Champions League Draw

johnor

Id love it if it ended up with two so called "minnows" of the champions league in the final again, there is no reason why it couldnt happen which proves Muppet's point that at this level any team can beat any other team. Form comes into it obviously and the games arent played till Febuary? and March? who knows what teams will be like then with players on the move and players out due to injury. maybe this topic should be left on ice till Late january or something....see who is still going strong then.

In any event Man u are going to win this year

A Dub in Glasgo

johnor wrote:

In any event Man u are going to win this year

Yep a minnow then

johnor

Were you at the game on saturday Dub in Glasgo? I went over...terrible game altogether...McGeady was the highlight for me....showed alot

A Dub in Glasgo

I was and it was freezing, the atmosphere was dire and my wife wanted to go Xmas shopping. McGeady was the highlight, he is coming on nicely. He should be better once MON plays him in the right position!

How Celtic were ever beaten by those 2 minnow teams from Spain and Italy is beyond me

Makaveli

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I was asked to name sides that I thought were in with a chance of winning the competition. Chelsea reached the semis last year.

Do you not think they have bought better players since then?

Do you not think they have sold some of their worse players since then?

Do you think Mourinho is a better manager than Ranieri?

We both know the answers to all of those questions. Surely then they would be likely to go just as far if not further than last year?

Yet they are not over-rated and Barcelona are?
Chelsea lead the Premiership, Barca lead La Liga. Two teams on form. Chelsea made it to the semis, they didn't win it though.
In the knockout stages they drew Stuttgart, Arsenal and Monaco. They scraped by Stuttgart. I mean they weren't that good in the competition last season.
But it's a different team and manager now, who is to say they will better last season? Barcelona are a much sterner test than Stuttgart

Do you not think Barcelona have bought better players? Gotten rid of the weaker ones?

Jivin Turkey

Makaveli wrote:

Yet they are not over-rated and Barcelona are?
Chelsea lead the Premiership, Barca lead La Liga. Two teams on form. Chelsea made it to the semis, they didn't win it though.
In the knockout stages they drew Stuttgart, Arsenal and Monaco. They scraped by Stuttgart. I mean they weren't that good in the competition last season.
But it's a different team and manager now, who is to say they will better last season? Barcelona are a much sterner test than Stuttgart

Do you not think Barcelona have bought better players? Gotten rid of the weaker ones?

Barcelona have bought good players. But they have also lost a few good ones too. They are doing very well in Spain, but even the hardest of fans will say that their competition is underperforming due to managerial changes. Im not saying they are crap, I just dont think they are or deserve to be labelled the best side in Europe.

Chelsea arent favourites for the CL, they are 4th I think. Thats a fair reflection, so hence I would not say they are overrated.

Gangsta

PHB wrote:

First off, United have beaten Arsenal the last 3 times they played them.

Last few games:
Arsenal 1 - 1 Man Utd (highbury, april or sumtin) - A lucky draw, they were very poor.

Man Utd 1 - 0 Arsenal (Fa Cup semi final) - well played, shut out arsenal

Man Utd 1 - 3 Arsenal (Community Shield) - Arsenal deserved it but, not a too important game.

Man Utd 2 - 0 Arsenal (EPL) - Rooney dive, thats all i'll say.

Sherifu

Liverpool & Leverkusen rematch.
Should be good after the 4-3 match last time.
Liverpool may not be pretty lately but they are exciting.

The Muppet

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Its all well and good playing the devils advocate, but the same could be said about any game. Should we stop discussing all matches then?

Personally I think this is a very good and mature discussion.

Are we not discussing the Champions league? I have made it clear in all my posts in this thread that I am talking about thr CL. but because you seem to be missing the point I,'ll say it again especially for you.

There is so little between the teams at this level that it is impossible to predict any result accurately . So please stop constantly repeating yourself to convince everyone that you predictions are accurate. As you have not suceeded after six pages it is unlikely to happen and for me it got boring a couple of pages ago.

