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Champions League Draw
Comments
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You can't compare them. A team is supposed to aim to win their group and win every match. Fergie thought he was being clever sending a second string to Turkey and it looks like it has cost him dearly.PHB wrote:thats a bit silly logic so it is.
If Chelsea had come second they'd be playing Inter so therefore they should have come second?
easy to say with hindsight
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PHB wrote:
Seems to make little sense to me considering a united team, missing keano beat arsenal?
I'm somewhat confused, or are you?
Indeed some people get so confused when it come to United they find it hard to see past their ABU blinkers and post tripe. I wonder why he didn't put Liverpool on the list?
mr_angry wrote:Well, there is the money... :rolleyes:
Anyway, its nearly impossible to predict at the moment. The games are months away, and each team's form could have drastically changed by then. Who knows what might happen.
I have no doubt Fergie knew what the consequences of fielding a weakened team would be. I assume most of the money from the champions league is from gate receipts in the leaguse stages even if they do go out now United are only losing a couple of games.
I agree with you that its impossible to predict, I have been around long enough to realise that anything can happen to swing a game and to write off any teams chances at that level is plain stupidity .0 -
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PHB wrote:thats a bit silly logic so it is.
If Chelsea had come second they'd be playing Inter so therefore they should have come second?
easy to say with hindsight
Its not silly logic, had United won the group they would have drawn either, Porto, Weder Bremen, PSV, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, or Barcelona. Coming second they could have drawn AC Milan, Juventus, Inter, Leverkusen or Monaco.
I reckon that United could have very easily put out 5 of the 6 teams in the first category. I think they could only put out 2 of the 5 teams in the second category easily. Therefore by coming first, on average and not only in hindsight, they would have got an easier draw. Would you not agree with that?0 -
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Ac Milan is going to be an absolute bitch of a match, but I've no doubt in my belief that we are going to win it, then again I'm a utd fan so thats what i'm meant to do.
Milan are a fantastic team, and were a fantastic team last year and the year before and the year before.
They are consistantly very very good.
However they went out last year to a team that had a lot more heart than them, and United are a team with a lot of heart.
Tactically they are equals, perhaps you might say they are a better squad skillfully, something which I wouldn't agree with.
None the less, this is football, if United are thee underdogs which I think we are, I'm happy
You say that United havn't beaten any of the big teams in the past, and its a misconception that we can beat anyone on our day.
Yet i'm sure you'd agree that chelsea could beat anyone on their day, yet they havn't beaten any big teams in the past.
Its a hell of a lot about form going into the match, and if we take on arsenal and win, then take the 5th round, then are onto milan, if we go in with two victories, I think we'll win
FFS why is it two months away!!!!0 -
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I think it is hilarious the way you say that you cant dismiss Uniteds chances because the game isnt until February and "a lot can happen before then". Yet "Liverpool will struggle", because "on form this season Liverpool are probably the weakest of all the teams".kida wrote:The matches are not going to be played until February. A lot can happen before then. Last year would anyone at this time have predicted the turnaround in Barcelona. They were muck at this time last year. Whos to know who could be injured when the matches happen.
I personally think United will go through if Ruud is back by then. They seem to be up for it this year. There has been a lot of sh!te written here about United. They are capable of raising their game and I would much prefer to play a good team than minnows. It all depends on whether Utd can get a win in the first leg. We need for Milan to have to attack us as this is when they are vulnerable. They don't have a lot of pace at the back. Stam,Maldini and Costacurts if he plays.
Arsenal will struggle against Munich, Munich are capable of shutting them out in both legs. They won't give Arsenal the time and space they need in Europe.
Chelsea Barca is too hard to call and could well go down to a mistake or a dodgy refereeing decision.
Liverpool will struggle, purely for the fact that Gerrard is out for the first leg and they won't win without him. The Germans will be delighted with the draw as on form this season Liverpool are probably the weakest of all the teams to get through and now they have their best player missing for the 1st leg(If Uefa had balls it would be for more than that)
Whos to say what will happen before February?
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You see you seem to be saying that Man Utd can't raise there game, like most United fans think they can.
