When utter chaos abounds

tr1n1ty

I'm sure many of you have read about the recent happenings in New York over the weekend...well for those that didn't, 40 women were either physically and or sexually assaulted in Central Park by a gang of roaming youths. It was Puerto Rican Day and there were plenty of Police on duty about 950 located in Central Park which would be like having 100 Gardai in St Stephens Green -you couldn't miss seeing something. They saw the whole thing unfold and did nothing. When asked about their inaction, they said that they were told to 'back off' minority groups. Have they gone mad in America? First we had the Gonzales child and all the uproar that it caused in 'little Havanna' now we have the Puerto Ricans and the fiasco in Central Park.

A number of years ago we had this problem with crime and police inertia in Ireland and it took the killing of Veronica Guerin and the national outcry which followed to get things started. I felt, as many did, that we needed to claim our country back from these drug barons and murderers. What about the english man knifed as he walked home with his family last weekend?

Why are we so afraid to tackle these problems head on?

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To Infinity and Beyond!

FreaK_BrutheR

Well I'm living in Donegal, Buncrana to be exact and the lack of police intervention in ANYTHING to do with violence is just incredible really. There are people battered every weekend here, glassed, stabbed whatever and they still don't do anything. A guy I know was stabbed through the back of the neck and face in the middle of a crowded bar about 4 months ago. The guy who did it, and everyone saw it, is still walking about the streets. (He has been named in a few other assault/drugs cases too and he's like 19). A guy got beaten to death here about 3/4 months ago too after a pub row. It was apparently accidental as he had a heart attack when being kicked on the ground and apparently this was due to his dicky ticker....but dead nonetheless. There was a guy ran over about 3/4 weeks ago and no one knows whether it was on purpose or not...some people saw it was some saw accidental. These are NOT IRA related incidents like. These are all young guys i went to school with an all. I mean I live in community of like 3-4000 people with supposidly the highest policing per capita (border town an all) in the country and its still hairy enough walking down the streets after clubs etc. Even when the police do something the (unts are let off in court. I mean I know these two guys beat another guy till he was paralysed down one side of his body for 7 months and got 30 odd stitches......they got 2 years suspended and a 500quid fine. er....hello! Where's the punishment in that? (unts are laughing they are and i don't like it one bit.

Fu(k american policing look at the state of here!

tr1n1ty

Not for one minute would I even suggest that we are tackling crime in Ireland - maybe big crime - drugs, money laundering, stuff that makes the gardai look good in the paper and a lot of the time the really good work is carried out by that special 'drug squad'. My feeling is that local stuff is not being handled in as tough a fashion. I think that the gardai have too many old 'PC Plods'that have been used to sitting on their backsides and now their expected to actually do something. The young guys who arrive in are told 'not to rock the boat' so what do you do?

I agree with you Freak, I don't know of any town in Ireland today that doesn't have these stories, in fact they are all to common these days.

Shiminay

Agreed - Castlebar the same way. They make a deal of "high profile" problems (cause it's good politically) but gangs of thugs get away with murder. I dunno how many times I've had to break up fights that my mates got themselves into while the Gardaí sat across the road in the squad car looking at it happen.
I've got a few Gardaí aquantainces and neighbours and I've often pulled them up on it especially when a friend's involved. They've always fobbed me off saying "Sure nothing happened - it was borken up" or "They were gone when we got there" (an hour later).

Not on boys!

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

SantaHoe

Damn, a lot of that just sickens me, the cràp people can get away with.

I reckon a good idea would be to give most criminals a psychological examination of some sort, and determine who the dangerously aggressive people are and get them some help.
Drunk or not, you must have some sort of anger problems if you go out and kick someone to death.

Maybe an extended stay in the mental hospital would be more of a deterrent (and perhaps more suitable) than jail?

Is it at all possible that overly aggressive criminals could be stopped if they were given proper counselling early on before the problem begins?

This is probably already going on, but just by listening to the news, it's clear that they need to try a lot harder.

Paladin

Its intresting actually. There is another thread "are ppl inherently evil" thats sorta like this.
You have major problems in this country with dealing with the guys described (ones who stab etc.).
What can you do? Bring them into court. They get a suspended sentence.
If they destroy your car - bring them to court. The court finds that they are on the dole and cant pay damages so they are pretty much left off. I know im being general here with the dole thing, im just giving an example.
It all starts with doing wrong and being punished.
I remember when i did anything wrong when i was a kid, i got hit/slapped by my parents, and im sure a lot of ppl did. I learnt right and wrong. In primary school I had respect for teachers in the sense that i was scared of getting in trouble for doing anything wrong.
There are guys in my school who come from the 'poorer' areas where many ppl are on welfare. Some have single mothers etc.
Now the thing is, from about age 6 these guys were roaming the streets on their own doing whatever they wanted. In schools they just told teachers to F off. What can the teacher do? They cant hit them. They find it almost impossible to expel them (which doesnt make them any better anyway) so in the end these guys grow up being complete scum.
I know Im being general here, but to an extent its pretty accurate. Dont get me wrong, there are guys on welfare who are the soundest people I know, but percentage wise there are more incidences of violence etc with 'less well off ppl'.
I guess it all stems from poverty and greed.
Corrupt government doesnt bloody help either.