Personally I think its a reasonably civilised but rather pointless discussion that has banged on for way too long for the reasons I already expressed.

dirkey_wynne

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Barcelona have bought good players. But they have also lost a few good ones too. They are doing very well in Spain, but even the hardest of fans will say that their competition is underperforming due to managerial changes. Im not saying they are crap, I just dont think they are or deserve to be labelled the best side in Europe.

Chelsea arent favourites for the CL, they are 4th I think. Thats a fair reflection, so hence I would not say they are overrated.

Champions League 2004/05
[.code]
Selection Prices Selection Prices
Barcelona 6 - 1 Lyon 18 - 1

Arsenal 7 - 1 Bayern Munich 20 - 1

Chelsea 7 - 1 Liverpool 20 - 1

AC Milan 15 - 2 Monaco 22 - 1

Juventus 8 - 1 Werder Bremen 25 - 1

Man United 9 - 1 B Leverkusen 28 - 1

Real Madrid 10 - 1 Porto 33 - 1

Inter Milan 10 - 1 PSV Eindhoven 40 - 1
[./code]

Jivin, are you of the opinion the bookies have it wrong? Or that they get it wrong regularly? Because presumably you'll be off out to get some money on whoever you believe will win it! They nearly always get it right - how come noone is talking about Arsenal as being overrated? They're up as 2nd fave's yet haven't EVER made it to the semis.

And by the way, Utd are going to put Milan out. (Hey, noone else is giving us a chance so if us Utd fans don't stand up who will eh?!!)

The Muppet

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Champions League 2004/05
[.code]


And by the way, Utd are going to put Milan out. (Hey, noone else is giving us a chance so if us Utd fans don't stand up who will eh?!!)

We wouldn't want it any other way. Keep writing United off, it will make the after match debate so much more enjoyable if we progress.:-)

BolBill

I'm sooo pissed off I missed out on that debate Jivin Turkey !!!!! Still good points by all.

cournioni

Gangsta wrote:

Last few games:
Arsenal 1 - 1 Man Utd (highbury, april or sumtin) - A lucky draw, they were very poor.

Man Utd 1 - 0 Arsenal (Fa Cup semi final) - well played, shut out arsenal

Man Utd 1 - 3 Arsenal (Community Shield) - Arsenal deserved it but, not a too important game.

Man Utd 2 - 0 Arsenal (EPL) - Rooney dive, thats all i'll say.

Man Utd 1 - 0 Arsenal (Carling Cup) - Alright it was their second teams but it still counts as a Senior team result.

And as for the Rooney dive. How about, Ronaldo's penalty? Toure's dive? Bergkamp's elbow? Edu's knee high lunge on Scholes? Henry trying to kick Heinze in the head? That is all I'll say... :rolleyes:

Don't get me started by trying to justify Arsenal losing that game.

dirkey_wynne

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Man Utd 1 - 0 Arsenal (Carling Cup) - Alright it was their second teams but it still counts as a Senior team result.

And as for the Rooney dive. How about, Ronaldo's penalty? Toure's dive? Bergkamp's elbow? Edu's knee high lunge on Scholes? Henry trying to kick Heinze in the head? That is all I'll say... :rolleyes:

Don't get me started by trying to justify Arsenal losing that game.

Don't go there Porn!! You know what'll happen...debate will start again, thread will be closed! I think pretty much everyone has had their say on that one! Let's stick with the topic!

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

Are we not discussing the Champions league? I have made it clear in all my posts in this thread that I am talking about thr CL. but because you seem to be missing the point I,'ll say it again especially for you.

There is so little between the teams at this level that it is impossible to predict any result accurately . So please stop constantly repeating yourself to convince everyone that you predictions are accurate. As you have not suceeded after six pages it is unlikely to happen and for me it got boring a couple of pages ago.

Personally I think its a reasonably civilised but rather pointless discussion that has banged on for way too long for the reasons I already expressed.

If you feel this thread is boring and pointless then there is no need for you to get involved. We could apply the logic to sit on the fence and claim "there is nothing between the teams at this level" for so many football matches, should we stop discussing matches that we deem too close to call? Hardly, Id say the activity on the board would crash.

