Parliamentary Questions

Sparks

From today:

*310. To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if, with regard to the
recently published bill on the use of firearms, he has received correspondence from an
organisation (details supplied); if he has responded to them; if he will meet them to discuss
their concerns; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — P. J. Sheehan. [26235/09]

Sparks

Answer up:

P J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
Question 310: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if, with regard to the recently published bill on the use of firearms, he has received correspondence from an organisation (details supplied); if he has responded to them; if he will meet them to discuss their concerns; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26235/09]

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail): My proposals on firearms control measures were announced last November and are contained in the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009 which completed Committee Stage on 18 June 2009. I have received and responded to the correspondence from the organisation referred to by the Deputy.

I also met with the Firearms Consultative Panel three weeks ago and listened to their views. While I undertook to reflect on the points they made, I reiterated the Government’s reasons for restricting access to handguns. I have always made it clear that this ban was not brought forward in the context of tackling gangland crime. The situation which has come about in recent years was not as the result of any considered policy decision and, in particular, it has been made clear that the Government does not wish a handgun culture to take hold here. I consider that handguns are different because they are easy to conceal, because they can discharge a large number of bullets rapidly and because they feature so often in gun rampages. It is after such rampages that gun laws are invariably tightened up as can be seen in many countries around the world. Experience in other countries shows us that any relaxation of controls on gun ownership very quickly results in dramatic growth in firearms with many longer term negative downstream consequences.

While it is not my function to create a hierarchy of merit among the various target shooting disciplines, Olympic shooting activities would be generally recognised as being in a special category. At the other end of the spectrum not all shooting activities are as legitimate and credible as some of their proponents would claim them to be.

With the passage of this Bill, while the law will be tighter, people who hold firearms now will be able to apply to licence their firearm under the new licensing system. The Garda Commissioner will have the additional powers he needs to address matters relating to firearms licensing.

I am conscious, however, of the medium and longer term strategic and developmental issues for shooting sports in Ireland and as a result of my meeting with the Panel I have written to the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism in relation to a number of points.

chem

AHERN: the one line minister :rolleyes:

Sikamick

Here we have two statements made by Minster Ahern on two different occasions and if I am reading it right they contradict one and other. Either the ban has to do with gun crime or it hasint.

Sikamick
_________________________________________________________________

Minister plans to bring in handgun ban
MICHAEL O'REGAN

A BAN on handguns was signalled by Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern .

"My bottom line is this: while I recognise that the vast majority of handgun owners are responsible people, as Minister my concern is the safety of the public, particularly at a time of concern about gun crime," said Mr Ahern.

© 2008 The Irish Times
_________________________________________________________________

I also met with the Firearms Consultative Panel three weeks ago and listened to their views. While I undertook to reflect on the points they made, I reiterated the Government’s reasons for restricting access to handguns.

I have always made it clear that this ban was not brought forward in the context of tackling gangland crime.

_________________________________________________________________

What say you.


Sikamick

Sparks

From Wednesday:

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
Question 214: To ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism his view on a matter (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26540/09]

Martin Cullen (Minister, Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism; Waterford, Fianna Fail): As the Deputy will be aware the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009, which contains restrictions on handguns, is currently before the Houses of the Oireachtas. The Department of Justice has informed me that they have liaised closely with the sports shooting groups, through the Firearms Consultative Panel (FCP), over the past 18 months and there has been considerable discussion on many aspects of shooting sports.

My colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has recently forwarded to me a submission in relation to some issues which have arisen in relation to target shooting arising from his meeting with the FCP. I am arranging for my Department to examine the issues and to liaise with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on them.

Grizzly 45

have always made it clear that this ban was not brought forward in the context of tackling gangland crime.