Maybe a state like Pakistan where punishment for any crime is massive, is what you need to stop incidences of crime. Is it worth the trade off in quality of life though?

Basically I throw up my hands and say, I really dont know what we can do. Assh0les will be assh0les, and they will always exist.
Just try to keep ureself the best u can I guess.
Ah well. Back to the Humour board then

FreaK_BrutheR

Well i won't go into my childhood in detail but I'm from a fairly well off family. I roamed the treets, got locked up a couple of times (for the night just), got expelled from school the whole bit but i never laid a hand on another person unless it was self defence in my life. It's got less to do with money than people seem to think and more to do with circumstance whether family or external. I'm a nice guy (self praise no praise blah blah blah) and cause no one any harm....just ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people on the wrong substance etc... Im 26 now and its all WELL behind me at this stage...alot of the people i hung round with then are still doing the same ****....some are in prison... 2 are dead... but the majority of us just grew up and got on with our lives. They're still probably some of the best guys you'll meet and I still consider them a family of sorts....even the bad ****ers who are STILL battling and still being (unts....they still know me as well if not better than alot of people I hang round with now.

That said I always, and still do hate violence and any kind of maliciousness towards individuals. The police should stop harrasing petty dope smokers and drunks and deal with the real trouble. The government or someone should deal with the fact that young people, male in particular, are under serious pressure to perform and go places in society. The "place" of the young male in society is changing or at least being amlgamted with that of young females for really the first time. This, of course, is a good thing but adds to the pressures that males are under. The competitive nature of nearly any activity in modern society is bound to breed this kind of aggressive response. Females indeed are getting more and more aggressive too. I know some pretty hairy women out there too.

Anyway, I was never good at essays and stuff so I'll shut up now.

Paladin

I agree Freak_bro.
Ure right cops should deal more with violent crime really, I guess its just that the amount of drug violence is going up and the media is printing a lot about it.
Well said tho (for a guy who claims to be bad at essays )

Shiminay

One word - Politics.

It's good to tackle these things head one one week and not good the next. It's a complete farse. I hadn't heard of that American thing, but jesus christ!!! Dumb ass NYPD - the grunts aren't totally to blame - they had orders (that said, that's not the kind of order I'd stick to if I was witnessing that sort of thing!).

I completely agree with the observation about Veronica Guerin. It's just a shame that something as tragic as that had to happen in order for digits to be extracted from orifaces.

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

Stephen

Here in Kilkenny, you don't want to be outside after the pubs and clubs close. Every weekend you hear of people getting beaten and knifed etc, over some fúcking stupid things like this:

Some thug comes up and asks for "a spare fag mister" - Get's told that the person doesn't smoke, and proceeds to beat seven shades of sh1te out of them.

And they all bloody get away with it. A few months ago, one person was beaten so badly on the street that he is now paralyzed from the neck down.

Something needs to be done.

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- Munch
- Visit The Fortress
- -SK- Clan site

SantaHoe

Yep, that "got a smoke" cràp happens everywhere.
If you hear it, just run.
Or break a bottle over his head

Adversary

I know some pretty hairy women too *shudder*

What do you mean by sexually assaulted? Do you mean raped or just the usual ****e drunk young men do? America's definition of "sexually assaulted" can be way different to ours.

Crime and punishment is a trickey area. I know some druggies who are the scum of the earth. They'd knife you to death for a few quid. They've been in and out of jail as long as I can remember and they are always let out for "good behaviour", though they behave the same way inside as they do outside. I think these people should be hung and never be allowed hurt anyone again.

But I know some other people who, up until a few years ago were just as bad. They got their act sorted and, while you still wouldn't trust them, I wouldn't expect a knife in the back if I took my eye off them either.

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by Adversary:
What do you mean by sexually assaulted? Do you mean raped or just the usual ****e drunk young men do? America's definition of "sexually assaulted" can be way different to ours.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Adversary

see this is that community thing Hobbes posted. Castor didn't like something I said in the books board so he's taking the **** just for the sake of it.

Take no notice and he'll go away


Will he now?

[This message has been edited by Castor Troy (edited 19-06-2000).]

Adversary

Oi! That's sneaky

where'd all me smilies go?

SheroN

Yea....freak_bro is actually a nice person and all...i met the lad...so i did...he left me use his puter.....

Pretence

G'wan Paul ya mad thing ya