Are people inherently evil?

Hobbes

Just a thought. I was reading Lum the Mad news site (for RPG's) and he had a news story from Ralph Koster (Creator of Ultima Series).

He basically said the main problem with thier Online game was in general most people who play are scum and will try and exploit the rules if they believe they can get away with it.

I was just wondering what peoples opinion is on this? (I'll give mine later )

Bard

Are people inherently evil?

er... well I know I'm not... so... I'm guessing the generalisation is just that... a generalisation, and therefore unfair and untrue.

damo

Constructive comments please

[This message has been edited by Castor Troy (edited 05-06-2000).]

Hobbes

You too Hobbes


[This message has been edited by Castor Troy (edited 05-06-2000).]

ButcherOfNog

people aren't inherently evil, well most aren't, but the majority of people play games to "win", some will play "fair" as they have a sense of decency and despise cheating, some will go to any lengths to "win". If a large number of players are using a cheat, then that cheat becomes deemed as "fair" and everyone uses it (fullbrights in qw etc)

Winning is everything to some, it may be the highest frag count, the biggest army or having the magicyish spear

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ButcherOfNog
Hot Internet Virgins
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Adversary

yes, duh!

oh! it's actually about games!

just look at uktfcl or pgl - most people play games to win, not for fun

SantaHoe

"most people play games to win, not for fun"

...and then after a while...

Winning becomes the only source of fun.
People get all angry when they lose, and turn to cheating or being abusive.

...probably

FreaK_BrutheR

Hobbler. That amount of posts is gettin'g foolish man!

amp

Nah, people aren't inherently evil. They're inherently lazy. Why spend hours building up a character when you can cheat?

I blame capitalism and Donkey pr0n.

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Lunacy Abounds! Play GLminesweeper!

Hobbes

Originally posted by FreaK_BrutheR:
Hobbler. That amount of posts is gettin'g foolish man!

I only account for 3.4% of all total posts on this board. As does WWMan (although he's in the lead). I stopped looking at the count a long time ago (after 2K it no longer matters).

BossArky

Certain people are evil, it is in their nature, others can be breed into it, others are just animals, instinct rules them.

SheroN

I am evil......i kill with out remorse....

Paladin

Nah, people aren't inherently evil. They're inherently lazy

I agree.

WhiteWashMan

just checkin to see what my post count is at

WhiteWashMan

hmm, im only 16 in the lead there hobbes

... well I know I'm not... so... I'm guessing the generalisation is just that... a generalisation, and therefore unfair and untrue.

well, a generalisation means that it takeson the most usual form...and therefore is true for most things that are being generalised about. of course there are always exceptions to the rules.
as for the question are people inherintly evil, then id say no. people are motivated by less 'drastic' states as evil, or even goodness. people are people.
and its just me, but i like building up characters. its half the fun. however it takes 20 million hours online to build your character im bound to say 'fu<k that' and see if i can cheat!

Manach

/*Using a step ladder to climb pulpit*/
My opinion, people initially are amoral, seeking their own greatest betterment, at their own least convience - tough on anyone in their way. State/Church/Society/TFC
providing later standards for good/evil. Being amoral does led to life being 'Short, nasty & brutish' - Hobbes, that is the philospher, and not the Stuffed Tiger, or indeed He-who-has-no-taste-in-puns-Hobbes.

Pretence

Inherently evil!!??

I like to think its not possible and that people are a product of their environment.

tr1n1ty

I can't speak on the subject of Gamers but on people general I have an interesting trial they carried out with a group of students - if you do behavioural science as part of a business degree you will come across this study.

A group of students were split into two groups prisoners and wardens. They were placed in a set up similiar to a prison and given instructions on their duties. After a period of time the wardens started mentally and physically abusing the prisoners and the study was stopped. Those that were prisoners were given the job or wardens and wardens became prisoners, what was really interesting was that the intensity of the abuse in the second set up. Instead of understanding and empathising with the prisoners they abused them even more!

My point being, that if a person is in an agressive/abusive situation, they learn from that to the power of 10.

If you look at the prisoners we have in our jails today. They don't 'see the light' in jail, come out and become pure and perfect christians. They go back to their old ways, in fact they're probably worse because they made new contacts inside the 'nick'.

You only have to look at the Nazis - all they wanted was dominance, control and power, in government, banking and business. The Jews were strong in these areas. The nazis set about destroying them, 'stamping' them out until they were no more.

Then you take football holigans. There just seems to be a type of anti-social human being that exists these days. Is it that they have had no decent role models in there lives? Have they no respect for others or is it just a complete lack of morals or fundamentally not knowing right from wrong?

In answer to your question - not everyone, just a few rotten apples......

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To Infinity and Beyond!

Paladin

I remember reading about this study that was done in the US.
Peaple were paid $50 to help out this college proffesseur carry out an electro-shock experiment. What happened was that the professeurs real assistant sat in an electric chair, while in an ajoining room with a glass window was the professeur and the guy paid to help him.
This guy was told to operate the power dial, with settings on it such as 'mild shock' 'strong shock' 'dangerously painful' 'fatal shock' etc.
Now they guy in the chair didnt really have any shocks being administered to him, but the guy on the dial didnt know this. The guy on the dial was assured that this person had agreed to sit in the chair, and was told by the guy in the chair not to stop, even if he told him to.
He was told to up the power bit by bit, while the guy in the chair sat taking the pain bit by bit, until he was screaming in agony demanding to be let go. The proffeseur told him to go right up to the setting before fatal, while the guy in the chair pretended to convulse and black out and spit out fake blood n sh1t making it really realistic.
Now a few hundred ppl did this test. I think it was only 20% of the people stopped because they thought they were killing the guy, while an amazing 80% of the people continued, even though as far as they knew they were almost killing this guy.

What did this prove?
Well it doesnt prove anything, but 80% of the tested ppl willingly tortured a guy half to death in the name of science. The test was actually to see if people would do anything that authority figures told them to do, but I think it applies here.
Inherently evil?
Dunno.
Perhaps its only our moral values that make us not evil.
Morals are learned however. Mostly from the environment in which we are brought up, but ppl do learn and make thier own values that are different to those of the ppl around them.

I still rekon that was one cool experiment though (not in a sadistic way). I cant believe so many ppl would willingly torture someone like that.

BossArky

In my 18 years I may not have had as many experiences as you auld folk but I've sure met some dangerously evil people, I don't mean physco killers or anything, but the kind of people that viciosly immoral to a point of really fuking peoples lives up, or trying their best.

I think this has thought me things.

I really hate spastics.

[This message has been edited by BossArky (edited 16-06-2000).]