Parliamentary Questions

tireur

Would you consider changing your nom de plume from "BornToKill" to something less likely to give the wrong impression to the casual observer?

BornToKill

No.

tireur

What inspired your choice of name?

BornToKill

This thread is for parliamentary questions. I don't want to take it off track and the name is hardly inspired anyway.

tireur

BornToKill wrote: »

the name is hardly inspired anyway.

You are right there, unless a tabloid journalist was looking at this section of the boards.

IRLConor

tireur wrote: »

You are right there, unless a tabloid journalist was looking at this section of the boards.

Perhaps he was trying to suggest something about the duality of man. The tabloid journalists are happy enough getting their stories from boards.ie as it is including quoting chem recently.

Either way, as he said, this is for parliamentary questions and their answers, not asking people about their choice of username.

Sparks

From yesterday:

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
Question 807: To ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, further to Parliamentary Question No. 214 of 1 July 2009, the position regarding this matter. [30767/09]

Martin Cullen (Minister, Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism; Waterford, Fianna Fail)

As the Deputy will be aware the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009, which contains restrictions on handguns, was enacted during the summer. The Department of Justice informed me that they had liaised closely with the sports shooting groups, through the Firearms Consultative Panel (FCP) over the previous 18 months and that there had been considerable discussion on many aspects of shooting sports.

My colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has written to me in relation to some issues which have arisen in relation to target shooting arising from his meeting with the FCP. My Department has liaised with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on these issues and I have asked the Irish Sports Council to conduct a review regarding the impact of the legislation and consult with the relevant National Governing Bodies and shooting representative organisations to see if any changes are needed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Question 649: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if the provisions of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 have been implemented; if his attention has been drawn to employment implications that have arisen since the Bill was enacted; when new gun licences will be issued to law abiding citizens; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31044/09]


Dermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail)

All of the sections on firearms contained in Part 4 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 have been commenced with the exception of the prohibition on the personal importation of firearms. This measure will be addressed in the coming months in tandem with the transposition of the new EU Weapons Directive. In addition, the outstanding firearms related sections of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 have also been commenced.

As the Deputy will appreciate, in my role as Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, my main priorities in relation to firearms are public safety and the control of firearms. The two Acts already mentioned, which were debated extensively by the Oireachtas, introduce a range of measures in relation to firearms licensing such as the requirement that applicants have provided secure accommodation for their firearms, that they prove their identity, provide the names of two referees and give consent to medical enquiries though such enquiries will only be made where necessary.

A major aspect of these reforms is the introduction of a new three year licence to replace the old one year licence, where all firearms certificates expired each year, on 31 July. To manage the transition phase, the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act contained a provision to extend the certificates which would have normally expired on 31 July 2009. These licence extensions range from three to eleven months and the Garda Commissioner wrote to each licence holder to inform the holder of the extension he had been granted. The shortest of these extensions will expire on 31 October 2009.

Because of the new arrangements, the ’one year licence’ no longer exists and consequently could not be issued during the months of August or September. Prospective applicants, however, can apply for the new three year licenses and the first of these will issue in the coming weeks. The Garda Commissioner recently published on the Garda website ’Guidelines as to the Practical Application and Operation of the Firearms Acts, 1925-2009’ and I believe these guidelines will prove invaluable in assisting members of the Garda Síochána and the public alike by bringing clarity and transparency to firearms licensing.

pedroeibar

He didn’t answer the if his attention has been drawn to employment implications that have arisen since the Bill was enacted” bit.

Meantime, a few hundred thousand of us have been spending hours investigating how to complete a badly-worded and badly-designed form. Not to mention the hundreds of Gardai who will spend thousands of hours trying to come to grips with obtuse definitions and rules that have unclear guidelines. And a few thousand doctors refusing to give information to a phone caller calling him/herself a FO. The McCarthy Dundon lads and their ilk must be having a great laugh!:mad:
P.

Sparks

There's been a host of PQs on topic which I've not had time to post for various reasons, so here they are now:

Tuesday, 22 September 2009

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael): To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the indoor firearms training range at Garda headquarters was closed down as a result of ricochet and other problems; when the feasibility study into the measures required to bring the firearms range up to standard was carried out; the estimated cost; and when it is expected that the work will be completed. [31174/09]

Dermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail): I am advised by the Garda authorities that the indoor firearms training range at Garda Headquarters was closed in December 2005 on a precautionary basis due to health and safety issues.

