Any of you politically minded?

DeVore

Curious what the measured opinion on the tribunals is amongst the boardsters.

I guess we can all throw hate mails at the politicians but thats not much use. How can it be stopped in a civilised country?

DeV.

Hobbes

I was taught as a kid never to get into conversations on Religion or politics.

Stephen

I don't know all that much about the issue, but it is certainly annoying the $hit out of me. All of these rich ba$tards have been screwing this country over to feed their numerous dodgy bank accounts throughout one of its roughest economical times (1980s).

What's more annoying is that a bunch of them will probably get away with it.

Just my $0.02.

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- Visit The Fortress
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TwoShedsJackson

All of them will get away with it - Ireland is inherently a corrupt country. Redmond wont be jailed, Haughey is just going to delay his trial until he dies.

Politically my views are close to the Socialist Workers Party, unfortunately I've met people in the SWP and you probably know what they can be like

Interesting article in the Irish Times yesterday about how in China corrupt politicians are shot in the head, instead of wasting taxpayers money on tribunals that will do fu<k all. Also there is zero sympathy for corrupt officials from the public there, as opposed to the traditional Irish thing of envying those who have money and power.

On the other hand they did say that China is more corrupt now than it was 20 years ago, so I reckon its just human nature to graft and steal. Probably thought control is the only way to stop it

Canaboid

Where you have democracy you will always have corruption. The system is based around favours granted and owed.
Balance that with the fact that we are fairly liberal (compared to say Norway) in our attitude to the law and it's enforcement. You can pretty much do whatever you like in Ireland as long as you don't plss anyone off doing it and I for one think thats a good thing.

DeVore

So what kind of system DOES work?

Could we see a cyber-government anytime? (ie decisions done by poll on the net)

DeV.

Steven

Easily rigged there Dev. Baad idea. I know, I've done it myself. Tibet used to be a republic until I got my net connection (obviously not true, shut up in advance )

TwoShedsJackson

I think a brutal police state (with me as leader, natch) would do the trick

amp

I think one of the problems is that the youth of today just aren't voting enough. Which means that mr and mrs Joe middleaged vote for Charlie FUPPIN McCreavy cos they know him.

Personally I vote greens and labour because while I don't agree with all of their policies at least they seem to care about something other than filling their own pockets.

And that is all I have to say about that.

WUSSAT??? IN FACTA!!

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Lunacy Abounds! Play GLminesweeper!

SantaHoe

LOL @ Amps' well-placed quote from Forest Gump

Politics?
Er well, I reckon the reason why most of us 'young non-voters' don't vote is because:
A) Who cares?
Nobody can be àrsed.
C) Whoever we vote for will be a tòsser anyway (ie. Cigarette prices go up, tax and insurance goes up, more immigrants come in, more tribunals)
D) Why watch the news when you can play Counter-Strike? hence- nobody knows who to vote for, and points 'A' and 'B' grow stronger.
E) Voting is for gimps (not my view, but a common enough one)

Politics shmolitics.

Shiminay

Well, My dad was mad into his politics - the then Taoiseach John Bruton sent his aide-de-camp to his funeral cause he couldn't go himself. Everyone assumed I'd kinda follow on (I know he was keen for me to do it).
Fact of the matter is, I have no interest in it. I am frineds with FG TD Enda Kenny (we actually share our birthday), and I votre for him whenever I must. My mother is friends with Padraig Flynn (of Late Late Show and Brown Envelope fame), and I'd vote for him too - he's done a lot for Castlebar and despite the scandal, is still very, very popular.
The way I see it, I'll vote for someone I know personally - given my heritage, that's quite a few people but I won't vote for someone because of their party and track record. It may not seem very political, but I've seen too many people fall out and come to blows over something as trivial as "the colour of your shirt."

That said, I did vote for Ming at the last election

Moving on - Ireland seems to have a very lax attitude towards corruption. UK Politicians resign at the first hint of scandal or sleaze, but over here, a politician is viewed as a "great man" if he's done something questionable (Bertie Ahern has a frickin mistress for christ sake!)

Enough deep political talk from me - I've got work to do!!!

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

WhiteWashMan

trial by fire.
burn the witches.

white(get out of the 18th century)wash

or a dictatorship with me in command

Shiminay

SHE TURNED ME INTO A NEWT!

I got better....

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

Draco

It's sickening seeing all these corrupt bastids get away with syphing off millions that could be well spent else where.

I've never voted in a general election as I live in Maynooth, but registered in Mullingar - why should I vote when I have no idea of the local issues or even the who the local politicans are.

I would never vote for the likes of the green party - while they do have other polices, they essentially are an one issue party.

The best government? Democracy is the best of a bad lot. Cyber-govenment would require alot of education of the general populas and everyone would need equal access to what ever method of polling was used.

