I learnt about shooting from that.

dCorbus

If this thread is still about safety and "dumb-ass" mistakes:

Don't try loading 6.5 rounds into a .308!

Had a .308 at a shoot recently - had two sets of ammo - was handed the 6.5 box and loaded one in.

Oddly enough - and thankfully - the bolt would not close!

At least, it wasn't the other way round!

A totally stupid, and potentially highly dangerous, newbie mistake on my part - always check your ammo YOURSELF, and then double check again!

Sandy22

dCorbus wrote: »

A totally stupid, and potentially highly dangerous, newbie mistake on my part - always check your ammo YOURSELF, and then double check again!

Don't be too hard on yourself. If this is the case I think it is, you had a very experienced shooter spotting for you and it took him longer than it should have done to work out what was wrong.

dCorbus

Thanks Sandy
Learnt a valuable lesson about personal responsibility with that incident!
Needless to say, I will, from now on, check everything myself - gear, rifle, scope, ammo, the lot.

In fairness to my 'spotter', got great advice from him and he couldn't be expected to nurse-maid me!:D

Every day's an education. Learnt that your gear needs to be treated with responsibility and respect.

Pat McGroin

Hey Lads .
Im just wondering with all the shooting/hunting experience on here , could we get a thread on shooting safety and etiquette , the do's and dont's while out hunting kinda thing .
Maybe even the odd close shave story to get lads thinking bout the safety side of things a bit more.

johngalway

Always check any gun handed to you is unloaded.
Don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to kill - (probably the reason I despise guns being pointed at me).
Don't climb over obstacles, fences, gates etc. with a loaded gun.
Always make sure that behind your target is a safe and suitable backstop.
If you're not sure of a shot, don't take it.

SeaFields

Always check the barrels for blockages before reloading after coming through a ditch, overgrowth etc.

Always check the breech of a rifle, never assume you have used all your rounds (important in the case of 22's).

Do not leave a loaded gun down for any reason (I've seen very experienced shots doing this).

Keep the barrels of the gun facing out of a hide, over the netting

Pat McGroin

Good stuff John.
Thats the kind of info that could jog someone's mind in a situation and prevent an accident
Few months back I was out for a few pints with a couple of mates , headed back to one of their houses later that night and inside the door of the house was a .22 mag , I picked it up and opened the bolt straight away , i was horrified to see a round in the gun . I took out the mag and round and asked the lad what the Fcuk was he thinking , To which he replied 'sure its fine , the safety is on '
Needless to say I won't be accompanying him on any shooting trips in the near future.

johngalway

Oh yes, another one I have seen in action is related to the physical safety of your guns...

Might seem obvious but...

Don't leave the keys in the safe door!

doyle61

when im out im constantly checking the safety on the rifle/ shot gun. im really paraniod about it, but then again ive seen plenty of ND's happen.
in fairness though, 99% of safety is all about a bit of common sence and not being complacent. the .22 rifle is responsible for a huge % of hunting related deaths/ injuries and in my opinion most of that is down to complacency

Double Barrel

A Fathers Advise may be old but it is on the mark. I had to know this by rote before my father would let me take my first shot.


A Father's Advice

If a sportsman true you'd be
Listen carefully to me...

Never, never let your gun
Pointed be at anyone.
That it may unloaded be
Matters not the least to me.

When a hedge or fence you cross
Though of time it cause a loss
From your gun the cartridge take
For the greater safety sake.

If twixt you and neighboring gun
Bird shall fly or beast may run
Let this maxim ere be thine
"Follow not across the line."

Stops and beaters oft unseen
Lurk behind some leafy screen.
Calm and steady always be
"Never shoot where you can't see."

You may kill or you may miss
But at all times think of this:
"All the Pheasants ever bred
Won't repay for one man dead".

Keep your place and silent be;
Game can hear, and game can see;
Don’t be greedy, better spared
Is a pheasant, than one shared.


Written by Mark Beaufoy in 1902, on presenting his eldest son with his first gun.

Grizzly 45

dCorbus wrote: »

If this thread is still about safety and "dumb-ass" mistakes:

Don't try loading 6.5 rounds into a .308!

