Help!

Degsy

I bought a .22 on monday based on permission i'd obtained from two people to shoot on thier land(as per the law!),i found out today that one of them doesnt qualify as he is a land keeper rather than a land owner.Does anybody out there know a landowner who'll grant permission for the purposes of obtaining my certificate?I wont shoot on the land if they dont want me to!My number is <mod snip> cheers!
derek

Sparks

Where are you in the country Degsy?

Degsy

I live in north dublin..can you help?

Sparks

Well, it sounds like you'd be near enough to Fingal Rifle Club (they're in Balbriggan) if you want to do target shooting, there's also the Wilkinstown Rifle Club (they're four miles north of Navan, don't know if they're more convienent to you or not, but they shoot mostly air though there is some .22 training there), or if it's more bunny-scaring you're aiming at ('scuse the pun), there's also the regional game council, their contact details are on the NARGC website here.
Hope that helps. (If the Fingal club or the Wilkinstown club are more what you're looking for, PM me and I'll send you the contact details).

Oh, and I'm not fully sure on this, but did I hear that courtlough now has facilities for rifle shooting as well as shotgun? They're north dublin as well.

Degsy

Thanks for the info,i was aware of a couple of nrth dublin rifle clubs and i was i nthe one attatched to trinity college but mostly i want the gun for plinking the occasional rabbit or pigeon.Do you think it would be a good idea to cold-call on a couple of farmers?

Sparks

Degsy wrote:

Thanks for the info,i was aware of a couple of nrth dublin rifle clubs and i was i nthe one attatched to trinity college

Ah, an ex-DURC shooter When were you in the club?

but mostly i want the gun for plinking the occasional rabbit or pigeon.Do you think it would be a good idea to cold-call on a couple of farmers?

Don't hunt myself so I'm not sure of that. My first guess would be to call the local NARGC gun club - there are rather a few hunters in the forum though, they'd have a better idea - guys? Little help here?

Chipboard

Sparks wrote:

Oh, and I'm not fully sure on this, but did I hear that courtlough now has facilities for rifle shooting as well as shotgun? They're north dublin as well.

Thats true Sparks, but not for pistols.

Degsy, could you not ask the land keeper (I take it he is renting the land from the owner) to ask the owner to give you permission.

Rovi

Sparks wrote:

Degsy wrote:

but mostly i want the gun for plinking the occasional rabbit or pigeon.Do you think it would be a good idea to cold-call on a couple of farmers?

there are rather a few hunters in the forum though, they'd have a better idea - guys? Little help here?

With the best will in the world Degsy, and not doubting your bona-fides for a moment, I as a landowner wouldn’t give anyone (including you, sorry) permission to shoot on my land if I don’t know you personally, or if you weren’t introduced to me by someone I know and trust.

The reasoning goes something like this (from my point of view, anyhow)-
If someone wants a gun (shotgun, rifle, or handgun) for one or other of the ‘legitimate reasons’ that are currently accepted by the Guards, they by definition already have some sort of access to land for hunting/vermin control or are interested in/are members of a target shooting club.
Collecting, home/personal protection, ‘an interest in guns’, a desire to control the local feral cat population, etc, etc, are not (as far as I know!) acceptable to the Guards as reasons for issuing a licence.

So, if a stranger (to me) appears in my yard telling me that they were looking to get a gun and asking would I give them a letter of permission to shoot, I’m afraid I’d be refusing them

My concern would be that if they can’t come up with one of the ‘legitimate reasons’ above, they may want a gun for some other reason which might have consequences for me if they get into bother with the gun sometime in the future.

I absolutely accept that someone looking to hold up post offices or ‘enforce’ the debt collection side of their drug business is unlikely to be too concerned about the niceties of licensing the ‘tools of their trade.’
But, if someone I facilitated in getting a gun gets into trouble for shooting tin cans in their back garden in a built up area or for shooting rats on the local dump while there are other people about or for ventilating the neighbour’s dog that can’t be stopped sh1tting on the lawn, it’s MY name that’ll turn up in the investigation, and I’ll be trying to explain to the Guards why I gave permission to shoot to someone I only ever met once and about whom I have no knowledge whatsoever.

If(!) the PULSE system ever gets working properly, I also don’t want my name popping up as some sort of ‘permission to shoot’ rubber stamp.


