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Bush wins " person of the year" award by time magazine

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    #32
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Sand wrote:
    Yeah, Irelands the place where everyone defends youre right to speak even if they dont agree with what youre saying.

    Not sure if that was sarcasm, but heres something to back it up:

    Thread

    Article


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    #33
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #34
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.

    Well, for one thing, we don't have freedom of speech zones...


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    #35
    Blackjack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Blackjack


    Gurgle wrote:
    Not sure if that was sarcasm, but heres something to back it up:

    Thread

    Article

    Damn, beaten to it.
    On the Incitement of Racial Hatred stuff I was making the point that in the US it's your right to free speech to express your belief that white people are superior beings or whatever but in Ireland you can't always.

    :confused: I would personally think that the law in Ireland in this case would be a GOOD thing.
    Would you like to show me all the examples you can find of people having more rights to free speech in Ireland than in the US? I can't find any.

    was there not an issue of where they could not publish pictures of US
    Soldiers arriving back into the US in Caskets?
    See what people miss the point on is while yes Bush is restricting American's rights with things like the Patriot Act they still have more freedom because they were so free to begin with.

    Agree with the sentiment, but undoing the freedoms, is that not a form of oppression?


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    #36
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #37
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,580 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    That's incorrect.

    If you say so. Either way he put those pinko liberal babykilling communists in their place*

    * Actually, honestly Im dont care, democrat or republican its all the same - I just said it to wind up the arts students who have so emotionally attached themselves to the Kerry campaign - you guys should checkout Truthmedia.
    Freedom of speech zones. Patriot Act. Secret Service. FBI. Gitmo.

    Sinn Fein banned from media. Special crinimal courts. Special Branch. Curragh internment.

    Hell, all youve got are buzzwords - freedom of speech zones are simply areas set aside for the usual rent a mob protestors to rant on whilst not compromising security of a political rally. Again, freedom of speech is not dependant on publicising that speech.

    The patriot act? Sure, it might be objectional on grounds of violating privacy or whatever but it doesnt ban freedom of speech, no more than the anti-hate laws that most would argue are responsible. Secret serivce and FBI? Sorry have protection of people at high risk of assassination like the US prez or federal investigation of crimes suddenly become orwellian since the Clinton presidency? Gitmo - isnt the evil empire of the US actually protecting their rights in the Supreme Court last I heard? What a bunch of evil nazi bastards eh?

    To be honest, I hope the lunatic fringe keep on trying to paint the US as some sort of orwellian nightmare - when the sky fails to fall on their head theyll be shown up as the maniacs they are.
    Not sure if that was sarcasm, but heres something to back it up:

    Well you could look at the experiences of Justin Barrett or Irvine and see how deeply the right to free speech is respected in Ireland - now before you go all freaky on me, yes theyre nut cases but the right of free speech is not extended merely to those you agree with - except in Ireland of course

    I can help you out with a counter example of a US politician being prevented from exercising his right to free speech by a US mob but unfortunately it would be that wolfiwitz guy and the mob would be michael moore fans so it wouldnt really count because only moore fans are allowed the right to free speech.


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    #38
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    Except for child pornography, thats just not true.
    Is child porn legal in the states?
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    So incitement of racial hatred is illegal in Ireland but legal in the USA. Yes, good point, they've got better freedoms than us, I wish I lived there. :rolleyes:


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    #39
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #40
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    Only on the incitement to hatred bill.
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    I will not recognize the right to view child pornography, real or fake, as a freedom. Its an abomination and anybody who thinks this should be included under a free press is at best delusional at worst a paedophile.
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    Not quite.

    I will concede that they have some specific liberties which we do not have here - Your (only) examples being the rights to incite racial hatred and to enjoy pictures of children involved in sexual acts.
    Likewise, we have some specific liberties here which they do not have, for example I am constitutionally protected from being enslaved against my will by an imperialist army and forced to murder foreigners.


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    #41
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #42
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    No, I'm not.
    I am calling anyone who argues that child pornography is OK if its fake delusional and implying that some of those people are probably paedophiles themselves.
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    No, I'm trying to draw a line between freedom and liberty.
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    Things I disagree with - racism, paedophiles
    Things GWB disagrees with - Muslims, Liberals, Socialism, Self-determination, Dissenters, Foreigners, Gay marriage, The Geneva Convention, Human rights, Civil rights, The right to life, Equality, Ethics
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    And I gave a link to the report that shows the freedom of the press in Ireland to be better than in the USA.
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    Conscription = Slavery imho.


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    #43
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #44
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #45
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Both I and the Bush admin agree on the restriction of liberties, we just differ on which ones

    There, I've said it.
    daveirl wrote:
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    Because the reporter can't print a made up story about somebody. Thats protecting the rights of everybody.
    daveirl wrote:
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    They're bigger. I was just going with the RSF report.
    daveirl wrote:
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    I consider myself a liberal too.
    I disagree with lots of things, but most of those things I don't object to.
    I disagree with Christians, Jews and Muslims (All just branches of the same religion anyway), but I would never condone any restriction on peoples rights to practise any of these religions.
    Why?
    Because no harm is done to anyone in the practise of these religions.

    I disagree with abortion but I accept that the modern world has abortion built into its culture and I believe it would be wrong to restrict a person's right to travel, even if they announced that they were going to England for an abortion.

    Do I need to explain why I think its right to restrict free speech with the incitement to hatred act?

    Or why it would be wrong to allow publication of faked child pornography?
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    GWB and the 'right to life' - I'm referring to the murder of 100,000 or so Iraquis and to the scores of death warrants he signed as governor.

    And I take every opportunity to whine about the cowboys in Dail Eireann.

    I'm going home, I'll go googling tomorrow for examples of all the other stuff.
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    Conscription has always existed in America, it just hasn't been implemented for a few decades. The way its going, we're likely to see it in the next 4 years.
    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    No, because:
    1. Switzerland is neutral, they don't invade places. The training is so that the civilian army can defend the place.
    Switzerland hasn't been at war in 500 years
    2. If you object, you don't even have to handle a gun
    It's now possible to serve in a noncombatant role, although this isn't common. In rare instances, conscientious objectors may perform Zivildienst (civilian service) in a nursing home, sanitarium, etc. instead of joining the military, at the cost of serving 50% longer than they would in the armed forces.

    Conscription in Switzerland


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    #46
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #47
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Christ almighty, anyone fancy talking about the person of the year award? :confused:


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    #48
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    daveirl wrote:
    This post has been deleted.
    OK then, agreed(ish).
    GreeBo wrote:
    Christ almighty, anyone fancy talking about the person of the year award?
    Not any more, I'm planning to be drunk in 3 hours.


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