Had a .308 at a shoot recently - had two sets of ammo - was handed the 6.5 box and loaded one in.

Oddly enough - and thankfully - the bolt would not close!

At least, it wasn't the other way round!

A totally stupid, and potentially highly dangerous, newbie mistake on my part - always check your ammo YOURSELF, and then double check again!

Somwhat on this line.Make SURE your 20 GA and 12 Ga ammo doesnt get mixed!!Dropping a 20 GA down a 12 GA and then firing is a sure recipie for a very bad day!!!Most ammo makers are now making their 20 GA in bright yellow,or other high viz colours to prevent this happening.But it still could happen,and especially if you have old ammo. Found an old Eley Kynoch 20 Ga shell ,and if you werent paying attention you could easily mistake it for 12 GA,as they are both that old bright Orange/Red colour Eley used to make all its shells in.

Tackleberrywho

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Somwhat on this line.Make SURE your 20 GA and 12 Ga ammo doesnt get mixed!!Dropping a 20 GA down a 12 GA and then firing is a sure recipie for a very bad day!!!Most ammo makers are now making their 20 GA in bright yellow,or other high viz colours to prevent this happening.But it still could happen,and especially if you have old ammo. Found an old Eley Kynoch 20 Ga shell ,and if you werent paying attention you could easily mistake it for 12 GA,as they are both that old bright Orange/Red colour Eley used to make all its shells in.

I saw a lad load a 5.6x52 into a .220 swift before.

Years ago I had a FMJ in hunting ammo, Not good.

or letting different grain ammo mix as POI changes

jimbrowning

Vegeta wrote: »

Yeah i have to agree with civdef, for example i just learned about the 20-12 gauge incident and hopefully will be wiser because of this. I don't own a 20 gauge but if I am ever shooting with a person with a 20 gauge i will tripple check my ammo when loading

as far as i kno, all 20 bore shells are yellow and no other size shell is yellow for this reason. think thats the way it works in uk anyway.

Irish Springer

na doesn't work like that here, plenty of 12 gauge shells are yellow RC 3 being one that comes to mind. Just double check the size to be sure!

tinski07

Not sure if I'm posting in the right place now or not but I just read through the whole
15 pages because its great info and a very good idea.
I first had a gun when I was 16 and despite being thought strictly what not to do, I think now I was a bit young to have been left at it.
Only things I have to add is never touch a trigger unless you have what you want to kill in your sight, I once fired into the air while walking with the gun at my shoulder and the action near my ear after failing to engage the safety after reloading minutes earlier. Luckily I was on my own and the gun was in a reasonably safe position albeit one which I no longer use. I don't even like spring caps now as they seem to go against the grain. There is no need to ever put a finger inside the trigger guard unless you its time to fire.

Tackleberrywho

I'd been busy all day doing some work that I'd been dodging all Christmas.

So I decided since I had the drinks and Grub in from earlier yesterday; That I'd go and do a bit of lamping.

I went out to a few spots relatively local to me and shone the lamp. I discovered the following.
1. The batteries were almost knackered, (I suppose I had used it extensively for 4 weeks, and they were not duracell batteries)
2.I chamberd a round (or at least tried to), the bolt was stiff (not that unuasual with a full mag.

So, I said I'd clear the action when the bolt was sticking.
Bolt came back, but no round came with it, I paused........
WTF?
I chambered a round,Didn't I??
So I carried out safety, emptied the tube by dropping the floor plate.
I got my Pocket P4 LED LENSER and inspected teh chamber, round inside.

WEDGED inside.
I said that's weird?
I said I'd CLear the action if possible by firing off the round;not an ideal situation but into the hill behind me.
At least then I could try and retrieve the empty casing.
I worked the bolt forward, she would not go forward.
I asid, FCUK, out came my P4 LED LEnser again, and a more careful inspection.
I noticed the smallest amount of a cloth type material at teh base of the round.

Then i thought........
I had given the barrel a good scrubbing before I left the house.
I had used the Parker Hale rod, Hoppes Benchrest and the Jag.
I only had my .223 flannel as all my .308 cloth was used up.