Bertie Ahern may have a mistress, but at least everyone knows about it. Which is worse - him still being with the wife and pretending to be a family man, or out in the open with the fact the he's dumped the wife and has a mistress?

Draco

[This message has been edited by Draco (edited 08-06-2000).]

tr1n1ty

Oh boy, don't get me started....I promised I would not engage in conversations on politics but I just can't help myself......

1. Don't bother to complain about current politicians and say they should be all 'chucked out on their ears' unless you are prepared to replace them and do the job and whats to stop you.....? A recent study showed that politics was the least popular career choice for any young person. So how do we change things currently, unless somebody with a bit of 'backbone' and integrity gets in there and makes honest folk of them.

2. Dishonesty is a cultural thing in Ireland - how many times have you heard of people avoiding tax, Car or personal through
non declaration etc. Would we all try it if we thought we would get away with it? So we have to ask ourselves would we be any different if we were in a position of power?

3. I have always voted in an election, I picked the male or female on the list whose views best reflected my own on various topics. They have come to my front door and I have challenged them, which I'm sure many don't. But to be able to vote is a previledge that not everyone in the world enjoys. When things are bad - people talk plenty, but how many of them actually get up off their ass and go to vote either on issues or at election time?

For those who can't take the time to vote remember the people in Africa who were given the vote for the first time and who walked miles and stood for hours in the heat. Also those who have been beaten all because they wanted to vote. It was not that long ago when women didn't have the vote - they chained themselves to railings, some even died in pursuit of the right to vote.

On the subject of Mr. Flynn and his daughters, How many jobs and pensions does this man have? If I'm not mistaken he has or had a substitute teacher covering for him, while he was a minister for state and can claim pensions from his teching job, his Government job and as EU Commissioner this is just apart from his other side lines.

As for the two daughters - shady folk indeed, one who doesn't have correct tax and insurance on her business 'vehicle' which was deemed 'a death trap' for transporting children to school in. The other who whilst working for NIB got a wee club of tax doggers together to put their money somewhere safe just so the rest of us could pay more. Well Kharn, did they hand you a brown paper envelope? Try engaging your brain next time you go to vote There must be somebody worthwhile to vote for in Castlebar?

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To Infinity and Beyond!

PhilipMarlowe

An image that won't easily be rid from my memory is immediately after the Ben Dunne - Michael Lowry scandal, on the news that night, Lowry made a triumphant return to his home town (somewhere in tipperary..?), i think he was just after resigning from the dáil or something...

...well he was given a hero's welcome home...and there was this guy beside him...he was clapping and cheering so fúckin hard, his face and neck was all red and i was sure that he couldn't be for real...
..obviously he was genuine...

Ok..you ask what can be done..?
Well as long as this guy is alive...and anyone who has even 5% of his dementia is still around...well then not much...

ps. when is the vat rate going to be lowered to around 15%...like it should be..?

and when is the cost of a new car not going to be made up by over 50% tax..?

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www.licksy.net
info@licksy.net

amp

Problem is, the people who most want the power shouldn't get it. Douglas Adams put that to the extreme in HHGTTG. The real president of the galaxy was a man who refused to believe anything existed, even himself.
I think most politicians start out with grand ideas that they're going to change the world. Then they find out that in fact it's very hard to change the world. So some settle to change their own world and screw the poor cos "ah sure they'll always be poor"

Power corrupts, total power corrupts totally.

hmmm that's far too deep for my shallow brain.

WUSSAT?? GET MY COAT!!! <snip>

Amp: Its absolute power corrupts absolutely and what sort of problem do you have with dairy manufacturers.... -- DeV.

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Lunacy Abounds! Play GLminesweeper!

[This message has been edited by Charlie McCreevy who also has a secret dungeon full of Polish people in his nefarious company (edited 09-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by amp (edited 10-06-2000).]

Shiminay

Originally posted by tr1n1ty:
On the subject of Mr. Flynn and his daughters, How many jobs and pensions does this man have? If I'm not mistaken he has or had a substitute teacher covering for him, while he was a minister for state and can claim pensions from his teching job, his Government job and as EU Commissioner this is just apart from his other side lines.

As for the two daughters - shady folk indeed, one who doesn't have correct tax and insurance on her business 'vehicle' which was deemed 'a death trap' for transporting children to school in. The other who whilst working for NIB got a wee club of tax doggers together to put their money somewhere safe just so the rest of us could pay more. Well Kharn, did they hand you a brown paper envelope? Try engaging your brain next time you go to vote There must be somebody worthwhile to vote for in Castlebar?