Why announce it then on the week that S Greoghan was shot as a crime preventative measure in the Dail then ???
Or was he just cynically using a tragedy for a handy peg to hang his crusade on? Plenty of gangland hoods were shot in the meantime before Greoghan.Obviously because they didnt play rugby for Limerick,their lives are a lot less woth bringing in handgun bans for.:rolleyes::mad:

Why in May 2008,does he say as the ASGI conference that he is concerned about the "dramatic",increase in handgun liscenses and that he intended to tighten this up? All 2008 he is sounding off on this,and it is ignored or not acted on by the shooting organisations.:rolleyes:


Just wondering...Has this man suffered some sort of family or friend loss or tragedy thru firearms??No one could be this obstinate and hateful about a group of people unless they had very good reason.??

It is after such rampages that gun laws are invariably tightened up as can be seen in many countries around the world.

Really??Like France,Germany and Belguim??There is tightning up of law to deny access to or banning an item outright .Lets learn to differentiate Minister Aherne!

Do have a read Ahernes letter to P&B quieries in the criminal misc bill thread. A few paragraphs left out make intresting reading.
Like PP being a "vocal minority" and "not repersentative of the views of the FCP".
And by "the liberal standards of the gun laws of the US.Practical pistol is regarded as an extreme activity".

What is with this damn perputal comparision with the USA??:rolleyes:

I wonder what Dermo and the DOJ in all their innocence would make of a concealed carry permit class,defensive pistol competition,tri gun matches,or sniper parcourse competitions?All considerd legal andVERY normal activities in which civillians,mingle and SHOCK ! HORROR!! Compete and actually TALK !!!to current law enforcement and military personel ,wether repersenting their units or police dept in a private or professional capacity.

There is one missing pargraph between paragraph 2&3 in Sparks post,but is there in P&Bs offical reply.There Dermo goes off about undesireable shooting practises,a sudden demand for high powerd pistols,assault rifles,pistol gripped shotguns,the Oircheteas libary having this kill,no kill shoot/no shoot info on PP targets which shows that this is a combatative sport.Read it yoorselves it is just more of the same old BulSHT!:rolleyes:

One things for sure now Fianna Fail has got to go out of Govt.The sooner the better,before they totally destroy this country with well meaning but totally incompetant plans and laws.:mad:

bunny shooter

Grizzly, I personally am tired of reading your monotonous rhetoric :rolleyes: Your starting to sound more and more like a politican

I think at this stage, despite all our efforts, we all know that we are in trouble, most of us know why, and tbh there isn't a lot more we can do unless there is some way to get this legislation repealed, which is not likely .

There has been some small progress through the FCP process, namely the FPU, Range Inspector (maybe), 3 x year licences, tightening of conditions to hold a firearms licence (to stop people joining clubs for a year just to get a licence etc.)

Those from the shooting organisations on the FCP have done their best, might not have been good enough in some regards, but I think they were playing against a stacked deck from the start. Personally, I would like to say thanks lads.

The commercial interests seem to have done fairly well from it too but no surprise there

The future of the shooting sports does not look good but things are better than they were a few short years ago. Those shooting only a short time don't appreciate how far things have progressed in a few short years.

We are near the "end game" now, hopefully. The interpretation the Minister and Garda Commissioner puts on their new powers will in my opinion be determined by the shooting communities willingness to accept that it is not going to be possible to licence everything we'd like to licence.

Sikamick

Grizzly the question I asked was, has the Ban to do with crime or not, please look at my full post.

I don't know why you keep bringing up PP, the organisation acting in very responsible way has ceased the practice in the interest of all the other pistol shooters in the country, unfortunately there are a small group of people that care for no one but themselves and continue to do it.

The people that brought the original cases did so in the interest of pistol target shooting and they are extremely annoyed and rightly so that the continuing practice of PP could cause a complete Ban.

By continually bringing up the comparison that the Minister is making between Irish shooters and the USA shooting culture you only give credence to his argument. He is well aware of the feelings of the shooting fraternity here in Ireland.