I got the rod and did what seemed so wrong, but the only way forward.
I had to put the rod in muzzle end first, I know never from the Muzzle......

Anyhow, I got the round out! Phewwww

Moral of the story

GET MOLY ROUNDS AND YOU NEVER HAVE TO CLEAN
And Always keep spare batteries on your person

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

IGET MOLY ROUNDS AND YOU NEVER HAVE TO CLEAN
And Always keep spare batteries on your person

Inspect the breach and chamber after cleaning.;)

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

Inspect the breach and chamber after cleaning.;)

I actually had, With a P4 Led Lenser. I was even trying to get a photo of the rifling before and after.

I'm not sure who the piece got there exactly.

Never happened before.
And I'll get the propper size cleaning flannelette for the .308
No more using .223 cloth

Cass

MarkD. wrote: »

................ when he used the bolt the round used or not never extracted........................, it was down to the spring system in the mag wasnt working. It wasnt forcing the used cartridge out and push the next one up.

A little confused here. It won't extract the round from the breach (live or fired) or the magazine spring is faulty?

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I actually had, With a P4 Led Lenser.

Did ya turn it on?

Sparks

Merging with the safety thread...

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

A little confused here. It won't extract the round from the breach (live or fired) or the magazine spring is faulty?



Did ya turn it on?

On a remington there is a hidie hole for something to be missed when cleaning.
I've Ordered a leatherman MUT with a bronze scraper which will help remove the brass build up.

Point's to note are, A good Torch is required to clean a firearm thoroughly, and a mirror or magnifying glass to see into those hard to reach places.

It's only when you shine a brilliant white light on something that you actually see how clean something is:eek:

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

It's only when you shine a brilliant white light on something that you actually see how clean something is:eek:

Thats why i recently invested in a bore scope. Excellent piece of gear and you miss nothing with it.

Victor

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2011/0114/1224287489099.html

Injured fox shoots hunter in leg in Belarus

MOSCOW – A wounded fox shot its would be killer in Belarus by pulling the trigger on the hunter’s gun as the pair scuffled after the man tried to finish the animal off with the butt of the rifle, media said yesterday.

The unnamed hunter, who had approached the fox after wounding it from a distance, was in hospital with a leg wound, while the fox made its escape, media said, citing prosecutors from the Grodno region.

“The animal fiercely resisted and in the struggle accidentally pulled the trigger with its paw,” one prosecutor was quoted as saying.

Fox-hunting is popular in the picturesque farming region of northwestern Belarus, which borders Poland. – (Reuters)

johnnymolloy

was out yesterday hunting and seen a few rabbits and so on after a while we got bored so we put up a board and shot that. my brother asked for a go of the gun so let him and when he fired it let of this huge bang and i looked at the brother and he was holding his ear and i looked at the gun and seen smoke comin out of it so i quickly went over checked the brother and then checked the gun and noticed the extractor was completley bent outta shape so much i couldnt cycle the bolt and when we seen the cartridge the rim of the rimfire cartridge had blown out the side when we got home we eventually got the bolt out and the cartridge and checked the barrel for a bullet to see if was backpressure that caused it but their was nothing anyone any ideas

Jonty

calibre, type of rifle, type of ammo?

Sparks

First thought would be backpressure - if there was no bulging in the barrel and no damage to the rifling though, it might not have been - could have been dodgy ammo or something else. Was there a round before the accident that sounded funny or didn't hit the board?

(And obviously, have it checked and repaired by a proper gunsmith before you ever use it again - would hardly need to be said, you'd imagine, but just in case someone else reading this wouldn't think of it...)

johnnymolloy

sorry my bad knew i forgot something

marlin 25mn
.22 magnum
40gr cci maxi mags hp

Cass

johnnymolloy wrote: »

.......... i looked at the gun and seen smoke comin out of it

Smoke coming out of where? Breach/chamber, muzzle?

............ noticed the extractor was completley bent outta shape so much i couldnt cycle the bolt

Was the bolt closed or open? Did you or the brother open the bolt after he fired it or did it open itself?