You back this up by sayingAs regards the CL this is a bit of a misconception. United have not beaten one of Europes top tier for three years. And the only "big" teams that they have beaten in the CL since they won it are Deportivo (who are notoriously inconsistent in this competition) and Juventus.
You said they havn't beaten any big teams in the last 3 years.
Yet when I draw a comparision with Chelsea you sayI dont understand the relevance of Chelsea to whether United will win.
Besides this is a totally different Chelsea, and they can beat anyone, even off their day. They beat Italian opposition, in Lazio, last year home and away. And also beat Arsenal who I would consider to be one of Europes top tier. They won more knockout ties last season than United have since they won the trophy, and thats why I think they will go through against one of the big sides and United wont.
and you say that Chelsea beat
Lazio
Arsenal
you also say they have won more knockout ties since united last won the trophy,
thus they have the ability to go through.
First off, United have beaten Arsenal the last 3 times they played them.
You say they have won more knockout ties than United have since 1999, which is just a total lie
Last year they got to the semis, and united got knocked out against Porto.
Chelsea got into their group vs. Lazio Sparta and Besiktas, and you claim that their big win was against Lazio, who funnily enough came last in the group.
They beat Stuttgart, big deal
They then beat Arsenal, good for them, although the amount of people who claim they were lucky, and then they lost to Monaco, who eventually lost to Porto.
So last year their big matches they won were
Arsenal
The year before that Man Utd lost to Real Madrid in the quarters
The year before that we lost to Leverkusan in the semis on away goal
And chelsea won all these knockout ties where exactly? They definally havn't done that
Realistically you think Chelsea are better than Man Utd cause well, you think they are better.
You think Chelsea can raise there game because, well you think chelsea can raise their game, I don't disagree, but its not because of past preformances.
You have the same logic as me, you think chelsea can do it, I think Man utd can do it, don't go spouting off babble in an attempt to somehow prove it, cause you can't.
All you've shown is that Chelsea are good cause they beat Arsenal, so did United, so why can't they do it? Cause you don't like em, thats why Thats fine, but don't hide, its ok not to like football teams.
I hate Man City, Leeds, Arsenal and Liverpool, i hope they all lose, but hey, at least i'm honest 0 -
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brillaint postPHB wrote:You see you seem to be saying that Man Utd can't raise there game, like most United fans think they can.
You back this up by saying
You said they havn't beaten any big teams in the last 3 years.
Yet when I draw a comparision with Chelsea you say
and you say that Chelsea beat
Lazio
Arsenal
you also say they have won more knockout ties since united last won the trophy,
thus they have the ability to go through.
First off, United have beaten Arsenal the last 3 times they played them.
You say they have won more knockout ties than United have since 1999, which is just a total lie
Last year they got to the semis, and united got knocked out against Porto.
Chelsea got into their group vs. Lazio Sparta and Besiktas, and you claim that their big win was against Lazio, who funnily enough came last in the group.
They beat Stuttgart, big deal
They then beat Arsenal, good for them, although the amount of people who claim they were lucky, and then they lost to Monaco, who eventually lost to Porto.
So last year their big matches they won were
Arsenal
The year before that Man Utd lost to Real Madrid in the quarters
The year before that we lost to Leverkusan in the semis on away goal
And chelsea won all these knockout ties where exactly? They definally havn't done that
Realistically you think Chelsea are better than Man Utd cause well, you think they are better.
You think Chelsea can raise there game because, well you think chelsea can raise their game, I don't disagree, but its not because of past preformances.
You have the same logic as me, you think chelsea can do it, I think Man utd can do it, don't go spouting off babble in an attempt to somehow prove it, cause you can't.
All you've shown is that Chelsea are good cause they beat Arsenal, so did United, so why can't they do it? Cause you don't like em, thats why Thats fine, but don't hide, its ok not to like football teams.
I hate Man City, Leeds, Arsenal and Liverpool, i hope they all lose, but hey, at least i'm honest0 -
No I didnt say that. Of course United can raise their game. I dont deny that. I said its a misconception that they "always raise their game for the big matches". That is incorrect. Yes they do sometimes, but is not a given that they will. Like I said, they have not beaten a "top tier" European teams in the last 3 years. And have only beaten two in the last six years. Thus I think it is safe to conclude, that they dont ALWAYS raise their game for the big matches, and in fact have been done so less often than not.PHB wrote:You see you seem to be saying that Man Utd can't raise there game, like most United fans think they can.