I am further advised by the Garda authorities that a feasibility study into the measures required to bring the indoor firearms range located at Garda Headquarters up to the highest international standard was carried out in 2007 and the estimated cost is approximately €2.6 million. The recommendations in this study will be considered having regard to the Garda authorities identified future training requirements and the availability of capital funding.

There has been considerable investment in the provision of firearms training facilities for An Garda Síochána over the past number of years including the provision of two Prefabricated Modular Firearms ranges, one at the Garda College and one in the Dublin Metropolitan region. These prefabricated ranges are designed to facilitate live fire shooting for up to four persons in a carefully contained environment which adheres to all range safety requirements.

In addition, three Firearms Automated Training System (FATS) units were purchased by An Garda Síochána in January 2006, at a cost of just over €0.5m. This has proved to be a very successful initiative and has allowed the development of judgmental firearms training as well as traditional marksmanship training in a non-live fire environment.

I am advised by the Garda authorities that there are sufficient resources and infrastructure currently in place to provide training for members of the Garda Síochána who are authorised to carry Firearms Authorisation Cards.

Tuesday, 22 September 2009

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour): To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of licensed handguns in respect of each year from 2002 to date in 2009; the number of licensed handguns that were reported as stolen; the number of such stolen guns that were subsequently used in crimes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31164/09]

Dermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail): I refer the Deputy to a tabular statement setting out the information sought by him on handguns licensed and handguns stolen for the years 2004, when handguns began to be licensed again, to date. The figures show that 52 firearms classified as handguns were stolen in the period in question while the current number of handguns currently licensed is approximately 1,900.

As I have stated previously in the Dáil I am advised by the Garda Authorities that stolen firearms do subsequently get used in the commission of other criminal offences. Not all stolen firearms used in the commission of these offences are recovered so it is not possible to say precisely how many formerly legally held handguns were used in the commission of criminal offences.

2003/04|2004/05|2005/06|2006/07|2007/08|2008/09
Handguns licenced (note 1)| 1 | 370 | 948 | 1,368 | 1,895 | 1,902 |
Hanguns stolen (note 2)| 3 | 7 | 10 | 7 | 7 | 18 |

Note 1: The number of handguns, recorded on PULSE, for which a firearms certificate has been issued for years 2004 to 2009 (to 10 September)

Note 2: Between 2004 and 2009, 52 handguns are recorded as stolen. The 2009 figure includes firearms stolen during an aggravated burglary at the home of a firearms dealer in Tipperary in January 2009.

Tuesday, 6 October 2009

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael): To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the position regarding a matter (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33616/09]

Dermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail): As the Deputy may be aware, with the enactment of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009, the remaining firearms related sections of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 have been commenced. As a result, a wide range of measures in relation to firearms licensing have been introduced such as the requirement that applicants will provide secure accommodation for their firearms, prove their identity, provide the names of two referees and give consent to medical enquiries being made where necessary. With the introduction of the new three-year licence comes a new, more detailed, application form which is available on the Garda website and from Garda stations. I understand that the form itself is nine pages long, although the last three of these pages are for Garda use, making it six pages to be completed by the applicant. The Garda Commissioner has published “Guidelines as to the Practical Application and Operation of the Firearms Acts, 1925-2009” on the Garda website. That document, along with advice on how to complete the form, should prove invaluable in assisting members of the public in understanding the new licensing arrangements.

Tuesday, 6 October 2009

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael): To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if antique guns with no pin will be exempt from the gun licence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34373/09]

Dermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail): Section 26 of the Firearms Act 1925 provides that ’Nothing in this Act relating to firearms shall apply to any antique firearm which is sold, bought, carried, or possessed as a curiosity or ornament’.

I understand, generally speaking, that firearms manufactured before the mid 19th Century which do not utilise modern type ammunition would be classed as antique firearms. Furthermore, deactivated or defective firearms, not capable of being fired, may be kept on the written authorisation of the local Garda Superintendent under Section 6 of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990, as amended.

The Superintendent must be satisfied that the firearm is actually permanently deactivated and may request certification of same from a recognised proof house and may have the firearm examined by a suitably qualified member of the Garda Síochána.