Sikamick

Sikamick

bunny shooter wrote: »

Grizzly,

The future of the shooting sports does not look good but things are better than they were a few short years ago. Those shooting only a short time don't appreciate how far things have progressed in a few short years.

______________________________________________________________

Bunny Shooter, I waited from 72 to 2004 to see pistols come back, I got a pistol and have got rid of it because of the continuous problems and infighting that it caused within the shooting sports. I am involved in shooting/hunting since 1970 and am involved in pistol target shooting through our club 3 years now and it is the worse thing I ever got into because of as stated above.

Re The Money hungry vultures that pistol shooting brought into the shooting sports, we have paid way over the top for our Pistols and are still paying way over the top for our ammo.

Safety Pistols courses that are not recognised here and we had to pay for, (Bu**sh**), Clubs are responsible to see that their members are giving safety courses free of charge.

We did not have range inspectors or have the need to have clubs Licenced before 2004, unfortunately a small group out there that have brought the EYE on all of us are responsible.

Sikamick

Grizzly 45

Grizzly, I personally am tired of reading your monotonous rhetoric :rolleyes: Your starting to sound more and more like a politican

Well, dont read it then! Sorry if the truth hurts.

I think at this stage, despite all our efforts, we all know that we are in trouble, most of us know why, and tbh there isn't a lot more we can do unless there is some way to get this legislation repealed, which is not likely .

There has been some small progress through the FCP process, namely the FPU, Range Inspector (maybe), 3 x year licences, tightening of conditions to hold a firearms licence (to stop people joining clubs for a year just to get a licence etc.)

In theory maybe..But the devil is in the detail..We dont know anything about the FPU,and all that we have seen sofar is negative statements from their personel about shooting and ownership.The 3 year liscense,well I'd be amazed if it is operative by the end of this month,and what exactly is the benefit?We are liscensing the gun still not the man.And paying more for the effort,and proavbly also compromising our security by having our details handed to a 3rd party.

Those from the shooting organisations on the FCP have done their best, might not have been good enough in some regards, but I think they were playing against a stacked deck from the start. Personally, I would like to say thanks lads.

Indded,but I think the FCP was a sop thrown to us.No legislative power,not a NGB,doesent produce an annaul report."advises " the minister /DOJ,which means not very much in reality.

The commercial interests seem to have done fairly well from it too but no surprise there

Fact,to the point of a Cosy cartel.

The future of the shooting sports does not look good but things are better than they were a few short years ago. Those shooting only a short time don't appreciate how far things have progressed in a few short years.

If you call this progressive..What do you call regressive???:eek:

We are near the "end game" now, hopefully. The interpretation the Minister and Garda Commissioner puts on their new powers will in my opinion be determined by the shooting communities willingness to accept that it is not going to be possible to licence everything we'd like to licence.

Well, we really dont have much of a choice do we??:mad:
Liscense everything eh...Full bore pistols NO, 22 pistols NO,reloading,proably...NO,
Semi auto rifles,and shotguns over 3shots....proably so difficult as good as NO.
practical pistol BANNED..But pleae continue in airsoft if you want.:rolleyes:
So whats left??Welcome back to 1972 more like!

dismayed

PP, the organisation acting in very responsible way has ceased the practice in the interest of all the other pistol shooters in the country, unfortunately there are a small group of people that care for no one but themselves and continue to do it.

The people that brought the original cases did so in the interest of pistol target shooting and they are extremely annoyed and rightly so that the continuing practice of PP could cause a complete Ban.

Mick,

You're too long in the tooth to be believing that bullsh1t.

The Minister intends to take all centrefire handguns and eventually all centrefire rifles. His plan was to divide the shooting groups so that instead of standing up to him they would all retreat to their own corner and hope he didn't see them.

The focus by the DOJ on PP was to ensure that the shooting groups divided and did nothing to fight against the bill. If he had picked a different centrefire sport it would have been the exact same.

He did a cracking job judging by the list of associations he read out in the Dail yesterday who supported the ban (on handgun licensing and the sport of IPSC). NTSA, NARGC, NASRPC, SSAI, etc.