Im sorry for constantly repeating myself, but the people Im debating with keep on trying to counter what Ive said. But personally (and honestly), I have yet to read something that has made me think "Crap, thats a very good counter to my argument", yet I feel that I have always backed up any claim I have said with good points, and not just biased opinions, hence the debate continues.

There seems to be an ethos on these boards that if a thread goes over four or five pages it is pointless and childish. Personally I think this has been one of the best discussions on these boards is a good while. So Ill keep on viewing it, if you dont want to, you dont have to.

cournioni

Listen lads. No one knows what will happen in ANY of the games. We all seen what happened last year. Deportivo beating Milan 4-0, Porto and Monaco getting to the final.

No one knows. Now please stop having this arguement, it is pointless.

Jivin Turkey

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Jivin, are you of the opinion the bookies have it wrong? Or that they get it wrong regularly? Because presumably you'll be off out to get some money on whoever you believe will win it! They nearly always get it right - how come noone is talking about Arsenal as being overrated? They're up as 2nd fave's yet haven't EVER made it to the semis.

Why couldnt the bookies get it wrong, Im sure there are teams on that list who you think should be higher/lower, no?

Ive got money on Juventus, backed them from the start at 14/1 and Im very happy with that. Barcelona are so low not entirely because Paddypower think they will win, but because there has been a large amount of bets on them from punters hence the fall in the odds. Proving my point that a lot of people rate them as the best in Europe.

I dont think Arsenal should be second favourites, but it is kind of different because they are playing a supposed weaker team in the next round (Bayern 20/1) hence they are expected to go through easier. But to answer your question, I do think they are over-rated. Just like you said, they have never got past the quarters.

eirebhoy

Arsenal are not 2nd favourites, they're 4th favourites. Chelsea, Milan and Barca are the top 3 with most bookies.
http://odds-comparison.bestbetting.com/Default.aspx?betting=Champs+League+Winner+2004%2f05&eventtype=0

dirkey_wynne

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Why couldnt the bookies get it wrong, Im sure there are teams on that list who you think should be higher/lower, no?

Ive got money on Juventus, backed them from the start at 14/1 and Im very happy with that. Barcelona are so low not entirely because Paddypower think they will win, but because there has been a large amount of bets on them from punters hence the fall in the odds. Proving my point that a lot of people rate them as the best in Europe.

I dont think Arsenal should be second favourites, but it is kind of different because they are playing a supposed weaker team in the next round (Bayern 20/1) hence they are expected to go through easier. But to answer your question, I do think they are over-rated. Just like you said, they have never got past the quarters.

That's a pretty good bet. They're savagely good defensively, though I have to say I wonder about them going forward in the knockout stages. Haven't scored more than 1 in any group game this year. Be interesting to see them play Barca - (supposedly) irresisitible attacking force against the immovable object.

As a matter of interest Jivin, what are your favourites for the title? Who exactly do you rate higher than Barca, and in what order?

Jivin Turkey

dirkey_wynne wrote:

As a matter of interest Jivin, what are your favourites for the title? Who exactly do you rate higher than Barca, and in what order?

Well seeing as I have money on Juve maybe Im a bit biased, but I suppose it would go Juve, Milan, Chelsea, Barcelona. If I didnt have Juve first, Id defo have them second.

jank

And as for the Rooney dive. How about, Ronaldo's penalty? Toure's dive? Bergkamp's elbow? Edu's knee high lunge on Scholes? Henry trying to kick Heinze in the head? That is all I'll say..

Just get over it please

The Muppet

Jivin Turkey wrote:

If you feel this thread is boring and pointless then there is no need for you to get involved. We could apply the logic to sit on the fence and claim "there is nothing between the teams at this level" for so many football matches, should we stop discussing matches that we deem too close to call? Hardly, Id say the activity on the board would crash.

Im sorry for constantly repeating myself, but the people Im debating with keep on trying to counter what Ive said. But personally (and honestly), I have yet to read something that has made me think "Crap, thats a very good counter to my argument", yet I feel that I have always backed up any claim I have said with good points, and not just biased opinions, hence the debate continues.

