Bush authorized 911 attacks??

TomF

I love postings like this because they smoke-out the truly nutty for future reference and understanding.

keu

I dont think it is entirely suprising that there are so many conspiracies surrounding the events, particularly when there is so much evidence which suggest bush and bin laden families corporate interests.
Whether the events were conducted deliberately or seen as an oppertunistic is debatable, but anyone who thinks that a govt. couldn't concieve such a plot is very naive.

If bin laden and his terrorist organisation really did want to hit America hard, why fly planes into the twin towers or the pentagon? Symbolic representations of the wealth and security of America?
why not just fly them into a few nuclear reactors and be done with it?

sovtek

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Calling Bush bad names based on questionable evidence is quite a bit different to killing 100,000 people based on questionable evidence.
That said this claim by Hilton is serious garbage...or rather his "evidence" is.
I still believe in the "they let it happen on purpose"...rather than being actively involved themselves (the Bushies).

therecklessone

TomF wrote:

I love postings like this because they smoke-out the truly nutty for future reference and understanding.

But we smoked you out ages ago???

Memnoch

Nuttzz wrote:

Why would they kill themselves? No sane person would do what they did just for money.

kill themselves? Who is THEMSELVES? you think all americans are as one? You must be living in a fantasy world if you think this..

there is no "THEMSELVES". There are selfish people thorughout the world and throughout history.

People murder, rape, pillage for money and sometimes even less than that.

My father once saved the life of a man who was stabbed over 50 cents. 50 cents and he was nearly stabbed to death over it.

For people like G. W. Bush there is no "us". They only think of themselves. Off course this is something I've always said from day 1. I mean the Bush administration is a pile of corrupt bastards. They are happy to send american soldiers to die for their greed. They are happy to murder 100k+ innocent iraqis for their greed.

You really think they give even the slightest bit of concern to a couple of thousand ordinary american joes????

This has to be the most naieve thing i've heard in my life.

Memnoch

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

no there wasn't. There was no evidence apart from the fabrications of the Bush administration. I have always said from DAY 1 that nothing would be found. Though I did think they might try to plant something there in order to "find it". But it was obvious there was nothing. Because if there had been something they wouldn't have had to lie about it so much

Memnoch

Meh wrote:

Yeah, and it's the same people who bash Bush for being too stupid to tie his shoelaces who also credit him with being an evil genius who masterminded the 911 attacks. Make up your minds, people!

Bush himself is stupid... but the people with him and behind him certainly aren't. He's simply an ignorant spoilt figurine.

Memnoch

gandalf wrote:

Why do people give these conspiracy theories any time at all. The US authorities messed up royally because they were complacent, they didn't believe they could or would be hit.

I mean what next Osama Bin Laden to run for US President :rolleyes:

tell me gandalf? why is it SO unbelievable?

Have there been not the acts of great atrocities throughout history? and even in our world today fueled by insatiable human greed for wealth and power?

Look at the Bush administration and everything they have done..

from the mass murder in iraq..
to fabricating this WMD rubbish before the war...
they had no qualms about bombing all of afghanasthan into a pile of rubble only to hand it back into the hands of muslim extremists
and they have no qualms about thousands of american soldiers being killed and maimed for their greed.
throughout the world they support brutal and corrupt regimes that commit countless crimes against humanity.
they even try to topple popular democratic government through coups if it suits their interest (venezuela)

So why do you think that even for a moment if it suited them that they would care about the lives of a couple of thousand ordinary americans?

I mean by now it must be obvious to even the most dim that Bush and his pals have gained the most from 9/11. In political and financial capital.

So tell me? Why is it just a conspiracy theory to be casually dismissed when one considers all of the above?

Memnoch

Moriarty wrote:

Let's see...

A group of muslim fundamentalists decide to attack America. They think of the highest profile targets in the country. New York/WTC, the Pentagon, possibly the white house with the 4th plane. They enter the US like thousands of others every day under questionable documents. They lay low and train to fly the planes. US intelligence is too incompetent to put the pieces together/there aren't enough pieces to be put together. The attacks succeed.


... or ...


There's a massive conspiracy throughout the entire US government and military, along with countless other countrys that are needed to reinforce the lies that need to be told. Some shadowy group decide the only way to win the next election/go to war with iraq/whatever is to kill a few thousand americans. Not a single person out of the thousands that would have to be involved says a peep about it after.


I know which I'm more likely to believe, that's for sure.

your entire dismissal rests upon this thousands needing to be involved... why should that be so? black ops are done time and time again in numerous countries by various intelligence agencies... i suppose none of them exist because supposedly the thousands involved would have spoken out by now if they did.

Personally i agree with dahmasta, I don't think they planned it, but I'm certain they knew it was coming and purposefully LET it happen.

Moriarty

Two things memnoch.

1) You realise you can actually reply to everyone in the one post, yeah? Easier to keep the thread together that way.

2) You're delusional, but then I've always known that.

MrPudding

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I'll believe it only when it's proved. Sorry but this theory seems way too far fetched to be believed on face value.

It is amazing what people will take at face value and without proof, facts or figures. The Bilble for example.

