Columbia 3 given 17-year sentences

RicardoSmith

BCB wrote:

The majority of killings carried out by the IRA were justified.

Thats a different topic. Unless you have some stats, and criteria for those stats its meaningless.

BCB

RicardoSmith wrote:

Thats a different topic. Unless you have some stats, and criteria for those stats its meaningless.

the "stats" are that the majority they killed were enemy personnel which in my book is justifiable.....

Cork

BCB wrote:

The majority of killings carried out by the IRA were justified.

"The IRA killed 73 children under the age of 18. It killed building workers on their way home, shoppers having a cup of tea, women collecting census forms, young couples having a drink in a pub in Birmingham, people honouring the dead of two world wars, mothers looking for a bit of cod in the local fish shop."

the "stats" are that the majority they killed were enemy personnel which in my book is justifiable.....

Could you provide us a link to your stats? (Apart from SF/IRA propaganda)

RicardoSmith

BCB wrote:

the "stats" are that the majority they killed were enemy personnel which in my book is justifiable.....

Since its panto season...."oh no they didn't"....

BCB

Cork wrote:

"


Could you provide us a link to your stats? (Apart from SF/IRA propaganda)

there you go.......


http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html#statusperpetrator

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

RicardoSmith

BCB wrote:

there you go.......


http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html#statusperpetrator

Looks like 60/40. I knew it was bad but thats horrific.

cdebru

Cork wrote:

"The IRA killed 73 children under the age of 18. It killed building workers on their way home, shoppers having a cup of tea, women collecting census forms, young couples having a drink in a pub in Birmingham, people honouring the dead of two world wars, mothers looking for a bit of cod in the local fish shop."

british crown forces killed 193 unarmed civilians

among them are
<LI>

Carol Ann Kelly, aged 12, was found by the coroner to be an innocent victim who had been walking home from a shop carrying a carton of milk.

<LI>

Julie Livingstone, aged 14, was walking towards her home when she was hit in the head by a plastic bullet fired from an army saracen. She also was described by the inquest jury as “an innocent victim”

<LI>

Paul Whitters, aged 15, was killed, and an independent investigation into his death conducted in 1982 by Lord Gifford, concluded that there was “no possible defence” for the boy’s killing.

<LI>

Nora McCabe, one of the four adults killed that same year had three young children of her own, aged 7, 2, and 3 months old.

all killed by plastic bullets in 1981 alone

of the 193 murders only 18 resulted in prosecutions only 3 in convictions

pt Ian thain received a life sentence he served 2 years and was readmitted back to his regiment

pt lee clegg received a life sentence he served 2 years was readmitted to his regiment and later promoted

the other soldier convicted received 12 months in a young offenders institute

these figures do not include the numerous people murdered by loyalist agents acting on behalf of the the crown forces.

so do we keep counting the dead see if we can work out who had the best score or who should feel more aggrieved or do we try to work our way out of this.

mike65

..and don't you think the is sooooooo appropriate? :rolleyes:

the full list of the dead up to end 2001 can be found here -

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/alpha/index.html

Mike.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

A Dub in Glasgo

Sorry Dave, I think it has been proven that the British Forces are answerable to nobody. Just look at the amount of soldiers prosecuted. Look at the amount convicted. Look at the length of time served. Look at what happens when they get out. The British Forces can murder in Ireland with impunity.

RicardoSmith

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Sorry Dave, I think it has been proven that the British Forces are answerable to nobody. Just look at the amount of soldiers prosecuted. Look at the amount convicted. Look at the length of time served. Look at what happens when they get out. The British Forces can murder in Ireland with impunity.

Thats not right either. But look at the total killings. IRA 49% BF 9%.

A Dub in Glasgo

RicardoSmith wrote:

But look at the total killings. IRA 49% BF 9%.

That has nothing to do with what I posted, I was referring to the amount of BF who get investigated/prosecuted/convicted for the killings.

RicardoSmith

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

That has nothing to do with what I posted, I was referring to the amount of BF who get investigated/prosecuted/convicted for the killings.

