Joaquin to chelsea

David19

It seems like he'll sign for them. Its just a matter of when. He's a great player and I reckon he'll do very well in the premiership as he's skillful, fast and strong. It'll be interesting to see who plays between duff, robben and him. I don't think they could all fit in the team. Is this bad news for duff? I can see joaquin getting his game with robben. Obviously there'll be some rotation though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/4100601.stm

eirebhoy

David19 wrote:

Is this bad news for duff?

Well Mourinho said last week that Duff is his best player so I think he'd be safe.

They could fit in the same team though if Lampard improved defensively.

---

Duff

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Robben----Lampard---Makelele---Joaquin

smemon

utd could do with him, good player. i dunno why we didnt swoop for him a year or 2 ago, we could yet regret not buying like we have done ronaldinho, robben.

obviously chelsea dont him need him but it would be yet another bar of gold in chelsea's dressing room.

David19

Yeah I was thinking they could push duff or robben up front. Joaquin will get his game I'd say, as he's a natural right winger. I think he could make the same impact robben did.

Jivin Turkey

smemon wrote:

obviously chelsea dont him need him but it would be yet another bar of gold in chelsea's dressing room.

Hardly, who plays on the right side of midfield for Chelsea? Bar Geremi (and not even really him) they have no natural width there.

The Clown Man

Actually, the setup between duff and robben switching sides whenever they give each other the nod seems to work really well imho. It adds some personalised flair to the attacking wings. I'd say that the addition of joaquin will give mourinho more options as regards attacking formations.

By the looks of things I'd say his ideal team would be one in which he can play any number of given formations after substitutions which would then be immediately effective. Think about it. A team that could change their formation completely and play perfectly in the new formation would be a hell of a team to beat. Would take the depth of a squad to new levels.

With those three on one team there is little limit to the shape of the attack.

smemon

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Hardly, who plays on the right side of midfield for Chelsea? Bar Geremi (and not even really him) they have no natural width there.

well i wasnt thinking so much of the right side, just midfield in general. take in juaquin and it'll put robben, duff, lampard etc out of the side. i feel chelsea need to offload players before they can take some in. you can only fit so many golden eggs in a basket.

anyway murinho has stated yesterday he'll not be buying anyone in january so if that's the case expect a fight for him in june. utd although they say have no money could well try and prise him off chelsea.

eirebhoy

smemon wrote:

take in juaquin and it'll put robben, duff, lampard etc out of the side.

Last season they used to play a 4-4-2 with Duff and Gronkjaer on the wings and Lampard and Makelele in the middle. This season they're playing a 4-5-1/4-3-3 so Robben or Duff can play behind the striker with Joaquinn on the right and one of the other two on the left. That means Tiago, Smertin, Geremi, Cole and Parker would be left out. Geremi is a certainty to be sold, Smertin is happy being a backup player and Cole is also most likely going to go. Parker has also been linked with loan moves to a number of clubs.

Big Ears

I doubt he wants to go to United , for the past 3 years he's been saying Real Madrid is his dream move , and its only recently that he supposedly said he would like to go to another club (another club being Chelsea) .

He has no shown any ambition of playing for United .

smemon

Big Ears wrote:

He has no shown any ambition of playing for United .

WHAT?! thats certainly not what ive heard. i dunno about the madrid thing but i know for a fact he's said he'd love to play for united. in fact i have a quote from the man himself:

"To play for United would be like running out
in front of the bulls in Pamplona."

LegacyUser

smemon wrote:

WHAT?! thats certainly not what ive heard. i dunno about the madrid thing but i know for a fact he's said he'd love to play for united. in fact i have a quote from the man himself:

"To play for United would be like running out
in front of the bulls in Pamplona."

Oh calm down. Ronaldinho allegedly said the same ****. Look where he is.

The truth is whoever pays the most money for him will get him.

Big Ears

smemon wrote:

WHAT?! thats certainly not what ive heard. i dunno about the madrid thing but i know for a fact he's said he'd love to play for united. in fact i have a quote from the man himself:

"To play for United would be like running out
in front of the bulls in Pamplona."

My source is Guillem Ballegue(sp?) who is almost always right when it comes to Spanish football . He's the main analist for Spanish football on SKY .

I can only assume your quote is from some tabloid or some-one/thing that had a tabloid as their source . Unless you can shed anymore light on the matter .

eirebhoy

Big Ears wrote:

My source is Guillem Ballegue(sp?) who is almost always right when it comes to Spanish football . He's the main analist for Spanish football on SKY .

I can only assume your quote is from some tabloid or some-one/thing that had a tabloid as their source . Unless you can shed anymore light on the matter .

