Web Hosting Forum

tom-thebox

As we are aware the Web Hosting forum was closed a period of time ago due to abuse, unprofessional behavior and general bickering from various web hosts over a period of time myself included.

At the time I would have to agree the closer was the right choice as the mods and founders of boards did not need the aggravation on their door steps. I would however point out that abusers of the board have been a lot more cautious in repeating such antics.

I do however feel it was an active forum which did bring value to users of boards.ie. I also feel any posts that use to go there now end up on the Webmaster forum, which proves my point that fellow hosts feel sorry for the actions that brought the Web Hosting forum to a closer and have learned to get a long I suppose you could call it.

I would ask the board.ie staff and mods, what would it take to even consider or talk about the reopening of the Web Hosting forum in the foreseeable future?

Of coarse things can not go back to the way they where, however I do feel people have learned from their mistakes.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

tom-thebox

merc wrote:

How could one not agree? Nice post Tom.

Thanks for the support Merc, much appreciated. I hope you are enjoying the festive season.

damnyanks

If its not going to be opened perhaps just remove it or merge it with webmaster / flash

tom-thebox

damnyanks wrote:

If its not going to be opened perhaps just remove it or merge it with webmaster / flash

That would also be an option the hosting questions normally land on the web master forum any how.

Maybe the moderators could be merged on the both boards too.

evilhomer

I agree that the web hosting board should be reopened.
the traffic ends up on the webmaster board instead.
however strict control over people pimping there own goods should be kept!

damnyanks

To be honest companies that did that on the forum really didn't help themselves. I know my opinion of a few Irish hosting companies dropped dramatically when I went through the forum.

tom-thebox

damnyanks wrote:

To be honest companies that did that on the forum really didn't help themselves. I know my opinion of a few Irish hosting companies dropped dramatically when I went through the forum.

I agree fully, what was an excellent open resource to get advice was turned into a flame fest.

However I do think it was a great resource and would ask the mod team to consider giving us hosts a second chance.

marco murphy

No excuse for bikerin is there?

Shrimp

Same.. I feel that it should be reopened as it is getting all dumped in the webmaster forum.. IMO..

Keyzer

This was before my boards time...
What was it?

Shrimp

Keyzer wrote:

This was before my boards time...
What was it?

Same.. but it would still be handy to have it back :rolleyes:

jmcc

But it would require clueful and ultimately ruthless adminning because the conditions that resulted in its closure still exist. And the competition among hosters has only increased. That said, having the forum open again may be a good thing.

The adminning of a reopened webhosting forum will present some problems. I had respect for Corinthian's handling of a number of sticky situations that developed in the webhosting forum but the hosting business is such a small pond that territorial spats are inevitable. What some would consider as acceptable would not be considered as acceptable by others. At the moment, I can't remember the name of the other mod on the old forum but I think I disagreed with some of his decisions a few times.

The Irish hosting business is not much bigger than 1000 hosters. Of these, hundreds are small hosters. The main people who tend to ask questions of a web hosting nature are often in this category or just clients of hosters. The webmaster forum is probably a better place. The potential audience for a web hosters forum is small - probably in the hundreds but there is that risk that it will turn into the same old pimpage, point scoring pratfest that the old webhosting forum was. Maybe it would keep some people occupied.

Regards...jmcc

damnyanks

Perhaps stick in a sub section concerning web hosting requests where only appointed posters may reply. E.g rep from such and such.

Might help curve some of the people whoring there business.

tom-thebox

damnyanks wrote:

Perhaps stick in a sub section concerning web hosting requests where only appointed posters may reply. E.g rep from such and such.

Might help curve some of the people whoring there business.

A good idea, also the rules have to be clearly defined if the rules are followed we should not run into the problems we have had in the past.

And if someone breaks a rule, ban him from the forum on the spot.

CuLT

I endorse this product and/or service.

Some great ideas here.

tom-thebox

CuLT wrote:

I endorse this product and/or service.

Some great ideas here.

Thanks for the support Cult.

steve-hosting36

Perhaps a hosting request area as a sub-forum of webdesign would do the job? Switching that forum on again would most likely be dangerous. The irish hosting 'industry' is very very small, and, as jmcc pointed out, in such a rarified atmosphere, competition tends to be cutthroat.

tom-thebox

Would a hosting request forum not make it even more competitive?

Steve you of all people who has been involved since 97 in bringing competitively priced internet solutions into a closed and over priced market should know there is a lot of misinformation out there.

