An Post Unions: Responsibility and Liability

cdebru

arcadegame2004 wrote:

T
I would rather send and receive communications via email rather than letters. It's so much more convenient. I don't agree that the Government should subsidise An Post. That will only make it even more complacent than before, resulting in bigger losses still..

good for you but we still need a postal system

so who do you think should subsidise the loss making public services that An post provide
or should they just cease to do anything that does not make a profit.

arcadegame2004 wrote:

They need to be smartened up. They need to learn to look after themselves in the big wide world. Handing them out "sweets" every time they get into trouble certainly won't work! They should be "spoiled" by the taxpayer. They need to learn from their mistakes and take responsibility for them! .

NO pay increase not even cost of living for nearly 2 years is hardly spoiling them at the moment.

they need to be paid for the essential public service that they provide.

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Bonkey, pensions should be sent by electronic-funds-tranfer and if An Post has any involvement in this, it should end because the unions must not be allowed another tentacle with which to strangle the people (metaphorically). I understand that competition in the postal-sector is due to be introduced in 2009, and I would hope that then we can all choose between An Post and other companies, including courier-companies, to deliver our mail. These companies could compete on the basis of stamp prices and prices for swiftpost and registered post ,postage and packaging etc..

brilliant so the money will be in their bank account how do they get it out of the bank
if you hadn't noticed the banks have already rationalised their branch network so alot of rural areas dont have banks or even an atm

yes but you ignored the point about universal service obligation An Post have it
it means they have to deliver your letter to the arsehole of nowhere even if they lose money by doing so
what happens when you go in to your courier company and say can you deliver this letter to the arse hole of nowhere tommorrow and they say yes that will be 100 euro because that is what it costs or **** off we dont want your business there is no profit in it
also if there is no money in rural post offices I cant see many private courier companies dashing out to open rural offices
so where will people who dont live in large towns and cities post there parcels and letters the rural post offices will be gone as you dont see the need for them

MrPudding

cdebru wrote:

NO pay increase not even cost of living for nearly 2 years is hardly spoiling them at the moment.

If you worked in HP you would find yourself without a pay rise for the last 4 years. Many companies cannot afford to give a payrise, their staff do not go on strike.

Of course this could easily be taken as a strong arguement for union representation. Perhaps if HP was more unionised there would be a payrise somewhere?

The unions get a bit of a bad rep here I think. I personally have no time for them. I am willing to admit that a large part of the reason for this is the stories we hear, like a strike cos the management installed a new more efficient machine without asking staff if it was OK or unionised painters getting double time if they use a roller as they are considered to be doing the work of 2 men.

I freely admit that they undoubtedly do some good work. It is the way they go about it that most people don't like. I work in IT, so do most of my friends. The way state and semi state workers seem to want to go on strike at the drop of a hat when they seem to have reasonably good work conditions and great pension is, frankly, a little offensive to ordinary workers.

MrP

cdebru

MrPudding wrote:

If you worked in HP you would find yourself without a pay rise for the last 4 years. Many companies cannot afford to give a payrise, their staff do not go on strike.

Of course this could easily be taken as a strong arguement for union representation. Perhaps if HP was more unionised there would be a payrise somewhere?

The unions get a bit of a bad rep here I think. I personally have no time for them. I am willing to admit that a large part of the reason for this is the stories we hear, like a strike cos the management installed a new more efficient machine without asking staff if it was OK or unionised painters getting double time if they use a roller as they are considered to be doing the work of 2 men.

I freely admit that they undoubtedly do some good work. It is the way they go about it that most people don't like. I work in IT, so do most of my friends. The way state and semi state workers seem to want to go on strike at the drop of a hat when they seem to have reasonably good work conditions and great pension is, frankly, a little offensive to ordinary workers.

MrP

you are making alot of presumptions like that all semi state workers have a great pension
that they want to go on strike at the drop of a hat

both of these are untrue no one likes going on strike the reason you presume semistate workers strike more is because it affects more people when they do strike or threaten to strike
no offence but if every one in hp went on strike it wouldn't affect many people

the term ordinary workers I find offensive what are workers in semi state companies

the other point is were do you hear these stories about unions from the media
your newspapers television
then ask yourself who owns the media and is it in their interest for you to have a low opinion of unions
the union is made up of its members it is there to represent the worker anything the union does should be in the best interest of its members and its members ultimately decide who represents them

arcadegame2004

the union is made up of its members it is there to represent the worker anything the union does should be in the best interest of its members and its members ultimately decide who represents them

Well I sometimes feel that these strikes in the public-sector are preplanned by trade-union bosses anxious to provoke a confrontation so that they can then claim to be "standing up for workers" when their posts in the union comes up for re-election.

cdebru

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Well I sometimes feel that these strikes in the public-sector are preplanned by trade-union bosses anxious to provoke a confrontation so that they can then claim to be "standing up for workers" when their posts in the union comes up for re-election.

you sometimes feel can you give us an example of that
when did this happen
can you give one example of when this happened

In actual fact if anything the unions are slow to strike in semi state companies
alot of trade unions in semi state companies are anxious to keep the companies state owned so they try not to rock the boat as much as they can.

arcadegame2004

alot of trade unions in semi state companies are anxious to keep the companies state owned so they try not to rock the boat as much as they can.

Yes that's true. So much for it being about concern over the quality of service.

arcadegame2004

arcadegame2004 wrote:

The Luddites would have argued that they too were being very productive for human-beings and that new technology introduced at the time of the industrial-revolution should therefore not have been introduced.