There seems to be an ethos on these boards that if a thread goes over four or five pages it is pointless and childish. Personally I think this has been one of the best discussions on these boards is a good while. So Ill keep on viewing it, if you dont want to, you dont have to.

I,ll choose what threads I read and reply to if it,s ok with you.

Usually we wait until after the match to discuss it in such detail. The matches have not even been played yet and we have pages of pure speculation and conjecture being posted as if the results are a forgone conclusion. You may call that mature debate but to me it reminds me of kids in a schoolyard who believe the media hype over the reality of the situation. I have no problem reading threads of any length once its not the same point being made over and over again as is the case here.

I.ll leave it at that until the matches are played when they can be discussed properly.

dirkey_wynne

The Muppet wrote:

I,ll choose what threads I read and reply to if it,s ok with you.

Usually we wait until after the match to discuss it in such detail. The matches have not even been played yet and we have pages of pure speculation and conjecture being posted as if the results are a forgone conclusion. You may call that mature debate but to me it reminds me of kids in a schoolyard who believe the media hype over the reality of the situation. I have no problem reading threads of any length once its not the same point being made over and over again as is the case here.

I.ll leave it at that until the matches are played when they can be discussed properly.

It seems to me you're contradicting yourself here Muppet? My apologies if I'm wrong, just that you say you'll choose which threads you read and reply to. Fair enough. You then go on to say how you have no problem reading threads of any length once it's not the same point being made over and over again - again, fair enough, if you don't want to read posts like this, your prerogative as you stated with your first point. But then you say that this is the case here. So surely, by your own words, you'd choose not to read this one, as it's going over and over the same points??

uberwolf

dirkey_wynne wrote:

It seems to me you're contradicting yourself here Muppet? My apologies if I'm wrong, just that you say you'll choose which threads you read and reply to. Fair enough. You then go on to say how you have no problem reading threads of any length once it's not the same point being made over and over again - again, fair enough, if you don't want to read posts like this, your prerogative as you stated with your first point. But then you say that this is the case here. So surely, by your own words, you'd choose not to read this one, as it's going over and over the same points??

I'm not sure, I did read this twice though. Did you actually have anything to contribute there? you read if you wanna, you don't if you don't wanna. jeesh you people.

Seaneh

kida wrote:

I personally think United will go through if Ruud is back by then. They seem to be up for it this year. There has been a lot of sh!te written here about United. They are capable of raising their game and I would much prefer to play a good team than minnows. It all depends on whether Utd can get a win in the first leg. We need for Milan to have to attack us as this is when they are vulnerable. They don't have a lot of pace at the back. Stam,Maldini and Costacurts if he plays.

Milans Starting defence is as follows.

Cafu Maldini Nesta Kaladze


They are hardly stuck for pace at the back now are they?

smemon

i cant wait until february, all this drivel about milan/manu is laughable. im guilty myself of building up and chopping down sides before matches but this is just ridiculous, theres over 2 months before a ball is kicked.

once the draw was announced, you'd expect predictions etc but to carry on with it each day is pointless. it seems when arsenal, liverpool & chelsea are up against someone they always have a chance and you never know, could go all the way. when utd are fancied by someone to beat milan and have a go at the cup immediately they are bombarded with anti-utd missiles and told to get their head checked.

im gonna be a right prat here and leave you's with the question, who was the last english side to lift the european cup?

Jivin Turkey

smemon wrote:

it seems when arsenal, liverpool & chelsea are up against someone they always have a chance and you never know, could go all the way. when utd are fancied by someone to beat milan and have a go at the cup immediately they are bombarded with anti-utd missiles and told to get their head checked.

Eh wrong, Ive tipped Chelsea to beat Barca only to be shot down. Ive tipped Liverpool (who I support) to go through, but admitted that it would hardly be a shock if they went out. And I havnt seen anyone really talking up Arsenals chances.