Degsy, I realise that this isn’t exactly great news for you, but I think it’s a reasonable expectation of the reception you’ll probably get if you go cold calling on landowners.
I’m certainly not trying to discourage you entirely from giving cold calling a try, you might get lucky, particularly if you make your case in a reasonable way and present yourself as a responsible person (which I have no doubt you are!), but I think you’ll have a much better chance of success if you can make some sort of personal contact through a third party known to both yourself and the landowner, if you don’t know any landowners yourself.
Have a good think through your own circle of friends and relations though, you might be surprised by the contacts you already have.

Also, have the Guards told you that the one ‘good’ permission you already have is not adequate?
The number of permissions required seems to be fairly flexible, in that one with plenty of land is as good as a bunch of little ones.
How much is enough?……………………… That’s a tough one Entirely up to your local Superintendent, but the one you already have might do.

.

civdef

I can't think of any reason only one landowner wouldn't be sufficient, unless the amount of land wasn't big enough.

bernard93

Degsy,

Just for your info!

Fingal are not accepting any more new members for the foreseeable future (don’t know why) and the courlough range is for silhouette shooting, even though they have a great covered air rifle range out to about 50 yards but you cant shoot rimfire or centrefire on it(also don’t know why)

I should take up shot gunning as if you want to shoot a rifle around here you are seriously stuck for choices! :mad:

Bernard

Degsy

First let me thank everybody for thier contributions,i am a relative neophyte in this regard,especially as this is my first attempt to aquire a firearms licence.I can understand the concerns of somebody who would be cautious of providing permission to a stranger and that is duly noted,i have however,been shooting since i was 5 years of age,my father and uncles all had firearms and i am fully aware of the legal implications of using one in an irresponsible manner,to say nothing of the safety aspects of misuse.The problem is i simply dont know a second landowner!When i asked the guards about it they said i needed to obtain permission from TWO landowners,does anyone know if this is strictly enforced,or would one suffice?Thanks

civdef

How much acreage has the landowner who has given you permission?

Rovi

civdef wrote:

How much acreage has the landowner who has given you permission?

Yeah, the nice lady I spoke to in Parks and Wildlife told me that 100ac or so is plenty for them to issue a deer permit and that this would be acceptable to the Guards for issuing the licence.
And this is for a deer rifle too

I think this is something that's up to the local Superintendent, and I suppose that if the local lads tell you you need 2 landowners, you're probably gonna have to come up with 2 landowners

Another grey area that needs tidying! :mad:

.

civdef

It seems to me that some Guards are using the blanket number of landowners rule as a defacto character reference system. Of course blanket rules are illegal now.

When I started out shooting, I got letters from three landowners who had smallish fields, came to about 60 acres in total, which was fine as far as the local guards were concerned - this was for a .22lr.

Oh yeah, the area of who can give permission to shoot on rented/leased land is a complicated one. Generally sporting rights aren't given to a lease-holder, but they (or their agent) have the right to control vermin. Unless you were planning to shoot pheasants witht that rifle, you might still be in business.

Degsy

civdef wrote:

How much acreage has the landowner who has given you permission?

I think she has in the region of 36-37 acres..

civdef

You'll struggle so, particularly for a rifle. One strategy might be for the person who gave you permission to suggest you to others they know.

gouda

Degsy wrote:

I think she has in the region of 36-37 acres..

Should be plenty. I wouldn't worry about it. Considering that licences are issued to club members, and some clubs do not even have ranges and others have only about 1 acre, how could they refuse you when you have access to 36 acres? Sit tight, I would be very surprised if you are refused on grounds of insufficient land.

Degsy

gouda wrote:

Should be plenty. I wouldn't worry about it. Considering that licences are issued to club members, and some clubs do not even have ranges and others have only about 1 acre, how could they refuse you when you have access to 36 acres? Sit tight, I would be very surprised if you are refused on grounds of insufficient land.

I'll submit what i have and see what the guards say about it,i'll keep you all posted on any developments.This forum has been extremely helpfull and i'm gratefull to everybody for their help.

Degsy

Typically the whole thing has gone pear-shaped,the person who said they would allow me to shoot on thier land has withdrawn permission.Apparantly she discussed it with her(vegetarian!)sister who also owns the land and she said she doesnt want animals beinghunted,Fair enoug,i suppose but now i'm back to square one..help,anybody?

gouda

Degsy wrote:

Typically the whole thing has gone pear-shaped,the person who said they would allow me to shoot on thier land has withdrawn permission.Apparantly she discussed it with her(vegetarian!)sister who also owns the land and she said she doesnt want animals beinghunted,Fair enoug,i suppose but now i'm back to square one..help,anybody?

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