Well I don't think it's fair that my local postman should have to deliver to 800 more homes for what is in real terms less money.
He has markedly increased productivity.

I would rather send and receive communications via email rather than letters.

I would rather the sun shone every day and it rained while I'm asleep.
How do you propose to get everyone to switch over to email?
My Aunt Doris ain't gonna do it , neither are hundreds of thousands,so are you advocating abolishing surface mail then?
Good luck with that, it isn't a runner.

I don't agree that the Government should subsidise An Post. That will only make it even more complacent than before, resulting in bigger losses still.

Rubbish,it only needs the funds to run an adequate service, the subvention would and should be monitored and the service regulated/controlled.
Making it completely commercial by charging the earth for surface mail and making people in non economic postal areas collect their post would be both anti social and publically unacceptable.
There are services worth maintaining, you know and this is one of them in my view.

They need to learn to look after themselves in the big wide world. Handing them out "sweets" every time they get into trouble certainly won't work! They should be "spoiled" by the taxpayer. They need to learn from their mistakes and take responsibility for them!

Yeah maybe we should apply that to the roads network, make them all toll roads,Charge a €100 per car per trip on the country roads as they aren't used as much , make them completely commercial, it would be for the good-can't have public money wasted on Tar.
Rural economies would flourish... :rolleyes:

arcadegame2004

Rubbish,it only needs the funds to run an adequate service, the subvention would and should be monitored and the service regulated/controlled.

I believe in supply and demand economics. I don't think that a service that the public doesn't want has some divine right to access the public purse.

Email and couriers are the future. An Post should compete against them. And we won't be charged "the earth" as someone here said. Competition will keep prices down for stamps, and P+P.

arcadegame2004

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I believe in supply and demand economics. I don't think that a service that the public doesn't want has some divine right to access the public purse.

I see and the public doesn't want a rural postal service.
Eh what do you base that on?

Competition will keep prices down for stamps, and P+P.

More rubbish, what commercial company in their right mind would tender for a costly rural service if there was no public subvention.
Ergo your model would have us all move to the cities, we couldn't afford to live in the country.
I suppose you think people in the country should pay more for their electricity too because they are on the end of a long line and all those poles have to be maintained.
Lets all move to the towns so.
Country people listen up Arcade game wants you out or he'll charge you... :rolleyes:

cdebru

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Yes that's true. So much for it being about concern over the quality of service.

so you accept your orignal state was a pile of horse manure

arcadegame2004

cdebru wrote:

so you accept your orignal state was a pile of horse manure

No why? I don't see any contradiction in what I am saying. Do you? How?

cdebru

arcadegame2004 wrote:

No why? I don't see any contradiction in what I am saying. Do you? How?

you suggested that unions in semi states contrive strikes

i told you they didn't as they prefer not to rock the boat

you said true

Nuttzz

since the introduction of the partnership process the level of union strikes in semi state & private companies has been a lot lower than before this process. I dont see the sense in the arguement that a union would go on strike for the sake of it.

http://www.cso.ie/publications/labour/disputes.pdf

Nuttzz

Nuttzz wrote:

I dont see the sense in the arguement that a union would go on strike for the sake of it.

I don't believe that unions simply go on strike for the sake of it. Doing so reduces the effectiveness of a strike.

However, strikes have become the first weapon of choice for unions within state companies, and this is my gripe. They have a job thats more secure than private employees, with gradual increases in pay. If I went on strike, I'd be out of a job within days. The company I work for would just hire someone to replace me. And thats the proper way of things. Businesses are created to make money, not to provide for the employees. Otherwise the employees would BE the owners/management.

We don't live in the dark ages. Workers are not discriminated against the way they were in the start of the 1900's. They have protections within the Law. A union can be the answer for workers, or an employee can get a lawyer.

I'm happy i have a job. I've earned it. And I earn the right to have that job by being in work every day, with the desire that my company succeeds. And as my company succeeds so do I. If we're profitable I'll hope for a pay rise, if we're losing money, I'm not going to demand that pay rise. I'm being realistic, since there's no Government agency to bail out the company. And thats the problem with state employees. They expect the government to bail the company out of trouble. Unfortuently, the rest of us pay the bills for that relief in taxes, or the effects that strike will ahve on the company we work for.

I'm being selfish with this thread. I'm looking aqt my own job security. I'm against any movement that jepordises my status. And a strike by a Government Monopoly means Hazard signs for small companies, and that annoys the hell out of me.

So I believe that Unions have the right to strike. I also believe that if the An Post Unions **** up An Post with their strikes or issues, the Government should not bail out the company. State unions need a wake-up call. That they need to consider the effects of their actions on the longevity of the organisation and its ability to generate monies.

Alternative to An Post? I don't know. But I'm against any company that can be held to ransom by a union. especially if that company has such an influence over the whole country.

More rubbish, what commercial company in their right mind would tender for a costly rural service if there was no public subvention.

ditto. I aqree. But a state run company is no longer feasible. Its been losing money consistently for years, with increasing charges to customers. A company thats run by a business (one's whose aim is purely profit) may be able to provide the service where An Post is failing.

Since the last strike I've had over five envelopes posted just prior to the strike disappear. I've had reliable clients say that they posted payment three weeks ago, and yet they haven't arrived. An Post is no longer reliable. And these strikes don't make it any more so.