fit into their group I would be called a wannabe fan because I hadn't bought every album from that band or I hadn't heard some ancient track of theirs. One guy became a die hard Soundgarden fan after they announced they were breaking up, just so he could say he was in mourning because of it!

Music knowledge is not a compeditive sport as some would have it, just because you can name the 3 guitarist for 1 track on some Nirvana album doesn't make you more of a fan than someone who just listens to the music and buys the records.

For instance, I once had an argument in a pub with a "friend" over his opinion below,

basically in his thinking if you went to a placebo concert (as it was in this case), wearing a sports jersey, football soccer or whatever, you were obviously not a true fan of the band. But I on the otherhand would be exempt from this, because he knew me, and although I played rugby, I was "deep" enough in his mind not to be a "jock".

Now this kind of attitude is ludicious aswell as non-sensical. How can anyone even defend such a veiwpoint?

Karl Hungus

Mostly I'd never say "Oh, You wouldn't like it..." unless I knew them...

But on the other hand...

I'm pretty sure that mostly everyone here would NOT like Mayhem.

Shiminay

DeV - I don't think I could've put it better myself.

I LOVE metal - if I were to pick a genre of music I liked, then that'd be it. That being said, I love all sorts of music - I've even been known to listen to House and Hard House (given the correct chemical additives *hic*).

It's not a good thing to want to hurt someone because of their taste in music (I often joke that I'll beat someone round the head for listening to something, but that's just for the laugh). I totally agree with what nesf is saying about it not just being about listening to the music, but the dress and general appearance. AngelWhore does indeed look like a Goth, but that's his choice (and stick to it Ken - it's up to you).
I have the long hair (and a tattoo of a Gibson SG that for the most part stays hidden), but that's the only thing that may associate me with Metal. It disprooves any of this bull that you have to wear whatever and look like whatever to be a "true" fan of your favourite music.

I can't STAND a lot of music - N'Synch, Steps, and all that other tripe that only homosexuals and little girls like (this is not a slander - loads of gay people love that sort of music because it's "I don't give a flying fluck" music which is their attitude). But I'm not about to get violent with someone because of it - they'll grow out of it

As for the "You probably wouldn't like it" line - I say this all the time because a majority of my friends wouldn't like what I listen to most of the time, so I'm saving them the trouble of having their ears blown away by some excessivly loud Soulfly or Metallica).

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All the best!
Dav
@B^)
So Bob Hoskins was about to roll a spliff when in walks Dana with her 3 foot Bong
[honey i] violated [the kids]
When the Beefy King arrives, I shall be paying homage with Puunack The Receiver in a haze of green curry.

nesf

Hmmm, reminds me of the anti-popular culture, where it's cool not to act cool and if you're not an atypical popular person than you're a true popular person.

Basically it originated as a defensive mechanism for the ppl who don't fit in. Now i'm not talking about the one's who are secure enough not to give a **** about fitting in but rather the insecure ppl who want to be popular deep down.

I'm not saying this is the case for you, Jimi, but there is alot of hostility towards "commercial" music because it is part of popular culture. I agree and I don't like most of it. But only because i don't find it aesthetically pleasing, I think you are looking for a moral/intellectual highground from which to defend your musical tastes from other ppl with more "social clout" or who are of more mainstream disposition. This is just conjecture, so pls don't construe this as an attack or insult.

Puck

One of the best things that was ever said/sung on the subject of musical taste is:

"It's your hips not your head that are swinging"

Propellerheads Featuring
Shirley Bassey "History Repeating"

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John (yes THE John!)
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."

WhiteWashMan

my favourite album at the moment is romeo and juliet by prokofiev
actually its been my favourite cd for about a year.
the only reason i play S&M by metallica in the car non stop is because i have it copied onto tape and i have no other good tapes

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Your Imps Demand Cable...

Tazz T

It doesn't matter what you like as long as you enjoy it. I'm a complete metalhead, but there's some genres of metal I totally can't get on with (nu-metal) but I love to talk to other people who enjoy it. When it comes down to it, music is more than something to listen to, it's something that brings people together. You meet people in gigs and bars and talk about music, even though you don't like the same bands and have a bit of craic. However, some people just take the **** out out of people cos they don't like what they like - and that's just silly. Just look at how many times this subject has raged on these boards.

Anyway, WTF, I'm off to Wacken in the morning.

black_wizardd

*Nods in agreement*.