This was perpetuated by those who were singing the Ministers song by telling people that if they kept quiet and did not fight the bill they would keep what they have and if they did not support the ban (on centrefire handguns and the sport of IPSC) they would lose everything. We'll see come November when he refuses to license any of their centrefire handguns how wise a choice that was.

The silence from the shooting bodies was deafening as they were all led by the nose to the knackers yard.

Charlie Flanagan read out a letter from the head of IPSC - a guy on a par in the shooting sports with the head of the ISSF.
The Minister couldn't have cared less - staright out the chair bullying the opposition and stating that it is not a sport, after the reading into the record of a letter form the head of the world body.

You know as well as everyone else that IPSC is a major international sport and it is a disgrace that the shooting bodies of Ireland supported the Minister in his bid to ban not only IPSC but all centrefire handguns. Now he has the measure of them.

When they realise what they have done and he comes for the centrefire handguns will they fight him and the DOJ? no chance - they will turn on their own again - as the Minister intended all along.

He stated yesterday that he will be coming for the 'high powered rifles' aswell and now that he knows the shooting bodies will cower before him it won't be long.

Those that claim the FCP will help are kidding themselves - it will be disbanded now that it's job is done - as was always intended

The people that lobbied politicians and fought to prevent the prohibition on the licensing of centrefire handguns and the prohibition on the sport of IPSC which uses them should be commended rather than vilified for standing up to the Minister.

This was no shooting body, no NGB, just individuals who own centrefire handguns and who take part in sports using them, including IPSC.

What support dod they get from the shooting bodies and NGBs who claim to support them and their sports. Well, the Minister read that out.

This group of individuals did very well and came quite close with a vote in the Dail yesterday going 77/63 in support of the ban - hardly the whitewash the Minister was hoping for.

If the shooting bodies had stood as one and lobbied to prevent the Minister from making any prohibitions that vote may well have gone the other way.

Instead only one group of individuals stood up to him and they almost did it, while those thrown stale scraps by the Minister ran round his ankles.

I'm sure the list of shooting bodies the Minister read out would be claiming victory today if the vote had gone against the prohibitions, should they not be claiming the fruits of the labours today anyway?

Ask yourself who will be left standing when this is all over and there you will have where the ire of those who have been hung out to dry should be focused.

You'll notice that boards.ie is shockingly quiet today. Normally we would have seen live blogging of the Dail Debate, seen endless nit picking of the wording of the Minister, etc.

I wonder if perhaps some people realise what has been allowed to happen when it could have been prevented, realise that they or at least the associations they are part of were instrumental in it . ... I wonder.

I'm disgusted with the whole thing.

Is it any wonder the country is in the state it is in when such a small group can divide into so many camps and allow a standing Minister to mislead the Dail and the country in such a blatant fashion.

Dismayed

Grizzly 45

[

quote=Sikamick;60975490]Grizzly the question I asked was, has the Ban to do with crime or not, please look at my full post.

I did,and reenforced your question by giving the examples of the Minister catching himself out with his own statements.But if that is too obtuse for you.NO! It has nothing to do with crime DUH!.

I don't know why you keep bringing up PP,

Because it is Min Ahernes boogeyman and is the keystone of to his arguement for a pistol ban

the organisation acting in very responsible way has ceased the practice in the interest of all the other pistol shooters in the country

Question of jump or be pushed actually.With a few other shooting bodies helping along the way.
And now THAT looks like a reneged deal as well from what is coming from the FPU!


,

unfortunately there are a small group of people that care for no one but themselves and continue to do it.

Here in the ROI???Somone or a body is still running courses,grading themselves etc??Hope you have reported this to the Gardai,or will in the next few days under the new legislation!
Or do you mean that there is a group,that travels to NI,which is NOT under the laws of the ROI to continue their sport in a ligitmate and legal fashion in a country that recognises such ??If so then they are doing nothing illegal as it is not within the jurstiction of Irish law.So would you care to clarify that point??