You back this up by saying
But its totally different with Chelsea. For a start Chelsea have not been in the CL every year like United, so the chances are they wouldnt have played as many big teams. And besides when considering Chelsea you must consider them post-Abramovich because they are a totally different side since then. They got to the semis last year, and are looking very strong this year, thats why I think they have the ability to go through, also I would rate Milan higher than Barcelona.PHB wrote:You said they havn't beaten any big teams in the last 3 years.
Yet when I draw a comparision with Chelsea you say
and you say that Chelsea beat
Lazio
Arsenal
you also say they have won more knockout ties since united last won the trophy,
thus they have the ability to go through.
Yes, but not in the CL which Im talking about.PHB wrote:First off, United have beaten Arsenal the last 3 times they played them.
Before you go start accusing me of anything, do the maths yourself. I can lend you an abacus if you want.PHB wrote:You say they have won more knockout ties than United have since 1999, which is just a total lie
www.uefa.com
Chelsea won two knockout ties last year alone. United have only progressed beyond the quarters once since they won it. When they went out in the semis to Leverkusen.
Any Italian side that has qualifed for the CL would be classed as a "big team" in my book. Same goes for Spanish and English sides. The beat them 4-0 in Rome. Thats a big win by any strecth of the imagination. And funnily enough had they beaten Sparta in their last game they would have gone through so despite coming last they were as poor as you are trying to make them out to be.PHB wrote:Chelsea got into their group vs. Lazio Sparta and Besiktas, and you claim that their big win was against Lazio, who funnily enough came last in the group.
Agreed, Stuggart are hardly European superpowers, but they managed to beat a few alright teamsPHB wrote:They beat Stuttgart, big deal
And Lazio, and Stuggart in the knockout stages (would you not consider all knockout games at that stage to be "big games"???)PHB wrote:So last year their big matches they won were
Arsenal
See above post, the abacus is still available.PHB wrote:The year before that Man Utd lost to Real Madrid in the quarters
The year before that we lost to Leverkusan in the semis on away goal
And chelsea won all these knockout ties where exactly? They definally havn't done that
As I said, its difficult to measure Chelseas past performances because you have to look at the post-Abrahmovic period. Would you not agree with that?PHB wrote:Realistically you think Chelsea are better than Man Utd cause well, you think they are better. You think Chelsea can raise there game because, well you think chelsea can raise their game, I don't disagree, but its not because of past preformances.
How could I prove it? I gave my opinion and used FACTS to indicate how I came to this opinion. You on the other hand decided to make stuff up and call my FACTS "lies". So Im afraid we are not using the same logic.PHB wrote:You have the same logic as me, you think chelsea can do it, I think Man utd can do it, don't go spouting off babble in an attempt to somehow prove it, cause you can't.
No, you be surprised to find out it has nothing to do with being able to beat Arsenal, or Chelsea for that matter, or my opinion on United. I dont think United will do it because I think Milan are a stronger side in a lot of crucial areas required to win CL football. I think Chelsea will do it because they have a gluttonous wealth of talent, and I think that Barcelona are overrated because they are a very flashy side. They are not as solid as Chelsea (or Milan for that matter).PHB wrote:All you've shown is that Chelsea are good cause they beat Arsenal, so did United, so why can't they do it? Cause you don't like em, thats why
Im not hiding, if United were playing Barcelona and Chelsea were playing Milan I would probably tip United to go through and Chelsea to have a tougher game. But feel free to be paranoid that Im just out to get United.PHB wrote:Thats fine, but don't hide, its ok not to like football teams.
I hate Man City, Leeds, Arsenal and Liverpool, i hope they all lose, but hey, at least i'm honest
/edit
And for the third time
And you never answered my question on whether you would agree that by coming first on average you get an easier draw?0 -
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Milan didn't even get a shot on target, never mind win.Jivin Turkey wrote:Milan still managed to beat Celtic while sending out a weakened team.
Both teams have played Celtic twice and if I had the choice to play Milan or Barca in the last 16 I'd take Milan in a shot.0 -
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