A bit of googling brings:
http://itv-football.co.uk/News/story_75679.shtml

Big Ears

eirebhoy wrote:

A bit of googling brings:
http://itv-football.co.uk/News/story_75679.shtml

'Sanchez told The Sun:'

Maybe you should find another source .

Bateman

Lads, I know Mourinho is a chancer, but as a Chelsea fan I'd be inclined to believe him when he says he has no plans to add to the squad in January. Joaquín will go to Madrid IMO, and probably not before the summer, when Figo will probably leave (contract or not). Peréz is crazy about him.

Big Ears

Bateman wrote:

Lads, I know Mourinho is a chancer, but as a Chelsea fan I'd be inclined to believe him when he says he has no plans to add to the squad in January. Joaquín will go to Madrid IMO, and probably not before the summer, when Figo will probably leave (contract or not). Peréz is crazy about him.

I have to agree with everything here . Joaquin is going to Real .

smuckers

and the plot thickens.

Following on from yesterday's Joaquín rumour, a newspaper in Joaquín's home town (and where his current club, Betis is based) is publishing a wealth of details of the negotiations between all the parties. To sum up: there is total agreement, and the deal will be signed - and announced - next week.


Let's recap: yesterday, out of the blue, the Daily Mirror managed to speak to Betis winger Joaquín. The Spanish international said that the idea of playing for Chelsea was certainly an attractive one for him, as Chelsea are the biggest club in the world. That's just as well, as Chelsea have been on Joaquín's case for over a year now. The Mirror also said that Chelsea had tabled a bid for Joaquín, and that a deal was close to being finalised.

The article in the Mirror caused alarm bells to ring in the Spanish sports press, which reported the Mirror's article. And then, the press managed to corner the Betis President, Manuel Ruiz de Lopera, who confirmed that he had a Chelsea bid (said to be 'revolutionary) on the table. And he found his own ways to say that it was very possible that Joaquín would be leaving Betis.

And today the story is developed further. A regional newspaper in Spain which is well placed to know what is happening, states quite clearly that Joaquín will become a Chelsea player in a matter of days. Neither the Betis President, nor the player himself could resist Chelsea's offer, which is said to be €41 million - just over £28 million. As always in these cases, there is a discrepancy as to the precise figures involved. One newspaper ('As') said that the offer was €35 million. Other sources in the UK said that the bid was closer to €43 million.

The newspaper in question is 'El Diario de Sevilla' - the main paper of Betis' home town. It's a serious paper, and has very good links with the Sevilla clubs. Their piece on the matter (entitled, quite simply, 'Joaquín leaves for Chelsea') is filled with a wealth of details. For instance, we learn that the contract that Chelsea has offered Joaquín a six year contract, and he will receive a massive €6 million per year. Or a smidgen under £79,000 per week. Apparently there is an agreement already between player, Chelsea, and Betis, all that is missing is to sign the documents. The paper says that this will happen very shortly either in Madrid or at Betis.

It was well known that Joaquín was keen to go to Madrid. However, apparently, Joaquín himself told Madrid president Florentino Pérez that he was tired of waiting (in typical Andaluz, he told Pérez that 'the rice was now overcooked'). So the player started thinking very carefully about Chelsea's interest. Chelsea's offer over the summer was for €30 million. This was rejected, but it has been rising steadily to the current €41 million. Apparently, Joaquín's calls to his friend Reyes at Arsenal seem to have been crucial (one wonders whether this is the first time that we could be grateful to Arsenal) to find out what it was like to live in London. And then the Betis President admitted that, faced with such an offer, he was going to have to accept Chelsea's bid.

Apparently the situation in the Betis squad is changing at the moment. Whereas Joaquín was the absolute lynchpin of the team, Betis now consider that Oliveira and Edu could well substitute him - particularly in the hearts of the Betis faithful, who, whilst they were keen on Joaquín, were not delighted that he seems to have been thinking of leaving over the past 4 years, and particularly during the last12 months.

'El Diario de Sevilla' publishes a wealth of further details about the negotiations. A key date was November 24th. Ruiz de Lopera had been negotiating with Peter Kenyon by telephone for over a year (longer, even, if you consider that Kenyon had been trying his luck for his previous paymasters, Manchester United). But Betis only accepted Chelsea's latest offer last month. The agreement was made by fax, although it was specified that the deal was subject to another agreement between Joaquín and Chelsea - and that there would be a meeting between the 3 sides to sign all the documents. It is this last phase which is yet to take place. If this hasn't yet happened, it is only because Ruiz de Lopera is waiting for the most appropriate moment to announce Joaquín's sale. Indeed, apparently the Betis President asked Chelsea to wait until the end of the year. Apparently it will be after the weekend Betis - Sevilla derby, but before Christmas, that there will be some hard news.