AngelWhore -> Those guys don't sound like Nu-Metalers to me. Most Nu-Metalers wouldn't have a clue who DarkThrone/Mayhem/Satyricon/Nile/Morbid Angel are. Did they actually know about the bands, i.e members, albums etc. I can't believe that a Nu-Metal fan would like such raw Black Metal and not-so-raw Death Metal, maybe they read Lords of Chaos or something , that would explain how they heard of DarkThrone and Mayhem.

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But oh, no tears please, fear and pain may acompany death, but it is desire that sheperds its certainty, as we shall see...

[This message has been edited by black_wizardd (edited 01-08-2001).]

black_wizardd

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by AngelWhore:
I'm pretty sure that mostly everyone here would NOT like Mayhem.</font>

With the exception of me, of course hehe .

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But oh, no tears please, fear and pain may acompany death, but it is desire that sheperds its certainty, as we shall see...

Jimi-Spandex

Well smack my ass and call me a music facist

well i define myself as one, i have a reasoning. Music is to me as important as it seems to be to ye, its emotional. I listen to a broad selection of music, bebop jazz, classical, alternative rock, soul, to chillout music like air, dj shadow etc.,

I dislike metal of all varieties but can respect those who seem to have an understanding of it and listen to what would appear the more innovative side of the genre or at least have been listening to it longer than this "neu-metal" mong-nobbery thats around now.

I don't like commercial music(gah i hate using that word, it gets mis-understood, when i say commercial i mean music purely made to make money, nothing to expand the boundaries of music or even to do anything new, when i say it i don't mean music that sells well).

What gets my goat is people who can't explain their music choice relatively intelligently, something beyond the "oh they're lurvley" crap, people who listen to bands to be "hip" or "cool" or to seem normal and be popular.

i like the music i listen to because it has substance, its not shallow, they'rs more too it than some gimmick sample or some fagnites jumping around acting hard, some bimbo's half naked shecksy bodeh.

i feel there is no reason to buy music apart from the fact that you think its good, and you actually think its good not someone else getting you to fit into their ideals.

yes i have issues, mabye i think like this because i love music so much and have spent alot of time listening to it, playing it, writing it, and feel insulted that someone couldn't justify their liking of a particular genre/band/song/mong

let the beatings commence

black_wizardd

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tazz T:
Anyway, WTF, I'm off to Wacken in the morning.</font>

You lucky bastid. Next year...oh yes...next year...you'll see...oh you'll see .

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But oh, no tears please, fear and pain may acompany death, but it is desire that sheperds its certainty, as we shall see...

[This message has been edited by black_wizardd (edited 02-08-2001).]

Greenbean

"people who listen to bands to be "hip" or "cool" or to seem normal and be popular"

Its hard to figure out how could anyone listen to music for those reasons, but I'm sure we all know them.

I know a guy who would listen to good music, alternative music - I enjoyed it myself; eg radiohead the bends; he was the first to know about that and borrowed it to me etc. His musical tastes are good. The problem was nothing but alternative music would do. When himself and some friends would get together, these supposedly "open-minded because they would listen to alternative music" people were actually the opposite, they were elitist and on a high horse. They would never stay in the same room if you watched a football match, you couldn't play U2 because that was "commerical", regardless if it was good or not, you were pathetic if you didn't know of the bands they were talking about. Eh, well I've little time for all that - it doesn't anger me, its just I'm glad I don't see music as a huge defining aspect of a person.

Music is a huge thing in cultural and tribal identity and I think this is what was happening here. It helped like minded people to find each other, gather together and associate. Music is more than the sounds it makes, its a thumb print of what these people think as a group. Anyone different is to be shielded out by numbers - this is where you get the authoritarianism.

"romeo and juliet by prokofiev" - I've only got dance of the capuletti, I've been trying to find a full suite of that for ages wwwman. Its very good isn't it.

WhiteWashMan

ahh, ive only got the highlights version on cd. after all, it was only 2.99
but i like the montagues and the capulets the best. loved it since they used that music in some football highlights yoke at the end of the world cup in 90.

mind you, i like that gorillaz album. its kinda funky. anyone know who the chick in that is?

WhiteWashMan

ooops!
double post..

[This message has been edited by WhiteWashMan (edited 02-08-2001).]

Miguel_Sanchez

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Illkillya:
This attitude annoys me more than the other. Fair enough if you don't expect people to have heard of your music... but you don't expect them to like that music? Why is that? you obviously see good qualities in the music, and that is why you like it... do you think other people are unable to appreciate what you would call good music?</font>

I don't think these people would be unavble to appreciate the music I listen to. That's not what I meant at all. What I was trying to get across is that I'm so used to people saying "Never heard of them" or "Ah they're ****" that now I don't assume that anyone has heard of or likes them. I don't go around saying "You wouldn't like this band" to people and I would only say that if I had a fairly good knowledge of their musical taste.

