Bullbars on vans? void insurance?

Squirrel

You can only get done after an accident for having a dangerous modification on your car, bit stupid that. In the case of the jag you could get sued for injuries. You should ask a guard what your chances were should you sue the hiace driver. You can be stung for less...

mike65

Just to add another wrinkle, I suspect that if the van owner modified his vehicle without any appropriate insurance cover and was involved in an accident then the victim of his modification can sue for damages.

As for Bull Bars, I have found a load of different dates for the introduction of a ban, the latest is 2005. http://irishcar.com/bullbars251102.htm,
www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/14877990?source=Evening%20Standard

And this from an EU proposal its a long read but the detail is in there!

Mike.

Tommy Vercetti

tbh offer him €3.5 and put it down to experience. If you start talking about courts, you can be sure that his neck is gonna start getting very painful. At the end of the day, your wife was at fault, but at least she wasn't hurt, and she'll have learned a valuable lesson.

Seth Brundle

If you offer them anything, ensure that there is a clause stating that this is the end of the affair and any further claims will not occur (e.g. whiplash, etc.)!

shagman

I think the wording should be " in complete and final settlement" . Anyway this tread has got me thinking .....maybe I'll remove those bullbars off the front of mine. Don't think it'll make all that much difference though at 3350kg with no crumple zones .....still saves me getting them rechromed as they're a bit rusty and might save the life of a biker. Oh and before you lot start no I didn't add them on and they are not an aftermarket add on, they're stock. From before the time of silly rules about "safety" and the like!!

unkel

shagman wrote:

at 3350kg with no crumple zones

:eek: What that?

Armoured LaRo Disco or similar monstrosity?

BrianD3

Armoured LaRo Disco or similar monstrosity

I believe it's some sort of Chevy truck he has. A proper Chevy, not one of those Daewoo Chevys

BrianD3

pollyantic

Why dont you just go through your insurance?
It wont cost you as much as you think.
Most people think going through their insurance company is a lot more expensive than it really is.
Call your insurance company, ask them how much will be added onto your policy for the next 5 years and work it out from there whether or not to go through them.

uberwolf

BrianD3 wrote:

The bullbar undoubtedly increased the damage to MR DAZ's missus' car. However it may also have increased the damage to the van. I'm not entirely sure where these bullbars attach to but I'd guess it's the chassis rails or subframe. Either of these could easily be bent if an impact is transmitted into them through a solid bullbar. The result would be the vehicle being uneconomic to repair despite it having outwardly very little damage.

BrianD3

if the modification were illegal - as it may very well be, they're not liable for the increased damage caused to his van by his actions.
Of course the spirit here is that she was liable for the accident, but after being caused more damage then it should because of the bull bars they are entitled to seek to pretect themselves. If your mans van is damaged because he modified it illegaly as I see it it's his tough break. I've no sympathy with him because he's trying to screw him

MR DAZ

Rander00........Can you not read???? Or are you just to lazy and you find it easier to throw abuse?

We have accepted that it was "our" fault and are prepared to pay for it...

Its going through the insurance now....

All I was looking for was some info to see what the story is with the bullbars.

The guy in the van deserves Compansation .....and he will get it.....hopefully no more no less.


So all these stupid comments about trying to wriggle out of it..........WE'RE NOT...


And if you must know......The guy in the van changed the amount he was looking for from € 5000 down to €3000 after he heard the insurance company we're dealing with it.

SO PLEASE TELL ME IF I'M WRONG..........BUT WHO'S SCREWING WHO?

Boggle

Its a lot of messing but I'm guessing that his insurance doesn't cover his bull bars(he probably didn't mention them). Offer to replace the van for him (fair price as she was at fault) and if he starts pissing you around looking for pers inj claims then what you can do is get the wife to sue him personally for any injuries deemed to be caused/worsened by the bullbars. ...Think he'll fancy defending himself in court? ...

eth0_

rander00 wrote:

Errrrr,,,, the [abuse edited] drove into him.
He has the bar fitted to protect his van from arse-holes speeding and failing to stop at T junctions. And the bar did just that. "Protected him).

Even if he didnt have a bullbar ther`d have been a lot of damage. The bull bar didnt write it off.