On November 24th, Peter Kenyon made a quick trip to Sevilla, in the company of one of Chelsea's lawyers. They didn't meet with Ruiz de Lopera, but with Joaquín's representative. The representative was not his agent. It was Joaquín's Dad, Aurelio Sánchez, who was accompanied by one of Ruiz de Lopera's people, as well as a lawyer of the Barcelona cabinet that is representing Joaquín's legal interests. The meeting took place in a hotel compex, and Mr Sánchez agreed the terms. Apparently the meeting took place between 6 and 9 at night.

With the deal on personal terms between Chelsea and Joaquín agreed, the player's father called his son to tell him the details. But Joaquín wanted to hear it himself. So everybody went to a restaurant at the Hotel Occidental. To this dinner, Joaquín turned up in person. He heard everything directly from Kenyon, and gave his green light to a deal that will net him quite a lot of money.

But, as well as Kenyon, somebody else had to approve the deal - and that is José Mourinho. Mourinho likes to look his players directly in their eyes, especially when we are talking about an operation as important as this one. And he was able to do this in Madrid last week. Apparently José's impression of the player was very positive.

Concludes the Sevilla paper that nobody will be able to come between the parties in this deal. Not that anybody wants to: the agreement is total, and all that it is necessary is to fix a date for all to come together and sign the contracts.

This wealth of detail comes on top of yesterday's rumours, not to mention the clear admittance by the Betis President that he was 'close' to accepting a deal. Indeed, one wonders whether the piece in yesterday's Mirror, which came completely out of the blue, is not part of the media management of the story, preparing everybody for the fact that Joaquín is shortly to switch clubs. "For the moment we've said no, but it could well be that one day we say yes" is what Ruiz de Lopera stated yesterday. Apparently, if 'El Diario de Sevilla' is to be believed, Ruiz de Lopera has, in fact, already said yes. "The thing is, they are giving me a lot of money" is what the local paper quotes him as saying sotto voce about Chelsea's offer.

Certainly Joaquín's positive words about Chelsea were very big news in Spain, as was Ruiz de Lopera's hollow promise that he could guarantee only that Joaquín will be playing the club's next two games until Christmas. It made the main national TV news yesterday evening.

One wonders how this ties in with the declarations that Mourinho made yesterday suggesting that he wasn't looking to make any signings shortly. "I do not want to sign any players in the January transfer window. I just want to keep my players and avoid injuries," he said. "The hard thing for me in England is to have only five players on the bench. I go to Arsenal and have to leave Joe Cole and Alexei Smertin in the stands. Why? They should be there to give me more options. Players on the bench think they can jump onto the pitch. It is different in the stands."

Apparently, this is not quite the case; the deal to bring Joaquín to Stamford Bridge seems to be very close to being signed. So close that there is already an agreement between Chelsea, Betis and the player himself. So close that there will be an announcement next week.

Slash/ED

He's not in the same class as Duff or Robben imo though he is a good player I think if he did sign he wouldn't get his game regularly, it'd make no sense to break up the best attack in the league. What they need more is a central mid fielder to replace Tiago who is good but not at the same level as the rest of the mid field, and Gerrards been making noises about leaving Liverpool...

Big Ears

The thing is Joaquin is naturally right sided unlike Duff and Robben and his favorite thing to do is get in crosses , it would definetly give them more options . The amount of assists Joaquin would give a player like Drogba is unreal .

Also Duff and Robben can't play every game so another winger (whos better than Cole , and Cole isnt really a winger anyway) is a neccesity for big games

Slash/ED

The amount of assists Robben and Duff are giving is unreal. They don't need a natural right sided player, they're not playing with out and out wingers now, or at least the wingers they are useing are being used more centraslly, and to put one in would unbalance the side. It's needless when they already have an unreal attack.

Big Ears

Slash/ED wrote:

The amount of assists Robben and Duff are giving is unreal. They don't need a natural right sided player, they're not playing with out and out wingers now, or at least the wingers they are useing are being used more centraslly, and to put one in would unbalance the side. It's needless when they already have an unreal attack.