Now hold up a second - I never once condoned what Pee Flynn did - it was unquestionably wrong. What I did say is that he is still very popular with the people of Castlebar because like many politicians, he has a certain charm that makes him very likable (this is in the same way as Lowry returned home to the hero's welcome mentioned above). Last election, I voted for Bev and for Enda Kenny and Michael Ring (both FG). I voted these people because a) I know them personally and b) the more people (irrespective of party) in the Dáil representing me and my area of the country, the better for me and future me's.
* Dav listens to his father turn in the grave with all this pro-FF talk * - if you knew my Dad, you'd realise how funny this is

As for Audry Flynn - she should be locked away and not be let out for what she did. Don't fúck with people's kids in that way. Not good.

Originally posted by Draco:
Bertie Ahern may have a mistress, but at least everyone knows about it. Which is worse - him still being with the wife and pretending to be a family man, or out in the open with the fact the he's dumped the wife and has a mistress?

Well put Karl, it's wrong for him to have a mistress, but yes, he is man enough not to hide it from the world. Perhaps he was a bad example of what I meant. Maybe Lowry is the man I need!

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

TwoShedsJackson

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I amn't :P, but a mistress is someone with whom a man is having an affair in secret whilst still living with his wife and kids.

This isnt the case with our Glorious Leader. He has a partner, hasnt lived with the wife in years, she knows all about it yadda yadda.

Of course he cant actually get a divorce cos that would be political suicide in our oh so enlightened country.

tr1n1ty

Just goes to show you how stupid some of our nation are! We get 'shagged' a number of times by these guys and we're still begging for more and saying what great guys they are!

Without putting to fine a point on it THEY SHOULD BE JAILED, THEY ARE CRIMINALS! They stole from us, they as good as took money from the sick who need better health care, the kids in school who need computers, shoes, food, whatever. Those who sleep and die on our streets. The likes of you and me who pay PAYE and VAT and get nothing for the PRSI we pay.

GV Wright in Dublin North was a TD in our constituency. I have been looking for planning permission to build a house. I phoned to see if I could enlist his support -I now know why he did nothing - I didn't hand him an envelope.....

As for CJ, if a politician ever tells us again, as he did in the '80's, to 'tighten our belts' they'll be able to hear me scream in Leinster House.

On the GRyan programme the other morning they had some moron phone in to 'wax lyrical'
on CJ and what he did for this country - to that I say b'sh1t. The people who made this country into what it is now are the ordinary joe-soaps in the street, the folks who emigrated in the '80s and earned us the title of a hard working nation. The others like myself who stayed to 'keep the lights on', get experience, start businesses and work hard. The kids at school, and those at college who are bright and capable, not Charlie Haughey and his cohorts.

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To Infinity and Beyond!

SheroN

I talk ****, have no morals and will accept brown envelopes...so i guess i'm politically minded.

Paladin

Good 1 Sher.
And I agree with you trinity, to a point.
That is I doubt I feel as extreme as you do, but I believe that if people of a country put your trust in you, and you abuse it to steal money from them (thats what 'they' did) then you deserved to be jailed.

You deserve to be jailed even more than "the guy from that poor neighbourhood, that sold drugs to make his money". <----hypothetical person, but u know the type I mean.

Its the diffenrence between the common criminal and the the uncommon criminal.

The uncommon criminal does bigger crimes and has people lose faith in him.

The common criminal is just jailed.

WhiteWashMan

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I amn't :P, but a mistress is someone with whom a man is having an affair in secret whilst still living with his wife and kids

yes conor you are wrong!
it doesnt have to be a secret to be a mistress.

as for the tribunals and all this politics which i actually have very little faith in.... well, who votes em in?

personally if i were to vote id vote FF as i reckon they have done a fair enough job of getting this country back onto the right track and get all that. they may be corrupt, but show me a nation that isnt. the difference is that our corrupt governments are trated like most of its a funny joke, and if anything gets serious, its brushed away under the carpet by long drawn out tribunals that loose momentum and direction after the first year. after which everyone has forgotten what it was they were having a tribunal for coz someone else has come into the limelight!
anyway, sure arent we all euroPEONs now!

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan:
yes conor you are wrong!
it doesnt have to be a secret to be a mistress.

Did I say it had to be secret, i said it usually is. My point is that Ahern doesnt live in a house with the wife and kids and act like hes all happy family man.

As for voting for FF, if you did vote, a country gets the government it deserves. Stop voting for FF just cos 'they're all at it' - vote for someone who isnt corrupt.

WhiteWashMan

and that would be?

the only way this country would have a corruption free government was if iwas in charge. well known god fearing man me..

Draco

For those of you who haven't seen a paper in the last few day, Berties bit on the side is not his "mistress" she is his "partner". Apparently. And bertie'll send the boys around to have a few words if you say otherwise.

Draco