DOn't be such a moron. Bullbars are illegal in this country for VERY good reason. Because they KILL PEOPLE that otherwise would probably not be seriously injured when hit by a vehicle. I don't see how a bullbar could protect someone if a van or a lorry hit them head on. Surely it would add to the force ramming the engine into the drivers compartment!

Squirrel

MR DAZ wrote:

If you must know......The guy in the van changed the amount he was looking for from € 5000 down to €3000 after he heard the insurance company we're dealing with it.

SO PLEASE TELL ME IF I'M WRONG..........BUT WHO'S SCREWING WHO?

There's no doubt hes trying to screw you but he could have got the bull bars before any laws were proposed and he could have had them for a proper reason. Just pay him and forget about it. And hopefully your wife doesnt get any after effects

eth0_

Even if he had bull bars before the legislation came in, he should have had them removed, that is the law.

lomb

just pay him and b thankfull 3-5k is not alot. my mums been in accidents where the cars didnt look bad and the payouts including solictors/court fees were 100k + . 5000 isnt alot when u think about it.

CJhaughey

There is no legislation regarding retrofitted bullbars.
The existing EU legislation covers manufacturers fitting bullbars as standard to vehicles.
You have to be aware that not all people with bullbars drive in Dublin ,on many backroads in this country you will encounter animals on the road, These instances are what the Bullbar was designed for.
As a motorcyclist I totally agree that in many instances 'bars are are not necessary or even desirable but maybe all you city types should be looking for a compromise similar to the French.
They have banned 'bars in the city but not in the countryside.
In my case 'bars have saved me a lot of money through preventing damage caused by hitting a Deer, I mean who do I claim off if a deer destroys the front of my Jeep?
Please stop thinking in a purely urban sense and think like citizens of this Island.

BrianD3

No CJhaughey, bullbars are not necessary even in rural areas. Bullbars (or 'roo bars as they call them in Oz) *may* reduce damage if the vehicle hits a relatively tall, relatively light animal such as a deer or kangaroo. Hit a badger, fox, dog, sheep, goat, cat in a 4x4 and the animal will be be below the level of the bar, rendering it useless. Hit a tall heavy animnal such as a cow or horse and the bullbar will not prevent the vehicle getting wrecked and/or the animal coming up onto the bonnet and through the windscreen.

In any case, drivers should be expecting hazards such as animals on country roads and should drive at a speed which takes account of this. How is it than in ten years of driving (~200k miles, most of it on country roads) my roadkill tally is a couple of rabbits. I've lost count of the number of cows, deer, sheep, dogs that I've managed to avoid

I find that many of the people who fit bullbars are pig ignorant rednecks who will deliberately run over anything they see in the road. Same kind of people who shoot at road signs IME. I know this as I'm not a "city type" as CJhaughey puts it.

BrianD3

CrowdedHouse

BrianD3 wrote:

In any case, drivers should be expecting hazards such as animals on country roads and should drive at a speed which takes account of this. How is it than in ten years of driving (~200k miles, most of it on country roads) my roadkill tally is a couple of rabbits. I've lost count of the number of cows, deer, sheep, dogs that I've managed to avoid

I find that many of the people who fit bullbars are pig ignorant rednecks who will deliberately run over anything they see in the road. Same kind of people who shoot at road signs IME. I know this as I'm not a "city type" as CJhaughey puts it.

BrianD3

FAIR PLAY TO YA BRIAND3........very well said lad.......anyone with bullbars or as I prefer- 'I'm clumsy and dangerous driver bars' should be arrested and their vehicles crushed

Victor

CJhaughey wrote:

I mean who do I claim off if a deer destroys the front of my Jeep?

Your insurance company.

CJhaughey

BrianD3 wrote:

No CJhaughey, bullbars are not necessary even in rural areas.

Fair enough, Your opinion is always valuable.

BrianD3 wrote:

Bullbars (or 'roo bars as they call them in Oz) *may* reduce damage if the vehicle hits a relatively tall, relatively light animal such as a deer or kangaroo.

That is why I have the bars fitted, IME glass headlights are always are weaker than 2.5 inch pipe.

BrianD3 wrote:

Hit a badger, fox, dog, sheep, goat, cat in a 4x4 and the animal will be be below the level of the bar, rendering it useless. Hit a tall heavy animnal such as a cow or horse and the bullbar will not prevent the vehicle getting wrecked and/or the animal coming up onto the bonnet and through the windscreen.