There is even a plonker here on boards that believes that because 50 000 people came to Ireland from the new accession countries in the first 6 months that the Irish will be outnumbered in their own country in 34 years.

Like I say it is amazing what some people will believe or even make up without any basis in fact.

MrP

Memnoch

Moriarty wrote:

Two things memnoch.

1) You realise you can actually reply to everyone in the one post, yeah? Easier to keep the thread together that way.

2) You're delusional, but then I've always known that.

if i'm delusional then you are blissfully ignorant, but lets not get started on personal insults and flame wars :P

Moriarty

Merry christmas you bastard

joseph brand

Why is there no talk of the attack on the Pentagon now, and 911 is in our Ears more than them F**king ringtone commercials??

Am I wrong??

That Boeing 757 was shot down over the Atlantic, easy task for Navy.

Tell the men it is terrorists, .. .. watch them scramble to be 1st to shoot tit down.

Shouting "Woohoooo Woohooo, Yeah, Woohooo!!" (Yanks, 'ALL' of them)

sovtek

joseph brand wrote:

Shouting "Woohoooo Woohooo, Yeah, Woohooo!!" (Yanks, 'ALL' of them)

Smile when ya say that...:)
*Three sixty sixteeeeeeeeeeee* :cool:

Lennoxschips

I mean what next Osama Bin Laden to run for US President

Or Osama Bin Laden to release video three days before election, thus influencing the outcome of Ohio and handing the Presidency to Bush.

Nah, it would never happen.

SkepticOne

It all makes sense now.

Nuttzz

Memnoch wrote:

kill themselves? Who is THEMSELVES? you think all americans are as one? You must be living in a fantasy world if you think this..

there is no "THEMSELVES". There are selfish people thorughout the world and throughout history.

People murder, rape, pillage for money and sometimes even less than that.

My father once saved the life of a man who was stabbed over 50 cents. 50 cents and he was nearly stabbed to death over it.

For people like G. W. Bush there is no "us". They only think of themselves. Off course this is something I've always said from day 1. I mean the Bush administration is a pile of corrupt bastards. They are happy to send american soldiers to die for their greed. They are happy to murder 100k+ innocent iraqis for their greed.

You really think they give even the slightest bit of concern to a couple of thousand ordinary american joes????

This has to be the most naieve thing i've heard in my life.

what have you being drinking, themselves as in the hijackers

DublinWriter

GaRtH_V wrote:

not that i dont agree...
but if bush had oredered the whole operation,to what end?
to kill saddam?
to attack the Bin Laden family?(who,coincidentally,had a lot of fingers in Bush's pies)

Well, the recent BBC documentry 'States of Fear' went into great detail about who would benefit.

As for the conpiracy, I'm still wavering. There's lots of suspicious things, like for example the CIA finding one of the hijackers passports in the smouldering ruins of the Twin Towers site a few days after, one of the hijackers cases not being tranferred onto a connecting flight (in which the FBI found lots of evidence), and the Pentagon strike where not one identifiable piece of aircraft was ever recovered and the security video tapes from a nearby gas-station were consfiscated and never shown publically.

These are just three things, dig around on Google and you'll find plenty, ranging from the plausable to the downright cracked.

This might well be the JFK assination of the 21st Century (I do believe Oswald was the lone gunman) and there are way too many loose ends.

One thing is for certain, expect the Oliver Stone biopic anytime soon.

monument

Nuttzz wrote:

Why would they kill themselves? No sane person would do what they did just for money.

Memnoch wrote:

For people like G. W. Bush there is no "us". They only think of themselves. Off course this is something I've always said from day 1. I mean the Bush administration is a pile of corrupt bastards. They are happy to send american soldiers to die for their greed. They are happy to murder 100k+ innocent iraqis for their greed..

Without getting caught up (too much) in conspiracy theories; more of a comment on general politics… How naive does one have to be to believe that Bush, the neocons, the bosses at New Labour, and even most of FF, give a rat's ass about anyone other then their selves, their friends, or the people under their tents?

If one wants to they can justify any action. Let’s say a mindset of dropping a few bombs on a few cities over and over again is seeing as fine… what next? Wiping out cities to end wars? What next?

You can do any thing if you believe any means justifies your concept of an end.

protos

I just finished watching Manchurian Candidate (great film) and I was reading Robert Eberts review of it afterwards - I always prefer to go into a film before I read the reviews, but Robert Eberts review had an interesting link at the end of it - the arabian candidate : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6524.htm

from aNew York Times jounalist.

Hobbes

one of the hijackers cases not being tranferred onto a connecting flight (in which the FBI found lots of evidence),

If you have ever flown out of Boston I can tell you now its plausible. What wasn't so plausible was the car found in the airport with even more damming evidence. What terrorist drives around with stuff that says "Arrest me" if they were stopped by the cops?

and the Pentagon strike where not one identifiable piece of aircraft was ever recovered and the security video tapes from a nearby gas-station were consfiscated and never shown publically.

Thats been debunked ages ago. Also the tape was shown publically on 9/11. I saw it on TV (as well as you can probably find it on the net too). The FBI then confiscated it shortly after it was shown. Shows feck all.