Thursday, 19 November 2009

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour): To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will consider an appropriate payment system for the gun licence, which has recently been brought into law, whereby pensioners who are the holders of valid licences would only have to pay one year in advance rather than the three years that is demanded under the legislation; if he will consider the scheme proposed in correspondence (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42459/09]

Dermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail): Following consideration of the matter within my Department, including discussions at the Firearms Consultative Panel, it was agreed that the fee for a firearms certificate should be the same irrespective of the type of firearm, to reflect the cost of processing the application and to simplify the system. The new firearms certificate will last for three years and the fee was calculated with a view to maintaining existing revenue flows and with this in mind, after consultation with the Minister for Finance, it was set at €80. I should point out that, as part of the transition phase of the introduction of the three year licence, existing licence holders received extensions to their old licences on an uncharged for basis for an average period of six months.

The new system is more modern, more thorough and more efficient and, as the Deputy may be aware, the fee had not been increased since 1992. The three year licence was provided for in the Criminal Justice Act 2006 and it is not possible to put in place the payment arrangements envisaged by the Deputy.

Bananaman

2.6 million for an indoor range - I'd be getting that quote again

B'Man

Sparks

I'm more wondering how you can steal 3 licenced handguns in the same year that there's only one licenced...

Grizzly 45

Would the DOJ care to explain that in 2004/2005there is one legally liscensed handgun and three are stolen???

I should point out that, as part of the transition phase of the introduction of the three year licence, existing licence holders received extensions to their old licences on an uncharged for basis for an average period of six months.

EH????The old liscenses expired on July 31st.Dunno about you folks but my extension letter ended like most of yours on Oct 31st ,and am now in limbo like 80% of the county.So who are there six month extension people???
Either there is a select few out there or the minister isnt right in his facts[That would be unusual now!]

The new system is more modern, more thorough and more efficient

Got to say our ol pal Dermo has a WONDERFUL sense of humour:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sparks

Grizzly, by law we had to be split up into even groups with licences coming due at regular intervals over the course of a year - so by law, we had to have an average of a six month extension.

I think most of us in here might have an Oct31 deadline, but that's because we're not really a representative statistical sampling of the larger firearms-owning group.

CJhaughey

Sparks wrote: »

I'm more wondering how you can steal 3 licenced handguns in the same year that there's only one licenced...

Perhaps they were not handguns but blank firing pistols,cap guns , potato guns , or humane killers?
Or was that the year that McDowell had the amnesty and the two revolvers went missing from the Station that they were handed in?

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

I'm more wondering how you can steal 3 licenced handguns in the same year that there's only one licenced...

If thats not confusing enough can someone explain how 52 firearms classified as handguns were stolen between 2004 and 2009 yet the figures reflect only 34?

The figures show that 52 firearms classified as handguns were stolen in the period in question while the current number of handguns currently licensed is approximately 1,900.

How many are Gardai or or state agency firearms or were those figures omitted?

As I have stated previously in the Dáil I am advised by the Garda Authorities that stolen firearms do subsequently get used in the commission of other criminal offences. Not all stolen firearms used in the commission of these offences are recovered so it is not possible to say precisely how many formerly legally held handguns were used in the commission of criminal offences.

Yeah and there is a puff of smoke coming from the grassy knoll. Please, i can declare any sort of outlandish details, facts, figures, etc provided i don't have to provide stats as proof. How do you think an NGB or the FCP would stand up to scrutiny by a government body if they couldn't provide proof of quoted figures?

Sparks

CJhaughey wrote: »

Perhaps they were not handguns but blank firing pistols,cap guns , potato guns , or humane killers?
Or was that the year that McDowell had the amnesty and the two revolvers went missing from the Station that they were handed in?

The latter sounds like the more likely explanation to me to be honest.

sfakiaman

"to provide training for members of the Garda Síochána who are authorised to carry Firearms Authorisation Cards."

Dangerous feckin things those cards, you could give yourself a nasty cut whipping it out of the holster.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

I'm more wondering how you can steal 3 licenced handguns in the same year that there's only one licenced...

In 2004/2005 there were 348 handguns licensed, it was 2003/2004 that there was only one. I think there's a missing column in those figures.

Sparks

From Tuesday (Dec1):

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail): To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the position regarding the increase in the cost of a shotgun licence. [44331/09]

Dermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail) : Following consideration of the matter within my Department, including discussions at the Firearms Consultative Panel, it was agreed that the fee for a firearms certificate should be the same irrespective of the type of firearm, to reflect the cost of processing the application and to simplify the system.