The people that brought the original cases did so in the interest of pistol target shooting and they are extremely annoyed and rightly so that the continuing practice of PP could cause a complete Ban.

By continually bringing up the comparison that the Minister is making between Irish shooters and the USA shooting culture you only give credence to his argument.

Really????How anyone sane could belive that making a comparison of a country the size of Ireland with 3million +/- and a nation of over 180 million people,with totally a differnt mindset to firearms ownership which they have as a constitutional right,and comparing it to 100,000 gunowners who have a govermental privilige,is a sane and creditable comparision.???
So if the Minister said tomrrow the Moon is made of green cheese,and NASA said it isnt.That would be giving his arguement credibility??:eek:

He is well aware of the feelings of the shooting fraternity here in Ireland.

Glad to hear it.He obviously doesnt give two figs for them though.:mad:


DISMAYED
Whoever the Heck you are WELCOME!!! And for a first post WELL BLODDY SAID!!:D:D:D:D:D

Sparks

dismayed wrote: »

You'll notice that boards.ie is shockingly quiet today. Normally we would have seen live blogging of the Dail Debate, seen endless nit picking of the wording of the Minister, etc.

Gosh, I didn't realise that that had become a duty for me, but thank you for the heads up dismayed, it's always good to have another hurler to help hold that ditch down in case it tries to fly away.

bunny shooter

Sikamick wrote: »

......... I got a pistol and have got rid of it because of the continuous problems and infighting that it caused within the shooting sports..........

I have done the same for the same reason

dismayed

Sikamick wrote:

......... I got a pistol and have got rid of it because of the continuous problems and infighting that it caused within the shooting sports..........

bunny shooter wrote: »

I have done the same for the same reason

Might I ask whether or not you got involved in any of the pistol shooting sports in a big way? How did you just say I won't do that any more? What have you decided to fill the time with?

I got a pistol so i could take part in the handgun shooting sports - I have taken part in all the sports I can with it.

It's not simply a possession - it's my sport - it's my primary pasttime - to give it up would be akin to selling your golf clubs - ask any keen golfer who has amassed a respectable handicap if they would be willing to pack it in and take up knitting - not likely.

Dismayed.

Sikamick

dismayed wrote: »

Mick,

You're too long in the tooth to be believing that bullsh1t.

The Minister intends to take all centrefire handguns and eventually all centrefire rifles. His plan was to divide the shooting groups so that instead of standing up to him they would all retreat to their own corner and hope he didn't see them


The focus by the DOJ on PP was to ensure that the shooting groups divided and did nothing to fight against the bill. If he had picked a different centrefire sport it would have been the exact same He did a cracking job judging by the list of associations he read out in the Dail yesterday who supported the ban (on handgun licensing and the sport of IPSC). NTSA, NARGC, NASRPC, SSAI, etc.

This was perpetuated by those who were singing the Ministers song by telling people that if they kept quiet and did not fight the bill they would keep what they have and if they did not support the ban (on centrefire handguns and the sport of IPSC) they would lose everything. We'll see come November when he refuses to license any of their centrefire handguns how wise a choice that was.

The silence from the shooting bodies was deafening as they were all led by the nose to the knackers yard.

Charlie Flanagan read out a letter from the head of IPSC - a guy on a par in the shooting sports with the head of the ISSF.
The Minister couldn't have cared less - staright out the chair bullying the opposition and stating that it is not a sport, after the reading into the record of a letter form the head of the world body.

You know as well as everyone else that IPSC is a major international sport and it is a disgrace that the shooting bodies of Ireland supported the Minister in his bid to ban not only IPSC but all centrefire handguns. Now he has the measure of them.

When they realise what they have done and he comes for the centrefire handguns will they fight him and the DOJ? no chance - they will turn on their own again - as the Minister intended all along.