I don’t know of any other open resource quite as active as boards, where everyday internet users can get information on hosting instead of being screwed at the end of the day for calling their teleco.

steve-hosting36

Well Tom, I have been involved in hosting since 1997, but I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make with the rest of your post? People can, and often do, post hosting requests on the net/comms, computers and webmaster area of boards.ie without issue or a return to the issues faced by boards due to the webhosting forum.

There are many excellent online fora for hosting specific issues, also frequented by both customers and hosts in Ireland alike - I recommend:

http://forum2.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=29 - UK Based
and of course,
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/

That said, it's up to the admins at the end of the day, so I'll say no more, lest even this thread degrade

CuLT

Personally, I'd prefer to use boards.ie if at all possible for most things; there's a general spirit of good will that most people try to preserve; if that can be brought to the web hosting forum once more, I'd feel better using that board as a frame of reference when I purchase a server package at some point.

There are many excellent online fora for hosting specific issues, also frequented by both customers and hosts in Ireland alike - I recommend:

http://forum2.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=29 - UK Based
and of course,
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/

That said, it's up to the admins at the end of the day, so I'll say no more, lest even this thread degrade

As for your point about there being other forums, it's invalidated by the fact that there are hundreds of mirror forums for almost every board on boards.ie; it doesn't stop them from being created, let alone have a large following.

tom-thebox

steve-hosting36 wrote:

but I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make with the rest of your post?

Hi Steve

My point was boards had a dedicated irish platform for users to help users seeking advice on hosting.

Users who have experience with irish hosts, moving from the likes of eircom, so on..

Fair enough if we think the web master or net comms boards are the place for web hosting issues can we put some sort of notice on the old hosting board to show this?

I do however think its a shame an active board is now gone and forgotten due to the fact professionals do not trust themselves to behave correctly.

I for one would love to see the hosting forum back in action.

jmcc

tom-thebox wrote:

Would a hosting request forum not make it even more competitive?

Not quite. It would be more a controlled localised conflict than the global war that was the old webhosting forum. A simple, continually updated FAQ listing the price lists for ordinary hosting accounts and colo/dedicated hosting for each hoster would be essential. The subforum would be limited to Irish hoster services. The non-Irish hosters (those not operating an Irish hosting business or selling significantly to the Irish market eg Networksolutions etc) would not be allowed to add to the pricing FAQ. Each hoster would be allowed to post one offer/update per month.

Steve you of all people who has been involved since 97 in bringing competitively priced internet solutions into a closed and over priced market should know there is a lot of misinformation out there.

All the hundreds of Irish hosters with less than 7 domains hosted claiming to be the biggest Irish hoster etc? Eircom reaming the SME customers who buy an all-in e-mail/internet access/hosting package? Is this a sign of detente between yourself and Steve Tom?

Eircom is just bleeding clients and has lost thousands over the past year. If anything, the Irish hosting business is going to get even more cutthroat over the next year as Eircom may no longer have a large retail hosting business by this time next year. I would like to see the majority of the Eircom SME clients moving to Irish hosters.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

tom-thebox wrote:

Users who have experience with irish hosts, moving from the likes of eircom, so on..

And all it takes is for one muppet hoster or one muppet ex-client with a grudge to cause libel problems. That was the core of the issue with old forum.

I do however think its a shame an active board is now gone and forgotten due to the fact professionals do not trust themselves to behave correctly.

It must be the season that is in it Tom. Irish hosters will act like hosters anywhere. The civility is just a veneer of respectability. Is it a case of good will to all or just a new sales drive?

I for one would love to see the hosting forum back in action.

It could be fun, especially when the disagreements start.

Regards...jmcc

flashcash5

Hi all,

It seems like i may be putting my foot in the wrong place but sure what the hell. Is this board still closed? If so, do my questions on web-hosting go to webmaster / flash section instead?
I just need some answers to specific questions and some information on trends in ireland & what companies have the best packages.
It's looking like the place was shut down partly because of people promoting their own organisations but if i was interseted in reading tonnes of literature & text, i wouldn't have come to boards.ie
Where oh where do i go, or even, should i bother asking these type of questions in fear of being sold something by someone 'offering advice'?

jmcc

flashcash5 wrote:

It seems like i may be putting my foot in the wrong place but sure what the hell. Is this board still closed?

It was closed due to muppetry and potential problems arising out of some posts and it seems to be closed still.

If so, do my questions on web-hosting go to webmaster / flash section instead?
I just need some answers to specific questions and some information on trends in ireland & what companies have the best packages.