The new firearms certificate will last for three years and the fee was calculated with a view to maintaining existing revenue flows and with this in mind, after consultation with the Minister for Finance, it was set at €80. I should point out that, as part of the transition phase of the introduction of the three year licence, existing licence holders received extensions to their old licences on an uncharged for basis for an average period of six months.

The new system is more modern, more thorough and more efficient and, as the Deputy may be aware, the fee had not been increased since 1992.

happyjack

CJhaughey wrote: »

Perhaps they were not handguns but blank firing pistols,cap guns , potato guns , or humane killers?
Or was that the year that McDowell had the amnesty and the two revolvers went missing from the Station that they were handed in?

I can remember a few years back Gardai on the 6 o'clock news showing airsoft guns on a table and making out they we're "firearms".

HJ

hk

I had a brain wave yesterday and thought that it might be good to get some of whats currently going on with CF pistols on the record. Since the Judge in Pat Herlihys case stated that the intent of the recent Act was to tighten up on gun control i had an idea. Since the Act provided for persons to apply for renewal who held a licence prior to 18th Nov 2008 I though it would be interesting to ask the persons who passed the act through the Dail if it was their intention that we would loose our licence. If not I asked if they would ask the Minister for Justice whether:
1) It is the policy of his department and/or the Gardi not to renew any centerfire pistol licences?

2) If not how many have been granted under the new legislation?

3) Under what conditions normally would a refusal be expected for an active competition shooter, who is a member of an authorized range, has met the security requirements as laid down in SI 307/09 Firearms (secure Accommodation) regulations 2009 and has held the firearm prior to 19th November 2008?

Maybe a PQ or two might clarify the situation and put on the public record where we are supposed to stand and clear up any ambiguities that may exist for the District Court Judges. Even an unfavorable answer may highlight something which could be challenged in the higher courts.

Therefor please email some of your representatives and any of the TDs who responded favorably during the initial emails when the bill was first going through the Dail. If we get enough support it just takes one PQ to clear up what the intent of the act and may allow us move any cases taken in the future forward.

Sparks

hk, just ask your local TD to put the PQ forward as a written question. It doesn't need a huge amount of support. I'd take more care in the phrasing of it though - it's generally best to be looking for something very specific, vague hand-waving as a question gets vague hand-waving as an answer and that's not much use for anything but eating time.

rowa

hk wrote: »

I had a brain wave yesterday and thought that it might be good to get some of whats currently going on with CF pistols on the record. Since the Judge in Pat Herlihys case stated that the intent of the recent Act was to tighten up on gun control i had an idea. Since the Act provided for persons to apply for renewal who held a licence prior to 18th Nov 2008 I though it would be interesting to ask the persons who passed the act through the Dail if it was their intention that we would loose our licence. If not I asked if they would ask the Minister for Justice whether:
1) It is the policy of his department and/or the Gardi not to renew any centerfire pistol licences?

2) If not how many have been granted under the new legislation?

3) Under what conditions normally would a refusal be expected for an active competition shooter, who is a member of an authorized range, has met the security requirements as laid down in SI 307/09 Firearms (secure Accommodation) regulations 2009 and has held the firearm prior to 19th November 2008?

Maybe a PQ or two might clarify the situation and put on the public record where we are supposed to stand and clear up any ambiguities that may exist for the District Court Judges. Even an unfavorable answer may highlight something which could be challenged in the higher courts.

Therefor please email some of your representatives and any of the TDs who responded favorably during the initial emails when the bill was first going through the Dail. If we get enough support it just takes one PQ to clear up what the intent of the act and may allow us move any cases taken in the future forward.

do you honestly think you'd get a straight answer from that lot ? and even if it were their intention to reduce the numbers of pistols with the pre nov 08 people they are not going to say that and hand you a stick to beat them with in court .

hk

rowa wrote: »

do you honestly think you'd get a straight answer from that lot ? and even if it were their intention to reduce the numbers of pistols with the pre nov 08 people they are not going to say that and hand you a stick to beat them with in court .

Thats the point though its a win win,

if they say its not their intention, it puts it on the public record and means that the Judges cant use the same reason used against Pat Herlihy because it would be said that it is not the intent. (ie that that was the intent of the act, if they say it was not intended that way then a judge cant consider that it was)

if they say it was their intention to get rid of pistols then you have other avenues open to you.

I know they are never going to give a straight answer on anything but the more you box them in either way the less ambiguity there is over the act, which allows you focus your legal arguments on specifics rather than trying to cover a lot of bases and some we might not even have foreseen as yet.