He stated yesterday that he will be coming for the 'high powered rifles' aswell and now that he knows the shooting bodies will cower before him it won't be long.

Those that claim the FCP will help are kidding themselves - it will be disbanded now that it's job is done - as was always intended

The people that lobbied politicians and fought to prevent the prohibition on the licensing of centrefire handguns and the prohibition on the sport of IPSC which uses them should be commended rather than vilified for standing up to the Minister.

This was no shooting body, no NGB, just individuals who own centrefire handguns and who take part in sports using them, including IPSC.

What support dod they get from the shooting bodies and NGBs who claim to support them and their sports. Well, the Minister read that out.

This group of individuals did very well and came quite close with a vote in the Dail yesterday going 77/63 in support of the ban - hardly the whitewash the Minister was hoping for.

If the shooting bodies had stood as one and lobbied to prevent the Minister from making any prohibitions that vote may well have gone the other way.

Instead only one group of individuals stood up to him and they almost did it, while those thrown stale scraps by the Minister ran round his ankles.

I'm sure the list of shooting bodies the Minister read out would be claiming victory today if the vote had gone against the prohibitions, should they not be claiming the fruits of the labours today anyway?

Ask yourself who will be left standing when this is all over and there you will have where the ire of those who have been hung out to dry should be focused.

You'll notice that boards.ie is shockingly quiet today. Normally we would have seen live blogging of the Dail Debate, seen endless nit picking of the wording of the Minister, etc.

I wonder if perhaps some people realise what has been allowed to happen when it could have been prevented, realise that they or at least the associations they are part of were instrumental in it . ... I wonder.

I'm disgusted with the whole thing.

Is it any wonder the country is in the state it is in when such a small group can divide into so many camps and allow a standing Minister to mislead the Dail and the country in such a blatant fashion.

Dismayed

Re shooting groups most were and are willing to support one and other, it is again a small number of people within those shooting groups that started throwing their toys out of the pram because they could not have there way, that's what has caused the divide.

The focus by the DOJ on PP was to ensure that the shooting groups divided and did nothing to fight against the bill. If he had picked a different centrefire sport it would have been the exact same.Again I will have to disagree a certain body ( SS**) refused them affiliation over twelve months ago at a time when they could have defended their case by having a seat on the FCP. Ask them why they did this. And just a few months ago they then offered them a position because they wanted the PP shooters vote.

Clubs/ Associations, one wonders why we bother getting involved, there is a lot to be said for a bit of hunting on the hills and then going home happy without having all the Bu**sh**.


Sikamick

Sparks

dismayed wrote: »

What have you decided to fill the time with?

Well, Sikamick has founded an entirely new group that's doing a very popular form of shooting using classic service rifles, and Bunny Shooter has started a very successful series of shoots for the fox-shooting lads to pit their skills against one another. They've run several matches in various places so far, and frankly, I'm not sure you should throw rocks at their resumes until you've established your own...

Sparks

Sikamick wrote: »

Again I will have to disagree a certain body ( SS**) refused them affiliation over twelve months ago at a time when they could have defended their case by having a seat on the FCP. Ask them why they did this.

Actually, you'd have to ask a group of individuals who are no longer on the SSAI committee, that body now being under new management.

Clubs/ Associations, one wonders why we bother getting involved, there is a lot to be said for a bit of hunting on the hills and then going home happy without having all the Bu**sh**.

True. Sadly, when you do that, the little hitlers tend to show up, claim they're running everything for the good of everyone else, drive the whole mess straight into the nearest brick wall at high speed and then vanish, only to reappear shortly after the next poor slob tries to fix things in order to throw rocks at the repair crew and claim that they're responsible for the problem!

Sikamick

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[

I did,and reenforced your question by giving the examples of the Minister catching himself out with his own statements.But if that is too obtuse for you.NO! It has nothing to do with crime DUH!.