United have the toughest draw, people are saying that they are going to have it tough and probably go out. United fans are saying that they are DEFINATELY going through. I wouldnt be that shocked if they did, but Id be betting on Milan. It is some of the United fans that are again and again are blind to the facts presented to them, its not drivel. Thats why this has gone on so long.

smemon wrote:

im gonna be a right prat here and leave you's with the question, who was the last english side to lift the european cup?

I shouldnt even reply, but Ill be sure to use the same logic when we discuss where the premiership title is going to end :rolleyes:

Makaveli

You didn't get shot down for saying Chelsea would beat Barca, you got arguements against you for saying Barcelona are over-rated.

jank

im gonna be a right prat here and leave you's with the question, who was the last english side to lift the european cup?

You know i do respect some man utd fans out there but when it comes to you well .....i dont know, i just feel you give many a bad name to be honest.

LegacyUser

jank wrote:

You know i do respect some man utd fans out there but when it comes to you well .....i dont know, i just feel you give many a bad name to be honest.

Oh come on. I remember reading some of the crap you used to post. It is just "ironic" to say the least.

dirkey_wynne

uberwolf wrote:

I'm not sure, I did read this twice though. Did you actually have anything to contribute there? you read if you wanna, you don't if you don't wanna. jeesh you people.

Erm, were you referring to me with this, or to The Muppet? Because I never said anything about not wanting to read the post etc...

dirkey_wynne

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Eh wrong, Ive tipped Chelsea to beat Barca only to be shot down. Ive tipped Liverpool (who I support) to go through, but admitted that it would hardly be a shock if they went out. And I havnt seen anyone really talking up Arsenals chances.

United have the toughest draw, people are saying that they are going to have it tough and probably go out. United fans are saying that they are DEFINATELY going through. I wouldnt be that shocked if they did, but Id be betting on Milan. It is some of the United fans that are again and again are blind to the facts presented to them, its not drivel. Thats why this has gone on so long.

Em, the facts? Sorry to point out Turkey, but there aren't any facts. It's all opinion and hearsay. What facts? Not a ball kicked, not a goal scored. If we're knocked out, then it becomes fact.

And if you look back up through the thread, us Utd fans are backing our team (that's what you do "support".) but if you look at other people's predicitions, ie the ones who list each game, and who they think will win, Utd very rarely are put down as the winning side in any of these predictions. So is it we who are saying we're definitely going through? I don't think so.

Jivin Turkey

dirkey_wynne wrote:

Em, the facts? Sorry to point out Turkey, but there aren't any facts. It's all opinion and hearsay. What facts? Not a ball kicked, not a goal scored. If we're knocked out, then it becomes fact.

Im using facts like they have only won one single knockout tie since they lifted the trophy (over five years ago) as a counter to the argument (and a pure piece of opinion and hearsay) that "they always lift their game for the big matches".

dirkey_wynne wrote:

And if you look back up through the thread, us Utd fans are backing our team (that's what you do "support".) but if you look at other people's predicitions, ie the ones who list each game, and who they think will win, Utd very rarely are put down as the winning side in any of these predictions. So is it we who are saying we're definitely going through? I don't think so.

Im confused here. Surely you do think so if you are the only people saying so?

Spalk0

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Im using facts like they have only won one single knockout tie since they lifted the trophy (over five years ago) as a counter to the argument (and a pure piece of opinion and hearsay) that "they always lift their game for the big matches".

All the more reason to change those facts ay!?......Im not hugely confident for the mailan game!Hell im not confident at all but i still think we can win it!And it certainly aint a foregone conclusion that Milan will win!

BolBill

The facts of the matter are that Man U won't get through against Milan because:
(a) Good time Rio will be caught ball watching (again, see Stuttgart (hardly World beaters) last year)
(b) Shrek will be in Granny re hab by then and won't be able to play, not that he has done anything since his debut.
(c) Shevchenko will run riot.
(d) Van Nistelroy should not be a lone striker, this must change.