These are just three things, dig around on Google and you'll find plenty, ranging from the plausable to the downright cracked.

The main ones are "Did people with CIA links profit from stocks?" and whatever happened to the Anthrax investigations what were pinned on OBL?

Or Osama Bin Laden to release video three days before election, thus influencing the outcome of Ohio and handing the Presidency to Bush.

Around the same time as that video they had a documentry on discovery on how they recreated history footage so that you couldn't tell it was someone else.

I think you give OBL too much credit for the election. I say Diebold would of done a better job at that.

Moriarty

Hobbes wrote:

The main ones are "Did people with CIA links profit from stocks?" and whatever happened to the Anthrax investigations what were pinned on OBL?

The ones a month or so later? They found the guy pretty quickly, he was an american who worked in one of the cdc labs iirc.

pete

Moriarty wrote:

The ones a month or so later? They found the guy pretty quickly, he was an american who worked in one of the cdc labs iirc.

Someone better tell the Washington Post so...

Anthrax Killer at Large

AMONTH AFTER the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, letters tainted with the anthrax bacteria were sent through U.S. mail processing facilities, infecting people in New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Washington and Florida. The worst bioterrorist assault in U.S. history left five people dead, 17 sickened and some 10,000 on antibiotics. Public buildings had to be closed and cleaned at great expense; similarly expensive workplace safeguards have since been installed. Rubber gloves in mailrooms are now almost as common as envelopes. Yet three years after the anthrax mailings shocked the nation, we seem to be no closer to knowing who sent the letters. The bioterrorists are still at large.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A93-2004Dec14.html

pwd

The choice of target doesn't make all that much sense from the point of view of Arab terrorists, imo.
The world trade centre was an international institution, rather than a purely American one. There were a great mix of nationalities in it at the time of the event.
It was extremely impolitic to target it. It aroused the fear and outrage of every country not totally anti-american to a much greater extent than other targets may have.
Would flying into a nuclear power plant not be a more impressive feat for a genuine attack by outsiders? This would be far more destructive wouldn't it? and it would have been targetting America more specifically.

For exactly the same reasons, the choice of target makes perfect sense for the american government.

I am skeptical of Bush's apparent idiocy. It may be an act by an intelligent man, or the man may be a decoy for the real intelligence running the show. His apparent stupidity can distract critics somewhat from identifying more sinister motives.

The US government had more means and oppurtunity for this action than the terrorists alone.
For this particular choice of target they had greater motive too.

I only scanned the article, and doubtless much of what I have said will be ripped to shreds by people who are better-informed by me (which is ok cos I'm interetsd in the explanations for what I have talked about).
The bit where he described america being turned into a presidential dictatorship through a pearl-harbour type event was very interesting though. It is pretty much what happened. They are very free over there in theory. But they are not really they are controlled in subtler ways than simple laws. Hugely invasive media controlling with fear and bull****. Huge amount of emphasis on personal image being put forward that prevents most of them from developing their own minds. Huge emphasis on group cohesion and group conformity as exemplified by the pep rallies and football games with cheerleaders and stands for school kids even.
There was an article in a recent new scientist showing that when people are afraid they become extremely aggressive towards outsiders (generally foreigners) and more oriented toward their own group. One of the principles of controlling a group and unifying it is to identify a common enemy for the group also. Delusions of morality (if the group says it's ok then it is the right thing to do) and delusions of invulnerability are effects of this kind of mentality.

I'm not expressing myself very articulately, which i apologise for,, cos I'm dead tired,,, but I'm not putting forward any ideas that are too massively original either so most of you will take most of my meaning I hope.

pickarooney

Question to anyone who feels like answering it - why exactly do so many people believe or pretend to believe that G.W. Bush is an idiot? Is it just simplistic name-calling because he's not fat or bald or cross-eyed or is there something more to it?

[edit]heh, I see I'm not the only one wondering it [/edit]

Memnoch

have you ever heard the man give a speech or a press-conference? Just do a google search for famous bush quotes.

I think my favorite one was "Well tribal sovereignty means that your sovereign. And therefore the relationship between you and your country is that of sovereign entities"

Also the fact that throughout his tenure its been such that only pre-prepared and approved questions are allowed to be asked by reporters at any press conference he gives. Ask a question outside of that, and prepare to never be invited to the white house again as a reporter. It's because he is too stupid to be able to answer questions on his own when the answers haven't been prepared before him.

pickarooney

Have you ever seen him do maths? Solve a Rubik's cube? Devise a plan for decreasing traffic congestion? Write a song? It's a bit simplistic to assume someone's a buffoon because he's not adept with words; there are many more facets to being intelligent. That said, I've never seen or heard him do anything to convince me he's a genius, but I wouldn't rule out him being fairly smart.

Moriarty

pete wrote:

Someone better tell the Washington Post so...



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A93-2004Dec14.html

That's odd, I could have sworn a guy was arrested for it a month or so after the letters started appearing.

*investigates*

Moriarty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attack

You are indeed right. My apologies.