Because it is Min Ahernes boogeyman and is the keystone of to his arguement for a pistol ban


Question of jump or be pushed actually.With a few other shooting bodies helping along the way.
And now THAT looks like a reneged deal as well from what is coming from the FPU!


,

Here in the ROI???Somone or a body is still running courses,grading themselves etc??Hope you have reported this to the Gardai,or will in the next few days under the new legislation!
Or do you mean that there is a group,that travels to NI,which is NOT under the laws of the ROI to continue their sport in a ligitmate and legal fashion in a country that recognises such ??If so then they are doing nothing illegal as it is not within the jurstiction of Irish law.So would you care to clarify that point??

The people that brought the original cases did so in the interest of pistol target shooting and they are extremely annoyed and rightly so that the continuing practice of PP could cause a complete Ban.



Really????How anyone sane could belive that making a comparison of a country the size of Ireland with 3million +/- and a nation of over 180 million people,with totally a differnt mindset to firearms ownership which they have as a constitutional right,and comparing it to 100,000 gunowners who have a govermental privilige,is a sane and creditable comparision.???
So if the Minister said tomrrow the Moon is made of green cheese,and NASA said it isnt.That would be giving his arguement credibility??:eek:




Glad to hear it.He obviously doesnt give two figs for them though.:mad:


DISMAYED
Whoever the Heck you are WELCOME!!! And for a first post WELL BLODDY SAID!!:D:D:D:D:D

_______________________________________________________________

Here in the ROI???Somone or a body is still running courses,grading themselves etc??Hope you have reported this to the Gardai,or will in the next few days under the new legislation!

What exactly do you mean by this,(highlighted in red) don't make accusations you cant prove.



Grizzly still waiting for the meeting we were suppose to have, you have a lot to say which is easy when no one knows who you are, be a man and put up your ID/name.

Or are you someone who has something to hide

Sikamick

Sikamick

dismayed wrote: »

Might I ask whether or not you got involved in any of the pistol shooting sports in a big way? How did you just say I won't do that any more? What have you decided to fill the time with?

I got a pistol so i could take part in the handgun shooting sports - I have taken part in all the sports I can with it.

It's not simply a possession - it's my sport - it's my primary pasttime - to give it up would be akin to selling your golf clubs - ask any keen golfer who has amassed a respectable handicap if they would be willing to pack it in and take up knitting - not likely.

Dismayed.

_________________________________________________________________

In answer to your first question?

Dismayed actually I don't take part in competitions though I enjoy various types of target shooting.

I have spent over the last three years setting up and helping to run DTSC, when most people were shooting on the range I was picking up shells and cleaning up the place.

3 years X 24-7 helping our club and supporting the sport in more ways than you could imagine.

Re as to filling in my time, there are a lot more types of shooting other than pistol also there is a thing called Family to look after.

Does the above answer your questions.

Sikamick

dismayed

I'm not sure you should throw rocks at their resumes until you've established your own...

I wasn't throwing rocks.

I was just interested to know how they found it so easy to give up their sport.

Again I will have to disagree a certain body ( SS**) refused them affiliation over twelve months ago at a time when they could have defended their case by having a seat on the FCP

As I said earlier you are talking about IPSA - old news - not what I was on about at all.
It has no relevance in the current debate - it was just an association - it is no more.

Being on the FCP would have done nobody any good.
The FCP was full of talking heads - end result of which was -

Centrefire pistols no longer allowed to be licensed
Major international handgun sports outlawed.
Declaration by the Minister that he is going to focus on 'high powered rifles' next

And to add insult to injury the NGBs supported him in doing this. Sure they can argue that only agree to probhibit some of the sports - a shameful act in itself - but support is support and the Minister claimed support for the bill from these people.

They should have fought him - instead they put their collective talking heads in the sand, bared their arses to him and asked him to be gentle.