............... the cartridge the rim of the rimfire cartridge had blown out the side when we got home we eventually got the bolt out and the cartridge and checked the barrel for a bullet to see if was backpressure that caused it but their was nothing anyone any ideas

As Sparks asked did you have a "misfire" or non fire prior? Did you hear a crack, but not the usual bang of the gun in the shot before that one?


The more details the better our understanding of exactly what happened.

johnnymolloy

spraks their doesnt seem to be any bulging in the barrel or any damage
and their last bullet shot before it happened sounded fine and hit the board

Sparks

Hm. Can you see any damage to the barrel? (Shine a torch into the chamber and look down the barrel to check).



(And yes, it does sound very odd to tell someone to look down the barrel of a rifle )

johnnymolloy

the smoke was comin out of the breach/chamber

the bolt was closed when it was fired and was closed when i went over the handle may have moved a little but not enought to let the chamber open

johnnymolloy

johnnymolloy wrote: »

the smoke was comin out of the breach/chamber

the bolt was closed when it was fired and was closed when i went over the handle may have moved a little but not enought to let the chamber open

sorry ment to say the handle may have moved due to wat happened the handle never moves when i shoot with it

4gun

is it possoble you had a "dry fire" kind of senario where you can test fire your gun by leaving the bolt half down..then when you pull the trigger the bolt drops all the way down.....
either that you had a faulty round maybe? first one blocked, second one cleared both out..rim fires would hardly have the power to blow out the barrel

Cass

It sounds like the round fired could have been overcharged. This can happen at the manufacturing plant. A round could have been given two loads of powder or even more than was originally intended for the round. When fired it exceeds the tolerances of the spec for the rifle/caliber. In this case not enough to throw the bolt back, but enough to damage the extrators and shell as the pressure from the shot has to go somewhere.

Check the brass if you still have it. Check the indentation made by the firing pin. See if there is a crater type ring around the indentation. This is one sign of prssure and over loading in a round. The case being blown out is a sure sign of overloading, among other issues.

I would first and foremost get the rifle to a gunsmith and have it professionally checked for signs of pressure damage. The next thing is to stop using the ammo the round is related to. In other words do not use anymore from the same batch/box.

Once you have all that done, checked and sorted buy another brand of ammo and check that it fires okay. Set up any target at 30/40 or 50 yds. The distance is not important only that you can see the bullet holes and keep detailed records of how many shots and how many holes in the target. Check the brass as it comes out. Check for pressure signs on the brass as described above.


Most of all have hearing and eye protection on at all times. Take no chances. Guns cn be replaced, hands, eyes, etc cannot.

johnnymolloy

ye its possible but to be honest im not sure im only shooting about 6 months or so

johnnymolloy

the noise was an awful lot louder than normal so maybe the overloading at the factory is the problem

this is wat the case looked like
except the rip in the case was on the edge of the rim or just above it

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.guntalk-online.com/images/22case_4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D155795%26sid%3D4cfbd4c4c081f8d915cbc1bdba26b1c8&usg=__zOu43bUsJtWpQCOitNGLCf9N_oA=&h=352&w=489&sz=122&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=maB69BJ14e8RzM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=185&ei=L89BTfDUNdGahQfu2PjKAQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drimfire%2Bcasing%2Bsplit%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1419%26bih%3D750%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=172&oei=L89BTfDUNdGahQfu2PjKAQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0&tx=51&ty=110

Cass

It would seem to be overloading. All i will say is be careful with the rest of the box/batch of bullets. There are four possibilities:

1. The rest of the ammo is fine. You'll have no more problems.
2. The overloaded round have taken the charge of the next round on the line and one of them could actually be empty. As in no powder. Its rare, but then so is overloading/charging.
3. It was not a once off and the others could be over loaded.
4. None of the above and the problem wasn't actually overcharged load.

