do fantasy authours run ouuta ideas?

calis

ok first i love fantasty and have collection of nearly 500 books so i have read a fair selection over a wide spectrum. but why is it that authours repeatly return to characters and trilogys and continue writing them.

some examples - gemmell with waylander druss and shannow. i mean shannow as he said himself was killed at end of book but gemmell brought him back for two more. druss we have the chonicles and the drenai tales and he too is brought back for the swords of night and day.

fiest: after doing the 3 midekima books then the empire books and then ending the saga nicely he then goes back and does the krondor books. and a book on jimmy the hand ... who we have read about since he was a kid already right up to his death.

now donaldson is doing it with covenant.

hobb has done the same with the farseer series.

there are countless more examples but me aul fingers are gettin tired typing.

ixoy

Well I think Feist was pressuirized into doing the Krondor books because of the game, although don't hold me to that.

I'm thinking its a bit of fan pressure/publishing pressure. Donaldson got a lot of kudos for Covenant so people wanted another (third) follow up and his publisher saw all the potential money. Ditto for Hobb and Fitz. The author probably also finds it easier to write with what they're familiar with.

I agree that it sometimes can be a case of wanting them to do something new. I thought Donaldson showed he was perfectly capable of this with his excellent space opera "The Gap" quintet. The other option is to do what Hobb did with the Liveship Traders - set it in the same world, but a different part or what Feist does - same world, different area and different time (there's well over a 100 years passed from "Magician" to the likes of "King of Foxes").

I guess it's up to us the fans - do we want more of the same or risk something new?

calis

thats what i mean .. it shud not be up to the fans. its that kinda pressure thats on autours to supply books to a formula that has kept the fantasy genre stagnant. i mean how many seies of books have been about small groups of mixed races seeking a talisman to stop an unspeakable evil? or the bastard child who ends up being heir apparant or the one with the magic? its like the movies now the start with a good film and the sequel the hell outta it til the original film has no credibility at all. apart from g . r. r. martins books (he seems to relish killing main characters) i havent been surprised for years when reading a book. dont get me wrong i enjoy reading them but old characters been reused every second or third book, simililar formulas been followed i cant help wondering where the genere is going.

ixoy

Have you tried Erikson's Malazan series? They're refreshing - spread over multiple continents and milllenia and very intricate/detailed.

In general, I see your point. There's certain themes that keep cropping up ad nauseum and become tiring. I generally stick to a small pool of writers whose world or writing style I enjoy. Knowing what'll happen next is not a good thing though and so I've rejected different series on that and based on sheer tiredness and dearth of ideas (Terry Goodkind I'm looking at you).

One thing they should try, at least, is to break away more from the primarily medieveal-European influenced cultures. They're nearly all based on the same time frame of our world. Remember how freshing it was to see an Oriental flavour in Feist/Wurt's Empire series? Even Kerr's Celtic influenced world is, at least, a tad different. That's a start. And less orphan child/boys who turn out to be long lost descendants of emperors/sorcers and charting a rise to greatness (something Erikson has avoided so far by having chararacters start out with long detailed histories).

calis

the fiest wurts empire books were fantasic. but a collaboration. i wonder how does books wud have fared without wurts contribution. as hes three other collaborations on the riftwar legends have not been nearly as fresh.

i know these authours are not gods who can create worlds ad nasuim but surely they can take a step outside the fantasy box and write a bit more creative. we get glimpses of it every now and then with eriksons and jordan did it for me for awhile til he dragged it out to ten books and counting. tho im sure rand will end up been the dark ones son

NeoSlicerZ

In fairness, Feist created a massive world (two at that) and many more besides that (through the Hall of the Worlds), he only explored the Kingdom of the Isles in the original trilogy, a bit of Kesh a bit of a few of the neighbouring countries. He did the Tsurani in the Empire series but the rest of the world only started to be revealed in the Serpentwar saga (Novindus) and then in the Conclave of Shadows, it's set in other kingdoms. I think Feist is going to keep going until Pug dies the death he knows that's coming to him (and possibly the resurrection of Arch-Indar and/or Ishap?).

Fenster

Feist aside, there is a lot of originality out there in fantasy. Tad Williams has really breathed life into the whole "swords and sorcery" type fantasy. His depiction of Elves-as Sitha-has them coming accross as truly alien creatures.

I don't think Hobb has done anything to death. She's finished with Fitz and most of the Farseers for now and said as much in an interview, although that said there's still a whole wide world out there that she created.

ixoy

NeoSlicerZ wrote:

I think Feist is going to keep going until Pug dies the death he knows that's coming to him (and possibly the resurrection of Arch-Indar and/or Ishap?).

For those of you who don't know, Fesit used to (maybe still does) a lot of role playing. Many years ago he created his own world to game in - Midkemia. With a friend, they started to developo the back history of this world. A few thousand years ago in his RPG world, there were a number of rift wars - five in total. His novels are detailing these rift wars. As far as I can reckon, Conclave of Shadows is the fourth rift war series (as far as Feist is concerned). As a result, I'm reckoning he'll write out all five rift wars series before finishing, with maybe a few books in between.

Oh and he said that Pug is gone (not necessarily dead) in the time period of his RPG but still remembered as a legend, so mayhap he's still a big role to play.

NeoSlicerZ

Be interesting if Pug got resurrected as the lost God of Magic

calis

i dont think pug wud die if he "dies" it will only to become something greater like the lost god of magic like neo said. wudnt like to see him killed off either - ol jimmy dying was bad enuf sniff sniff - but it wud be a nice surprise if he was

Sangre

Havent read the posts but I'd say its mostly publisher pressure and money. A known title will get a bigger advance etc., kind of like the Hollywood blockbuster.

But I'd also say that when you spend that much time creating a world you never quite leave, you're always wanting to expand and explore this world you've developed from nothing.

ixoy

I'm pretty sure that the Krondor series started only because Feists' publishers made him do it as part of a contract (to tie in with the game series).

calis

yea betrayel was a game long b4 the book. and there was another game based in midekima 9u played owyen) cant remember the name and that was a good game.

u wud think tho that a author with the reputation fiest has wudnt have too much pressure from publishers.

Evilution

I guess its up to the authors how they want to deal with dead characters. The Swords of Night and Day was a great book so I overlooked the resurgence of Druss in it.
Its all about the evolution of the stories I think. Same old characters and same old places creates boredom naturally, but evolving things really adds new depth. For example, all the new technologies that Terry Brooks includes in each Shannara series, especially the Jerle Shannara series.

Evilution

calis wrote:

...ol jimmy dying was bad enuf sniff sniff...

You utter utter bastard, I was set to start those Krondor books when I'm finished my current reading.

azezil

spoiler tags people!!

/spoiler

NeoSlicerZ

Evilution wrote:

You utter utter bastard, I was set to start those Krondor books when I'm finished my current reading.

Don't worry... it doesn't happen in that series.

Evilution

NeoSlicerZ wrote:

Don't worry... it doesn't happen in that series.

ARGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

calis

sorry. those books well worth reading anyway. again sorry.

how u do spoiler tag anyways for future reference.