True and who wants to look like a refugee from a Mad max movie anyway.No bar can prevent all conceivable accidents

BrianD3 wrote:

In any case, drivers should be expecting hazards such as animals on country roads and should drive at a speed which takes account of this.

True

BrianD3 wrote:

How is it than in ten years of driving (~200k miles, most of it on country roads) my roadkill tally is a couple of rabbits. I've lost count of the number of cows, deer, sheep, dogs that I've managed to avoid

Dunno maybe Luck? maybe you don't drive at night? maybe you are a rally driver? who knows

BrianD3 wrote:

I find that many of the people who fit bullbars are pig ignorant rednecks who will deliberately run over anything they see in the road. Same kind of people who shoot at road signs IME. I know this as I'm not a "city type" as CJhaughey puts it.
BrianD3

Lets not resort to name calling and generalisations shall we?
try and keep things civil.

CJhaughey

Victor wrote:

Your insurance company.

yeah right!! You must have better dealings with Ins. companies than me.
Who in their right mind would lose a Full NCB because of a deer?
you can purchase cheap insurance in the form of a nice bullbar for much less than the cost of insurance hikes every year.
An animal such as a cow or horse will usually have ID allowing you to make a claim against an owner.
Deer don't really belong to anyone.

BrianD3

Lets not resort to name calling and generalisations shall we?
try and keep things civil.

Maybe what I wrote was a little strong. It wasn't aimed at youself or at anyone in particular. However I do know of people with massive home-made bullbars on their jeeps who are exactly as I described.

Also, I stand by everything else I've written in this thread re: bullbars and the damage they cause and their usefulness.

BrianD3

the_syco

A couple of things; when you crash your car, you look @ how much you bought it, and minus a bit. You don't look in the buy&sell to see how much you can get a car the exact same as your old one.

What I'm saying is, give the guy the benifit of the doubt. He may not know his van is only worth €3000. To him, he may think that the van cost him €12000, so he halves it, and gets €5000. Remember, it may not be how much an old van costs, but how much it cost him to buy it in the first place.

Not everyone knows that their pride and joy is a piece of wreck being sold for €200 in the buy&sell :rolleyes:

Squirrel

CJhaughey wrote:

yeah right!! You must have better dealings with Ins. companies than me.
Who in their right mind would lose a Full NCB because of a deer?
you can purchase cheap insurance in the form of a nice bullbar for much less than the cost of insurance hikes every year.
An animal such as a cow or horse will usually have ID allowing you to make a claim against an owner.
Deer don't really belong to anyone.

But what about your precious bullbars when they get damaged. If you want better insurance against damage, learn how to drive properly and avoid the animals

CJhaughey

Squirrel wrote:

But what about your precious bullbars when they get damaged. If you want better insurance against damage, learn how to drive properly and avoid the animals

I have never hit a squirrel ......yet

Squirrel

CJhaughey wrote:

I have never hit a squirrel ......yet

Oh my god you're so funny, I almost died laughing.
I'm so glad you have dropped to offending 15 year olds, how does it feel?

CJhaughey

Squirrel wrote:

Oh my god you're so funny, I almost died laughing.
I'm so glad you have dropped to offending 15 year olds, how does it feel?

How does what feel? Offending 15 yr olds or hitting squirrels?

Squirrel

bit of both maybe

OfflerCrocGod

Squirrel wrote:

bit of both maybe

Please stop using pink writing.

Capt'n Midnight

I've heard that in Oz when you hit a kangeroo with roo bars at speed it bursts.

The law states that you must drive at a speed such that you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear, as others have pointed out roo bars are only of use if the animal you hit has it's centre of gravity near the centre of the bars. - Since you can sue farmers for damage caused by thier uncontrolled animals and the county councils for damage caused by wild animals not being kept in by fences it would seem the only use for roo bars is what they were designed for preventing non-structural damage to the vehicle by causing massive structrual damage to bipeds.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2000/08/bullbars.html
nice overview - including a bit about making them of compressible plastic - that's right you don't need "killer grills" to protect your SUV.

There are two types of SUV drivers, those who need them for off road use and those who have very little consideration for the lives and rights of others.