Irishness?

C B

The Commission on the Future of Multi-Ethnic Britain has recently concluded that the term "britshness" has racist conotations. http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/world/2000/1012/wor8.htm

In light of this, Sile de Velera's, and the thread on negative racist comments, do people think that such a thing as Irishness exists and if so does anybody define themselves as Irish?

Canaboid

Of course it exists and of course we define ourselves as Irish. It's also called nationalism and it's what makes the World Cup interesting.
Hands up if your Irish and not proud of the fact.

Hobbes

Words don't start out evil. People make them evil.

Examples:

Both forms of swastika are Buddhist/Hindu. The one with the Nazi orientation is the symbol of Creation yet thanks to WW2 means anything but that to most people.

Hacker started off as a positive term. The press made it a negative term.


Anyway, my point is when "Irishness" starts to have racist overtones then the problem lies more in the fact of the actions of Irish people then the word itself.

C B

Originally posted by Hobbes:
Words don't start out evil. People make them evil.

Good point but its not really what I'm trying to get at. I'm more interested in what "Irishness" means to people.

Hobbes

Irishness means nothing to me, as I have never heard anyone use it in a sentance. Is it actually a word?

SantaHoe

No entry found for "irishness" in the dictionary.

The plot thickens.

But at a guess, I'd say someone with brown curly hair, wearing an white arron jumper, and drinking a pint of guinness while riding a horse around the cliffs of Moher, could be described as having a high degree of "Irishness" about him.

It's not the kind of thing I think about unless I'm abroad, and deep in culture-shock.

C B

Originally posted by Hobbes:
Irishness means nothing to me, as I have never heard anyone use it in a sentance. Is it actually a word?

I'm not trying to examine a word but rather a concept.
Does anybody define themselves as Irish? and if so what does being Irish mean?

As i said these questions arise partially from the thread on negative racial comments. Most people in that thread seemed to think that they could define other people by race, I'm wondering if they can do the same to themselves.

Excelsior

i dont consider myself irish beyond holding the passport. i have no love of this country.
partly because of the bull that people spout about its wonderful people. partly because the people firmly believe that they are somehow seperate from the rest of the british isles, or europe, or the world. "no man could fail to appreciate ireland as as good as any else, and certainly not inferior."
ireland has serious personality complexes. it is a different thing to each man. the green for fertility, the white for peace and the gold of prosperity are sized differently in each man's view of the country.
we downgrade art. we downgrade literature. we downgrade liberal politics and social awareness in favour of a teenage alcohol apathy.
i don't like this country. i hate this city. and the idea that people here, in little island ireland, can refuse entry and rights and compassion, even mock, refugees is sickening to me.
the idea that little island ireland can sit idly by on the UN Security Council and not demand 3rd world debt relief is appalling.
the idea that little island ireland can have a 1000 homeless people on the streets of its flagship city and 6 billion in the bank and do nothing is a travesty.
the idea that childcare is not covered by the state, including pre-schooling, is just mental.

so, who is on for applying for a UN international passport and moving to Iceland?

Jak

First off (although off topic apparently) .. I think Hobbes made a great point about the meaning of words.

It really sickens me nowadays to see people searching for things which might be offensive to them and then publicising it. Changing Frogman to Frogperson down in my local pool, was one example where i felt genuine pity for the sad woman who had taken issue with a poster.


Anyway to go back on topic ...

Ism's are dangerous. Especially Nationalism.

Personally (and following the idea of taking people as individuals) I would loathe the idea of being identified along the lines of nationality. There are too many Irish people I know who are the polar opposite of me, and if i have nothing in common with them, then I don't see how our common nationality can mean anything.

That said, having travelled a fair bit and having lived abroad with a mix of foreigners on an Erasmus year, the perception of Irish seems to be ...

"Happy go lucky, friendly Fun types who can drink more than your average bear and enjoy a good friendly punch up."

This was the stereotype, I liked it, and I'm sure it does fit a number of Irish people.

But (and this will be the case for any definition) there is no way it applies to everyone born in Ireland, therefore I don't think "Irishness" has any real use as a descriptive term.

JAK.

Canaboid

Excelsior, If you genuinely dislike your own country for the reasons you outline then I feel sorry for you. To which particular utopia are you going to flee ? Where will you be happy ? If I may suggest an answer - Nowhere. It's not a problem with Ireland it's a problem with you and humanity in general. I'm sorry if this sounds confrontational it's not supposed to be. There are things wrong with the world that you can't influence. Concentrate instead on the smaller ones that you can.
Humanity is dysfunctional. We were designed that way for whatever reason. To say you hate this country because of teenage alcohol apathy suggests to me that you may just be a tiny little bit over sensitive.
Lighten up and start seeing the good things in life as well as the bad.

Excelsior

assess my personality on a sentence or two.
it'll be fun.

Jak

Excelsior.

By all means leave. But you may want to get a Visa before you go.

Canaboid

Just did.

Baz_

Well I quite like Ireland, sure it has it's problems but I'm sure that no matte where you go the country will have it's own fair share of problems, thats just natural. Also if you don't like the way the government is running the country vote for somebody else, if you already have and they lost, then vote and campaign for somebody else, there is only one way to change how the country is run, and that is obviously a democratical way and whether or not the person you voted for wins at least you had the choice, to vote and to campaign.

This isn't one o them you don't know how lucky you are to have a vote posts I just don't understand the fact that you think that just by running away (and I know you were only joking (I think)) you will no longer have troubles in the land you live.

I can sum up my feelings for Ireland in one sentence: Ireland is Whopper!!!!

C B

Originally posted by Jak:
First off (although off topic apparently) .. I think Hobbes made a great point about the meaning of words.

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But (and this will be the case for any definition) there is no way it applies to everyone born in Ireland, therefore I don't think "Irishness" has any real use as a descriptive term.

Yes I agree entirely with Hobbes (and your) point regarding words and what they mean. If I could raise this issue without using words believe me I would. But until I futher develop my well honed telepathic skills words will have to do.

So lets try to ignore the words themselves (and nobody point out the hypocracy of some of my other posts regarding semantics )

Is being Irish a defining characteristic (positive or negative) of anybodys character?

I was hoping that some of the people who thought it was o.k. to define other people by their race would answer this. (unfortunately the only people to reply sofar are those who esentially agreed with me in the other thread).

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What about China? Have you seen the great wall?

All walls are great if the roof doesn't fall!