Dismayed

Sparks

Sikamick wrote: »

you have a lot to say which is easy when no one knows who you are, be a man and put up your ID/name.
Or are you someone who has something to hide

Hold off on that please. While your anonymity here doesn't extend to the point where we'd refuse to cooperate with court orders, it does extend up to a point.
I've no problem with someone posting genuine criticism anonymously - I've seen too many shooters penalised for honestly trying to point out real problems, and I've had it done to me too often myself, to think that a little anonymity is a bad thing.
(Mind you, when you cross the line from genuine honest criticism to taking the piss, that's another story, but we're not there yet).


(Oh, and Grizzly, the lads you're talking about have been reported to the DoJ).

Sparks

dismayed wrote: »

I was just interested to know how they found it so easy to give up their sport.

There's a fair bit of backstory you may not know of there, but from the little I know of, there was sufficient cause for enough frustration to walk away.

Declaration by the Minister that he is going to focus on 'high powered rifles' next

Link please...

And to add insult to injury the NGBs supported him in doing this.

According to him. Look, you don't believe him when he says PP is anti-school combat training for paedophiles; why do you believe him when he says the other NGBs fully support banning a sport (and in the same stroke, taking off large swathes of their own disciplines)?

the Minister claimed support for the bill from these people.

I've just highlighed the important part of that phrase for you.

Sikamick

Sparks wrote: »

Hold off on that please. While your anonymity here doesn't extend to the point where we'd refuse to cooperate with court orders, it does extend up to a point.
I've no problem with someone posting genuine criticism anonymously - I've seen too many shooters penalised for honestly trying to point out real problems, and I've had it done to me too often myself, to think that a little anonymity is a bad thing.
(Mind you, when you cross the line from genuine honest criticism to taking the piss, that's another story, but we're not there yet).


(Oh, and Grizzly, the lads you're talking about have been reported to the DoJ).

______________________________________________________________

And for the record not by me, I don't even know who Sparks is talking about, maybe he might enlighten us as to why they were reported.

Sikamick

Sparks

Not a sporting body Sika. Check your PMs.

Grizzly 45

Sikamick wrote: »

_______________________________________________________________

Here in the ROI???Somone or a body is still running courses,grading themselves etc??Hope you have reported this to the Gardai,or will in the next few days under the new legislation!

What exactly do you mean by this,(highlighted in red) don't make accusations you cant prove.

I am not making a accusation Sika ,I am making a questioning statement...
You said you have information that an illegal activity[or soon to be] is happening in the ROI.I have simply pointed out your LEGAL DUTY to report such if youknow it is going on .How is that an accusation???

Grizzly still waiting for the meeting we were suppose to have, you have a lot to say which is easy when no one knows who you are, be a man and put up your ID/name.

Or are you someone who has something to hide

I said Iwould gladly meet you Sika,and I explained and offered a date last Fri[26th] which wasnt suitable to you !Idont get up to "Dooblin" all the time so sorreee if that isnt convient.When you down Midlands next time?You can have all me details then,and anyone else for that matter.. :)Absolutely nothing to hide here .;)

Sparks no problem on Sika asking either or anyone else for that matter ] .I can also understand why Sika might feel I am extracting the urine too::pac:.I genuinely havent been able to meet up with him.Life & work gets in the way betimes.;)
BTW those lads who were reported..Did anything come of it??Or is it sub judice or hushed up and forgotten about??

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

BTW those lads who were reported..Did anything come of it??Or is it sub judice or hushed up and forgotten about??

They were reported; I've heard nothing since, but I do know that for all the mutterings, no-one put in a formal report or complaint to the DoJ about it (though they may have done to the gardai, I don't know).

dismayed

They were reported

What is this?

Dismayed

Sparks

dismayed wrote: »

What is this?

Not a sporting group, and not really up for discussion in this forum - check your PMs for a better explanation.

BornToKill

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

DISMAYED
Whoever the Heck you are WELCOME!!! And for a first post WELL BLODDY SAID!!:D:D:D:D:D

Yes, a remarkable first post alright.