Yes. It also depends on what trends you are looking for but I'm sure people could answer those questions in the webmaster forum.

Regards...jmcc

evilhomer

flashcash5 wrote:

Where oh where do i go, or even, should i bother asking these type of questions in fear of being sold something by someone 'offering advice'?

This really was the problem in the first place wasn't it, it needs to be clarified where you go to ask these questions.

As much as i would like to see the board reopened, i think that without
1) "prison style" administrators
2) some sort of agreement from the hosting companies not to get into a bidding war with each other over someone asking "where do i get hosting for this website i'm creating"
we will end up back were we started again with a pimpfest rather than actual advice!

Or

A solid sticky at the top of the webmaster board may be just as effective. with all the posts for the sticky being screened by an admin before being added to the sticky.

Questions not answered by the sticky could easily be handled in the webmaster forum as long as the volume is relatively low.

there the options as i see them

The Corinthian

Being, or having been, a moderator of said forum I suspect it would be appropriate for me to comment at this stage.

Contrary to what some have said, whoring for business was a fairly limited irritation. Most hosts tried to do so once, got slapped and then proceeded to behave themselves thereafter. Of course, they continued to promote their services, but at least in context of answering people’s queries.

The primary problem would arise as a result of often long-standing and petty rivalries between the hosts present. For example, a normal user, genuine or not, would complain about a hosting company, this would be followed by another user (invariably tied to a rival company) would throw in an inflammatory comment, and then all Hell would break lose. This was one of the reasons for the no tech support for any specific hosting company and “not a marketplace for negotiating deals” rules. Much of the reason that the Boards.ie Web Hosting forum was so prone to this, unlike sites like Web Hosting Talk, is that the Irish market is very small and everybody knows everybody else. Quite a few even have, or imagine they have, scores to settle with each other. As a result any excuse seemed to be used to score points off a rival, sometimes no excuse was needed and the hosting companies themselves would begin these flame wars through continuous trolling.

Of course, more important than the headache involved in moderating such a board, there were possible legal implications. Accusations were often made, many of which were inflammatory and potentially libellous. Considering that at least two of the regular posters on that board had already been to the High Court against each other, it was not an unreasonable concern. And before anyone decides to pretend they understand libel law and suggest to “make it a free for all as long as people agree to it”, let me point out that such a move would cover little or no protection from legal action to the posters, moderators or Boards Ltd.

The question is can Irish hosting companies behave like grown-ups? I have nothing but respect for them as individuals, or even as companies, but get them in a forum together and they’ll inevitably regress to behaviour more suitable to kindergarten. I’ve seen them do this in other forums and mailing lists, so it was not limited to the Boards experience. To paraphrase the vicomte de Valmont, “it’s beyond their control...”

Of course, they can all undertake to behave themselves, but what happens when (after perhaps a honeymoon period of a few weeks) one of them decides to stretch the rules? Back to zero tolerance moderation and / or open to litigation. And no one wants either the headaches or the liability attached to that.

And there lies the dilemma, and so far no one has been able to suggest a means of tackling it effectively.

mneylon

Re-opening the hosting board would be nice in some ways, but it would also open up a rather large "can of worms"

The Irish market is tiny and there will always be petty rivalry as a result of the size of the market ie. there isn't enough to go around

It is a pity that there isn't an Irish forum for discussing the industry for both suppliers and consumers, but any time anyone suggests setting something up there are always problems with regard to the objectivity or perceived lack of it.

jmcc

blacknight wrote:

The Irish market is tiny and there will always be petty rivalry as a result of the size of the market ie. there isn't enough to go around

And if you thought 2004 was bad wait until the demise of Eircom's and Esat's retail hosting really kicks in.

It is a pity that there isn't an Irish forum for discussing the industry for both suppliers and consumers, but any time anyone suggests setting something up there are always problems with regard to the objectivity or perceived lack of it.

One of the reasons that I never started a hosting forum on www.whoisireland.com was exactly because of the problem of objectivity. Any hosting forum dealing with a market as small as the Irish market (under a thousand hosters with approximately 450 or so hosting seven domains or less) faces the problem of hoster cannibalism. The smaller hosters rarely get a look-in as the bigger hosters begin to dominate things. This is almost exactly what happened with the hosting forum on boards.ie. It is not the fault of the moderators - it is just the nature of the beast.

Regards...jmcc

tom-thebox

jmcc wrote:

One of the reasons that I never started a hosting forum on www.whoisireland.com was exactly because of the problem of objectivity.

Meh thinks you would be a *ollox of a mod.






just kidding.