Jivin Turkey

Trigger! wrote:

All the more reason to change those facts ay!?......Im not hugely confident for the mailan game!Hell im not confident at all but i still think we can win it!And it certainly aint a foregone conclusion that Milan will win!

Change the facts? What, are you calling me a liar? Check it yourself. They have only gotten past the quarters once since they won it (2002), and didnt get to the quarters last year.

I know its not a forgone conclusion, and I said that on page 1. If United win I will not begrudge them, because if they win over two legs they will probably deserve it.

Spalk0

BolBill wrote:

The facts of the matter are that Man U won't get through against Milan because:
(a) Good time Rio will be caught ball watching (again, see Stuttgart (hardly World beaters) last year)
(b) Shrek will be in Granny re hab by then and won't be able to play, not that he has done anything since his debut.
(c) Shevchenko will run riot.
(d) Van Nistelroy should not be a lone striker, this must change.

Oh you better eat your words chief if your wrong!

Spalk0

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Change the facts? What, are you calling me a liar? Check it yourself. They have only gotten past the quarters once since they won it (2002), and didnt get to the quarters last year.

I know its not a forgone conclusion, and I said that on page 1. If United win I will not begrudge them, because if they win over two legs they will probably deserve it.

No im not calling you a liar!But fortunes have to change sometimes!wouldnt you agree!?

Going on that case, Arsenil are doomed to Champions league failure for ever!

BolBill

Trigger! wrote:

Oh you better eat your words chief if your wrong!

Will do so Trig

cournioni

BolBill wrote:

The facts of the matter are that Man U won't get through against Milan because:
(a) Good time Rio will be caught ball watching (again, see Stuttgart (hardly World beaters) last year)
(b) Shrek will be in Granny re hab by then and won't be able to play, not that he has done anything since his debut.
(c) Shevchenko will run riot.
(d) Van Nistelroy should not be a lone striker, this must change.

Facts of the matter are that Man United will get through against Milan because:
a) Italian teams always seem to struggle against Man Utd. (see Juventus two years ago, when Juve got to the final and also 1999).
b) Van Nistelrooy is banging goals in for fun in the Champions League. He will get a few against Milan.
c) Man Utd have scored 12 goals in three home matches in the CL.
d) Giggs is back to his best, Scholes is back to his best, Keane has played really well in his last few games.
e) Deportivo 4, Milan 0. Why can't United do the very same?

dirkey_wynne

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Im using facts like they have only won one single knockout tie since they lifted the trophy (over five years ago) as a counter to the argument (and a pure piece of opinion and hearsay) that "they always lift their game for the big matches".


Im confused here. Surely you do think so if you are the only people saying so?

No, what i'm saying is we're "supporting" our team. What's the point of being a fan if you're not going to stand up and say "Hey, we have a chance" when everyone else is knocking us. What's the point of being a fan if you don't think your team can do it? I'm not for a moment saying we definitely will win. But I believe we may do so. And I don't know how you are, but I get very wound up and negative when watching my team, so I try my best to be optimistic before the games. It's going to be a ridiculously tough tie, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion. What I'm saying is, I'm standing up for us, as are other Utd fans. No non utd fans here have given us a prayer. I think it'll be closer than they do. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic. Time will tell.

But you're saying, and correct me if i'm wrong, but that by saying we can win we are flying in the face of facts (that being that we've won only one knockout tie etc) but to me, that's not flying in the face of facts. Just because we've only won one, does that mean we can't beat Milan? I don't think so. Perhaps our record hasn't been great, but I for one still think we have a hope. I don't think there's been a Utd fan on here who has said we will definitely win. I don't think there has been a non Utd fan on here who has said we definitely won't. What I am saying is that the fact we have only won once, as you say, is not a fact to prove that we won't beat Milan.

dirkey_wynne

BolBill wrote:

The facts of the matter are that Man U won't get through against Milan because:
(a) Good time Rio will be caught ball watching (again, see Stuttgart (hardly World beaters) last year)
(b) Shrek will be in Granny re hab by then and won't be able to play, not that he has done anything since his debut.
(c) Shevchenko will run riot.
(d) Van Nistelroy should not be a lone striker, this must change.