Hence the reason i would really encourage you to seek a professionals help. no disrespect, but not your dealer a professional gunsmith that has the tools and expertise to check the rifle and bore scope it.

johnnymolloy

none taken ezridax i will definately have it checked out by a gunsmith before i use it again

Sparks

Also, take note of the ammunition make, type and batch number. When Ezri said it was rare, he was understating things - it's so unusual that you should report it to the manufacturer so they can track it. If it's happening enough, they may even have to issue a recall.

johnnymolloy

well ill put it up here so if it happens to someone else we can check if their the same batch

brand:cci
type:maxi mag hp
caliber:22 magnum
batch number:E13004

ssl

I had a similar incident a few years. I was using my .22lr CZ 513 Farmer. I don't know what ammo I was using at the time.
I was doing a bit of plinking on the bog with a friend of mine when instead of the usually bang there a low "pop" and a loud "hiss" as smoke came out from around the bolt.
On inspection the bolt,gun and brass casing were grand but the barrel was blocked by the bullet.
Using oil and a cleaning rod I pushed out the bullet, from bolt to muzzle.
The barrel was dirty but there was nothing blocking the bullet.
I put it down to that single round being underpowered and the dirt slowed it to a stop.
I do clean the gun more frequently since then and have had no reoccurrences.

garv123

johnnymolloy wrote: »

well ill put it up here so if it happens to someone else we can check if their the same batch

brand:cci
type:maxi mag hp
caliber:22 magnum
batch number:E13004

il have the lad i shoot with check his batch number since there the rounds he uses and that the marlin seems to love.

had you many bullets gone from the box?

johnnymolloy

id say i was half way throught the box when it happened

im just wondering lads can i do something about this if it was the ammo as my brothers hearin is still not returned to normal yet

Sparks

You mean other than not using any more of it?
I'd say it's fairly doubtful.

johnnymolloy

well i mean if my brothers hearin is permantly damaged surely someone is responsible

Sparks

Yup. You could even sue the manufacturer.
Thing is, you'd show up in court with the best representation you could afford and they'd show up with the best they could afford (think Arthur Cox. Not the firm, the actual chap himself).
In a fight like that, it's very hard to win. Not to say it's impossible, but...

...well, could you honestly swear that you'd maintained the ammunition in perfect conditions? Never too hot, never too cold, never got wet, never got a knock, was taken out of the box and stored in a solid plastic box like the MTM ones? And that the firearms dealer who sold you the ammunition did so as well? Their solicitor and barrister will be paid to ask crappy questions like that.

...not to mention the awkward question of whether or not you were on an authorised range when the shot was taken (since, if you weren't, you were in breach of the Firearms Acts and your brother had possession of an unlicenced firearm unless he himself has a second licence for your rifle).

That's the hassle with court, it's all polite language, but it's still a knife-fight for all that.

johnnymolloy

hmmm i see wat you mean even though i was on land i had permission to shoot on, but surely who fired the gun is not important cause if i fired it we would be in the same position

anyway its still to be decided what caused the problem i brought the gun to a gun dealer in mullingar to be looked over and repaired im gonna ring him tomorrow to see if he can asses wat caused it

Sparks

johnnymolloy wrote: »

hmmm i see wat you mean even though i was on land i had permission to shoot on

But as you said yourself, you put up a board and were shooting at that. That's target shooting, taking place somewhere other than an authorised range, and that's an offence under the Act.

but surely who fired the gun is not important cause if i fired it we would be in the same position

But if your brother who had no licence and wasn't covered by 2(4)(g) because you weren't on an authorised range fired it, then he was acting illegally.

The point with both those points is that the company would argue in court that it can't be held liable for injuries suffered while carrying out illegal acts.

The law's a bit nasty when it gets down to it

anyway its still to be decided what caused the problem i brought the gun to a gun dealer in mullingar to be looked over and repaired im gonna ring him tomorrow to see if he can asses wat caused it

Let us know what it was - a fair few people might have the same setup, it'd be a good thing to warn them if it was dodgy ammo!

johnnymolloy

well you seem to know alot about the law around guns sparks, thank you for clearing things up

garv123

Sparks wrote: »

But if your brother who had no licence and wasn't covered by 2(4)(g) because you weren't on an authorised range fired it, then he was acting illegally.




Let us know what it was - a fair few people might have the same setup, it'd be a good thing to warn them if it was dodgy ammo!

must you pay 80 quid to get a licence to use a gun belong to a friend/family?

+1 on the setup. would like to hear id it was the bullets. still will always be something you'll be more aware of when firing the gun