Having said all that I'm pleasantly surprised when I meet someone that likes a more obscure or less popular band.

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**** sympathy! I don't need your ****in' sympathy, man, I need my ****ing johnson!

-Serpico-

Taste is a cultural construct, the product of enviromental factors, including education and enculturation, acting upon individuals. Music choice is a part of the phenomenon of taste, and is thus a culturally defined abstract.

I think it's naive to believe that anyone listens to music *just* because they have a direct emotional response to the notes being played. There are limitless factors governing taste, to which no one is immune. So of course those factors are going to have an effect on what music people like, or more correctly what they say they like.

I don't think there is anything wrong with liking a band because you think they're cool... I think, if we're really, really honest with ourselves, we all do that to a greater or lesser extent. Also, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who hates a band's music, but listens to it because they think it gives them some sort of cultural capital.

It's ALL about making yourself feel superior. "Music fascists" (I think music snobs is a better term) like to make themselves feel superior by belittling someone else's music taste. On the other hand, how many of you here in the anti-music-fascist camp felt oh sooo cool after posting about how open minded you are? Essentially, you did the same thing music snobs do, you deisplayed a superiority over others, by belittling something they do.

I'm not criticising anyone, I'm just saying that to me, it looks like you're all saying the same thing.

Serp

Karl Hungus

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by black_wizardd:
*Nods in agreement*.

AngelWhore -> Those guys don't sound like Nu-Metalers to me. Most Nu-Metalers wouldn't have a clue who DarkThrone/Mayhem/Satyricon/Nile/Morbid Angel are. Did they actually know about the bands, i.e members, albums etc. I can't believe that a Nu-Metal fan would like such raw Black Metal and not-so-raw Death Metal, maybe they read Lords of Chaos or something , that would explain how they heard of DarkThrone and Mayhem.

</font>

Yep, I kinda think so too...
Dey wus yung wans!

And yeah, I know you'd like Mayhem.
Thats why I said "Mostly everyone."


But, I would also say that people here would seem FAR more opinionated here in boards than they would be in real life.
This is a board for discussing, isn't it?

Anyway, Serp is definetly on the ball with that last comment.

Kairo

I agree, I'm totally against Fashcism!

What do people hope to achieve by telling you "ooh, that band sucks, your stupid because you like them"? Honestly...they're not gonna magically change that persons opinion on them. Fair enough if people say they dont like a certain band or type of music...but insulting the person for liking whatever is just wrong.

So please...no more "Uhhhh...that band is sooo gay...your sooo f*cking stupid!!!!"

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Life sucks, but does it swallow?

cournioni

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by AngelWhore:
I'm pretty sure that mostly everyone here would NOT like Mayhem.</font>

I like Mayhem.

amp

Music fascism as directed towards manufactured pop is entirely justified. I mean Hearsay? Steps? Britney Spears?

Round em up and put them in a dark, soundproof concentration camp. Now.

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Lunacy Abounds! GLminesweeper RO><ORS!
"Boxes for show, Baskets for a pro" - [FCA]SyxPak

Karl Hungus

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PORNAPSTER:
I like Mayhem.</font>

And thats why I said "Mostly" everyone!

And, yes, I would think Amp is right... Regaurding stuff like hear say and that junk, it's justified.

Qualm

Damit, why do i always get to topics really late. Devore, i think its spelled Souixie and the banshees, as in the souxe indians. or sumat like that

Sliotar

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">It's ALL about making yourself feel superior. "Music fascists" (I think music snobs is a better term) like to make themselves feel superior by belittling someone else's music taste. On the other hand, how many of you here in the anti-music-fascist camp felt oh sooo cool after posting about how open minded you are? Essentially, you did the same thing music snobs do, you deisplayed a superiority over others, by belittling something they do.</font>

ah, but you've just done the exact same thing. by pointing that out, you have taken a superior mindset to everyone else on this thread. and i guess by pointing that out to you, im superior...

i think you're right though, everyone wants to be superior in one way or another. but that is'nt such a bad thing. by trying to be superior, we better ourselves. the urge to do things better is responsible for nearly every advance man has made, but responcable for a lot of bad things as well...

mayhem#

mayhem#

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'm pretty sure that mostly everyone here would NOT like Mayhem.[/B]</font>

EXCUSE ME!!?