They are some top quality facts. Ah yes, the fact. Let us ponder that for a moment.

FACT
a) Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
b) A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.

I'm hoping this piece that i'm quoting is tongue in cheek. A fact, and 3 of these a-c have "will", as in, will happen. Priceless.

dirkey_wynne

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Facts of the matter are that Man United will get through against Milan because:
a) Italian teams always seem to struggle against Man Utd. (see Juventus two years ago, when Juve got to the final and also 1999).
b) Van Nistelrooy is banging goals in for fun in the Champions League. He will get a few against Milan.
c) Man Utd have scored 12 goals in three home matches in the CL.
d) Giggs is back to his best, Scholes is back to his best, Keane has played really well in his last few games.
e) Deportivo 4, Milan 0. Why can't United do the very same?

Good to see you sticking up for us Reds, good man Porn, supporting your team. Like to see it.

But people, there are no facts regarding who is going to go through, as yet. There are facts as to why people believe one side to be favourite over the other. But at the end of the day, the only facts which will matter will be which side scored more goals, or more away goals, or more penalties in teh shootout! Those will be the facts which will tell us which side went through.

cournioni

Same goes for yourself dirkey.

I know there are no facts regarding who will go through. I was giving BolBill a bit of a ribbing there because he said that the fact was that Milan would go through.

I honestly think, especially after last year (Porto, Monaco, Deportivo in the semi finals) that no one should even attempt to predict who will go through and who won't. It is just stupid.

Spalk0

Chaps chaps chaps!

Football, like every other sport does not rely on facts from the past!So since the 1999 win we have only had 1 knockout win!it doesnt necessarily mean that in the same number of Cl games from now that were only gonna win one!And if we do, why not Milan!

Dirkey_wynne and PORNAPSTER, I'll be sure on that Milan v us night hold up my pint/can when we score and say, wahey lads, were winning!

And if we won, i'll be in this forum so fast the next day just to make sure all doubters really know about it!

BolBill

Its good to see people debating without resorting to abuse.

(Still fancy Milan, sorry, had to slip that in)

Spalk0

Your entitled to your opinion you %$#%#@&!!!!.......hehe just kidding!

BolBill

Trigger! wrote:

Your entitled to your opinion you %$#%#@&!!!!.......hehe just kidding!

Yeah, sure as yer man from Die Hard 2 says (after hundreds have been killed earlier in a plane crash) tearing up the parking ticket "ITS CHRISTMAS"

Jivin Turkey

dirkey_wynne wrote:

But you're saying, and correct me if i'm wrong, but that by saying we can win we are flying in the face of facts (that being that we've won only one knockout tie etc) but to me, that's not flying in the face of facts. Just because we've only won one, does that mean we can't beat Milan? I don't think so. Perhaps our record hasn't been great, but I for one still think we have a hope. I don't think there's been a Utd fan on here who has said we will definitely win. I don't think there has been a non Utd fan on here who has said we definitely won't. What I am saying is that the fact we have only won once, as you say, is not a fact to prove that we won't beat Milan.

No youre misunderstanding me. What Im saying is because of the fact that United have only won a single knockout tie in over five years it is wrong to say "they always lift themselves for the big games". And this is the rationale that quite a few have used as to their reasoning for why United will beat Milan.

Gangsta

smemon wrote:

i cant wait until february, all this drivel about milan/manu is laughable. im guilty myself of building up and chopping down sides before matches but this is just ridiculous, theres over 2 months before a ball is kicked.

once the draw was announced, you'd expect predictions etc but to carry on with it each day is pointless. it seems when arsenal, liverpool & chelsea are up against someone they always have a chance and you never know, could go all the way. when utd are fancied by someone to beat milan and have a go at the cup immediately they are bombarded with anti-utd missiles and told to get their head checked.

im gonna be a right prat here and leave you's with the question, who was the last english side to lift the european cup?

not the current united side. the united that won it were a far better side then that of today. milan will go through, not united.