I don't get what point you are making. Are you saying The amount is out of proportion to the 9% vs 49% ? Or that the number of BF prosecuted has no relationship to the numbers of those killed. Thats not logical. But justifying murder is just not something I will discuss anymore. I also don't see how this relates to to Columbia.

arcadegame2004

Originally posted by BCB
The majority of killings carried out by the IRA were justified.

No they weren't! They killed around 2,000 people. Which victims do you consider to have been justifiably killed? The Shankill bombings victims maybe? Or the 2 children killed at Warrington? How did their deaths benefit Ireland? :mad:

cdebru while you are completely correct to mention the catalogue of killings of innocent civilians at the hands of brutal elements of the British security forces, possibly acting on higher ie political, authority, that does not justify what the IRA did in maiming and murdering thousands of innocent men, women and children for the 'crime' of being a Protestant or being in a mixed marriage.

cdebru

Cork wrote:

"The IRA killed 73 children under the age of 18. It killed building workers on their way home, shoppers having a cup of tea, women collecting census forms, young couples having a drink in a pub in Birmingham, people honouring the dead of two world wars, mothers looking for a bit of cod in the local fish shop."


Could you provide us a link to your stats? (Apart from SF/IRA propaganda)

I just had a look through the list of victims provided by the link by mike

the figure you have given of 73 does not tally with that list i reckon it is about 60 under 18 years of age
that would include about about 14 IRA or Na fianna members accidently killed by premature explosions or shot accidently by fellow IRA members
so take that figure away
the actual figure is around 46 under 18 years of age killed by the provisionals

cdebru

arcadegame2004 wrote:

No they weren't! They killed around 2,000 people. Which victims do you consider to have been justifiably killed? The Shankill bombings victims maybe? Or the 2 children killed at Warrington? How did their deaths benefit Ireland? :mad:

cdebru while you are completely correct to mention the catalogue of killings of innocent civilians at the hands of brutal elements of the British security forces, possibly acting on higher ie political, authority, that does not justify what the IRA did in maiming and murdering thousands of innocent men, women and children for the 'crime' of being a Protestant or being in a mixed marriage.

can you go to the list on the link provided by mike and show me the thousands
of men women and children killed because of their religion by the provisional IRA or because they were in a mixed marriage
that is patently untrue

My point was this is not one sided the IRA are not alone in having killed Children or innocent civilians
But you would never guess that by alot of the posts on here

cdebru

RicardoSmith wrote:

I don't get what point you are making. Are you saying The amount is out of proportion to the 9% vs 49% ? Or that the number of BF prosecuted has no relationship to the numbers of those killed. Thats not logical. But justifying murder is just not something I will discuss anymore. I also don't see how this relates to to Columbia.

the point he is making is that the British army were not held accountable for their actions in Ireland

193 unarmed civilians including many children killed by the british crown forces

18 prosecutions

3 convictions

2 life sentences both served 2 years of their life sentence and were released and readmitted to theit former regiment one was then promoted

1 12 month sentence in a young offenders institute

Bloody Sunday whitewashed no one even charged

that is not being held to account

billy the squid

the number of civilians killed by the IRA outnumber the number of anything killed by the brittish army.

cdebru

billy the squid wrote:

the number of civilians killed by the IRA outnumber the number of anything killed by the brittish army.

You should edit that and rephrase it I know what you are trying to say but it just sounds offensive

next point its not a numbers game

you can make numbers say what you want

the IRA killed many times more crown forces than the crown forces killed IRA members
if you take into account the number of civilians killed by loyalists at the behest of the british security services how many are the British responsible for then
are the British responsible for civilians killed by loyalists were they turned a blind eye we know loyalist were riddled with british agents and informers
what are those numbers no one can be sure

None of this moves the situation on

Sparks

cdebru wrote:

You should edit that and rephrase it I know what you are trying to say but it just sounds offensive

It doesn't sound offensive, it's relating an offensive fact. Now if you could show it was false, that'd be different. You can't, though, can you?

next point its not a numbers game

It's not even a game.

gandalf

This thread has totally gone off topic and was going around in circles anyway. Thread Closed.