I agree but as I said those two can't play every game and Chelsea will probably play in excess of 60 competitive games this year , surely someone better than Cole is needed for those 20-25 games one of those two can't play .(although I don't think Joaquin would like being a third choice winger)

Slash/ED

Big Ears wrote:

I agree but as I said those two can't play every game and Chelsea will probably play in excess of 60 competitive games this year , surely someone better than Cole is needed for those 20-25 games one of those two can't play .(although I don't think Joaquin would like being a third choice winger)

Well that's the problem, obviously he's lightyears ahead of the utterly inept Joe Cole but he's no Duff or Robben, if he's prepared to be a squad player than he'd be an excellent signing for Chelsea but if they have to accomodate him in the first team and upset the best attack in the EPL atm it can only be bad for them. It's like when Real sold Makelele to accomodate Beckham, completley ruined the shape of their mid field and destroyed their team, they've been woeful ever since.

Big Ears

Actually Makelele was sold because he wanted to be paid the same as the Galacticos , and Madrid underated him , beleiving he was not worthy of such a slalary .(no footballer is , but he should get paid more than Carlos or Beckham) .

Cambiasso was another good holding midfielder who was underated by Madrid and gotten rid of .

Slash/ED

Well the end result was Makelele out and Beckham in and Real have been a shambles ever since. If Joaquin comes to Chelsea and has to start, it'll have a similar effect.

Big Ears

Slash/ED wrote:

Well the end result was Makelele out and Beckham in and Real have been a shambles ever since. If Joaquin comes to Chelsea and has to start, it'll have a similar effect.

I would have to disagree , getting rid of Makelele ment playing a right sided midfielder in his position for Real while replacing Robben or Duff with Joaquin is replacing one of the best wingers in the world with another who may not be quite as good . Chelsea would still be strong enough in attack with :

---

Drogba

---

Duff/Robben

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Joaquin

Slash/ED

You don't know though, he'll take a while to settle in the league for a start and he's not nearly as good as Robben and Duff. If you have to leave out one of those to accomodate Joaquin you're spending money to weaken the team and it slightly changes what has been a flawless formation for Chelsea having a nautral right footer who's a touchline hugger. It makes no sense unless he's coming to be a squad player.

Big Ears

I think your underating Joaquin , he is one of the best wingers in the world and since he is right footed has the abilty to be more effective than Duff or Robben when out on that right hand side .

Slash/ED

I've seen alot of him, and he has great pace and can ghost by players but he's a headless chicken, so isn't nearly as effective as he could be. Duff and Robbens great strenght is their ability to make the right decisions, that's why they get so many assists, Joaquin falls down in that area for me.

And Duff and Robben when on the right hand side can cut in and score goals, and have done. They're very effective out there, look at their two goals on saturday, and a very attack minded full back like Chelsea have means they get plenty of width anyway

Big Ears

Slash/ED wrote:

I've seen alot of him, and he has great pace and can ghost by players but he's a headless chicken, so isn't nearly as effective as he could be. Duff and Robbens great strenght is their ability to make the right decisions, that's why they get so many assists, Joaquin falls down in that area for me.

And Duff and Robben when on the right hand side can cut in and score goals, and have done. They're very effective out there, look at their two goals on saturday, and a very attack minded full back like Chelsea have means they get plenty of width anyway

If I had the choice of which players of the 3 to play I would go with Duff and Robben however , I do not beleive it would have this effect if Joaquin plays : Real have been a shambles ever since. If Joaquin comes to Chelsea and has to start, it'll have a similar effect.Chelsea would not turn into a shambles with Joaquin playing instead of one of the other players , they would be weakened slightly but the effect would not be as devastating as what happened to Madrid after Makelele left .

Slash/ED

Well yes, that was too strong it wont have an effect nearly as dramatic as that but it will weaken their attack somewhat imo, of course he could just come in as a squad player and in that case it's an excellent signing.

Big Ears

Slash/ED wrote:

Well yes, that was too strong it wont have an effect nearly as dramatic as that but it will weaken their attack somewhat imo, of course he could just come in as a squad player and in that case it's an excellent signing.

all that posting and I find out we just agree with each other on the subject after all . [me yawns] , thats enough football discussion for one night .

Gileadi

i think that chelsea should start to unload some of the non performers that they have in the squad,the squad itself is man for man quite good but if mourinio is planning on building a squad in depth that he can interchange the whole squad and keep the same system <eg arsenal> theres a few people that would have to leave

also this could make it easier for new players to join the club if they felt they had a good chance of playing once in a while

personally id go with selling joe cole-never rated him ,
gerami-solid but wouldnt dispace smertin/makele in defence or lampard in attack, possibly parker for the same reasons,huth-didnt play well last season and was only used as a 3rd central defender this season after chelski got a lead

another forward would also be preferable to another winger,atm they only have 3 and were forced into playing duff and robben together with drogbas injury and kezmans inability to hit a barn door