Sparks

A PQ along the lines of "how many licence applications for centerfire pistols which were licenced prior to November 17, 2008 have been refused in 2009?" would be of interest though.

rowa

Sparks wrote: »

A PQ along the lines of "how many licence applications for centerfire pistols which were licenced prior to November 17, 2008 have been refused in 2009?" would be of interest though.

yes it would , but all you are going to get is a question dodge and a load of waffle about public safety and it always being desirable for less firearms to be around , just watch prime time , vincent browne , or even newsnight on bbc and watch them ply their trade , professional dodgers all ,

Sparks

Not if all you want is the numbers. If that's what you want, the dross surrounding them doesn't matter. And once you have them, the next step may be easier.

Mr Mole

Here are some interesting comments from the Committee Stage Meeting re the Misc Prov Act. The Minister answers Deputy Flanagans question:

Deputy Charles Flanagan: Is the Minister satisfied that the Commissioner is now the decision maker for these matters? It is interesting to note that throughout the bulk of firearms legislation, it is the superintendent of the relevant district who has the decision making power on the granting of licences and related matters. The Commissioner is now involved and that is a change the Minister is bringing forward for reasons of which he might advise us.

Deputy Dermot Ahern: The Commissioner makes the decisions. He will issue the comprehensive 36 page guidelines booklet. These guidelines will be a great guide to all those applying and to members of the Garda Síochána who will deal with the applications. We have had difficulties in this area because there have been different interpretations of the regulations and of legislation. The idea is to have it much more centralised, but on the same basis so that people in different parts of the country have to make the same decisions.


It seems to me that the intended process has failed miserably.:(

happyjack

hk wrote: »

I had a brain wave yesterday and thought that it might be good to get some of whats currently going on with CF pistols on the record. Since the Judge in Pat Herlihys case stated that the intent of the recent Act was to tighten up on gun control i had an idea. Since the Act provided for persons to apply for renewal who held a licence prior to 18th Nov 2008 I though it would be interesting to ask the persons who passed the act through the Dail if it was their intention that we would loose our licence. If not I asked if they would ask the Minister for Justice whether:
1) It is the policy of his department and/or the Gardi not to renew any centerfire pistol licences?

2) If not how many have been granted under the new legislation?

3) Under what conditions normally would a refusal be expected for an active competition shooter, who is a member of an authorized range, has met the security requirements as laid down in SI 307/09 Firearms (secure Accommodation) regulations 2009 and has held the firearm prior to 19th November 2008?

Maybe a PQ or two might clarify the situation and put on the public record where we are supposed to stand and clear up any ambiguities that may exist for the District Court Judges. Even an unfavorable answer may highlight something which could be challenged in the higher courts.

Therefor please email some of your representatives and any of the TDs who responded favorably during the initial emails when the bill was first going through the Dail. If we get enough support it just takes one PQ to clear up what the intent of the act and may allow us move any cases taken in the future forward.

Update,

I've been asking my local FF TD to get the justice dept to send me a letter outlining their stance concerning the grandfathering of restricted guns, waiting weeks now, but this week he did mail me a letter he got back from my local CS outlining again his reasons for refusal, (dated 18th Nov)
the last bit say;-

(The Minister for Justice, equality and law reform is particularly anxious that licenses are not issued for such military/ police type weapons in this country.)

This is a direct quote, nothing added or taken away, it plainly out lines that as a Chief Garda Superintendent he feels he is doing what Justice want him to do, even though I met with him and explained in detail that these guns are grandfathered under the CJB.

We've been left out in the cold, justice do not want to help us.

HJ:)

hk

happyjack wrote: »

(The Minister for Justice, equality and law reform is particularly anxious that licenses are not issued for such military/ police type weapons in this country.)

This is a direct quote, nothing added or taken away, it plainly out lines that as a Chief Garda Superintendent he feels he is doing what Justice want him to do, even though I met with him and explained in detail that these guns are grandfathered under the CJB.

We've been left out in the cold, justice do not want to help us.

HJ:)

Well if that can be produced and other documents like it there is a much stronger case. The law says something different, if he doesnt want them he can add them to the prohibited list, he cant do what he wants. The law is voted through the Dail by all the members not him. That kind of attitude is quite simply people knowingly or unknowingly exceeding their authority and would be quite easily challenged in court.