America Is Wierder than I thought

D-Generate · 11-03-2001 12:39pm #1

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=62837&pagenumber=1

How can these sick sick people justify that shoothing up a school is right.

Clintons Cat · 11-03-2001 5:22pm

just a thought,but why dont you ask em?

pepperkin · 11-03-2001 10:40pm

Unfortunately, I have known or talked to people very similar in that mindset...from all different states and countries...and it makes me wonder about the future of the human race as a whole. My motto is, "Sh*t happens. Sink or swim."
That's how I see it. If you're too weak to swim, then sink, but don't bring everything and everyone down with you!
Jeremys Evil Twin needs help. Maybe a wrecking ball dropped on his head. Why not, as his "evil Twins" won't miss him...
Not that I propose hurting the poor, innocent soul!
After all, in America, everyone is a victim, right?
Mr Smith who raped and murdered and then fingerpainted with bodily fluids of 16 coeds didn't MEAN to, he was just neglected as a child...
whatever.

Zaphod Beeblebrox · 11-03-2001 11:34pm

First, there's no such thing as overreacting when it comes to the Yanks. After all if they wanted to take over, or nuke, the world, they could do it without lifting a finger. If some people from Wales started talking like this, no one would care. But then most Welshmen don't have garages full of big guns.

Secondly... "Good for him!" ?????!!!!!
When I was at school I wasn't "teased" - I got the living **** kicked out of me on a regular basis. I didn't shoot anyone, and now I'm living pretty comfortably with a nice list of qualifications. I found out a few weeks ago that one of the morons who enjoyed hurting me is in jail for breaking into a jewellery shop (right in front of a CCTV as well) while another is still looking for a job after getting a grand total of 1 GCSE.

Finding that out gave me a hell of a lot more satisfaction than shooting them would have, especially as I'm not in jail for murder.

The "Evil Twin" can look forward to a big gun collection which he will use to shoot dangerous creatures like the cunning and vicious Moose, and will spend the rest of his life quoting from the Bible because his brain isn't capable of thought, blaming everything on "Damm Yirrupeans" and eventually dying lonely aged 49 with a Big Mac stuck in his throat. Which can only be a good thing for the world.
Sorry if that seemed a little harsh, but the Yanks are not my favourite people right now (or ever).

Clintons Cat · 12-03-2001 12:18am

After all if they wanted to take over, or nuke, the world, they could do it without lifting a finger.

well they might need to lift a finger to press the big red button,but since i doubt the yanks have installed it within beer can hurling range of jeremies couch i think az can sleep soundly tonight.

azezil · 12-03-2001 1:47am

OH MY GOD!!! sick freaks!!! now that put a chill down my spine to think ppl like that are in control of some of the deadliest weapons in the world!!!

"just because ur not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after u!"

Clintons Cat · 12-03-2001 1:58am

cause he is a troll and his comments should be treated as such.

and unless Jeremies Evil Twin is a psudonym for G Bush Jr i think you might be overreacting a little bit az

[This message has been edited by Clintons Cat (edited 11-03-2001).]

Coyote · 12-03-2001 3:44am

did you read that post by him ?
he is telling you a very real thing
that people get hurt and that the people in
charge do not try to stop it yea sure you hear about the one or two guys who shot up a
school but what about the 100's who kill them
selfs every year from people been bulyed.
you call him a troll he is not, he posted his
feeling on that board and mabey he is wrong to say he is not sorry for the death of the people, but if he had just killed him self like 100's of others would the people who drove him to his death have been even given out to, 99% chance no.
and a lot of people do make plans like that to kill people just 99.99999% never get hurt that much that they do it. but if you ever go you war or have your home wiped out then you will see that you will change more that you would thing you could. just becost you have never been pushed that far.
some people can take a lot more that others you do not know were your limit is till your there and you have to face it.
you can never tell if you have been pushed as far you can be and you never know what your going to do when you are pushed that far
what would it take to push you that far that killing others would not be that big a deal ? killing, rapeing of your mom, dad, sister, wife, kids the murder of all your race, color or reglion ?????

just feel sorry for all the people in it. the one pushed too far and the one's who were killed.

[This message has been edited by Coyote (edited 12-03-2001).]

Keeks · 12-03-2001 8:44am

I think ppl missed the whole point of his post. If u take out the bit about guns and shooting ppl u'll see it. He says that the authorities are not doing enough to help ppl. That his parents told him to come to them if he had problems but when he did they didn't listen and told to 'stop being silly' etc.

In a nutshell todays society is not solving the problem it creates. It is REACTIVE rather than being PROACTIVE towards social problems.

In this case we see that schools and [police authorities are trying to stop kids bring guns to school rather than trying to stop them picking them up in the first place.

and just to let u know, I think all Yanks are ****ed up anyway.

Panda · 12-03-2001 3:16pm

Originally posted by Keeks:
I think all Yanks are ****ed up anyway.

Indeeeeeed.

Shinji · 12-03-2001 4:44pm

"Good for you" is a bit strong, but the kid has a very real point.

What REALLY needs to be done is to take a close and hard look at the social pecking order in schools which praise sports and such activities over more scholastic activities, and to crack down HARD on hazing and teasing.

Too F*cking Right. You think kids get picked on and teased on this side of the water? Ireland and the UK are models of tolerant societies compared to the USA, and particularly to US schools. This is why the yanks are so desperate to find a scapegoat for the schools shootings; because it's not video games, it's not heavy metal, and it's not even, once you get down to it, guns; it's a basic, fundamental problem with the fabric of American society which is getting worse and worse the longer it is left to rot. And it IS getting worse; after Columbine, ridiculous "guidelines" were issued by schools authorities which are trying to get schools to crack down on kids who don't "fit in" or who have odd hobbies or whatever, and to get kids to shop their classmates to the authorities if they feel that they are unusual or don't fit in with social groupings. Great; lets not crack down on bullying, lets INSTITUTIONALISE it!

What an utterly f*cked up society.

Clintons Cat · 12-03-2001 9:26pm

did you read that post by him ?

Ok maybe i should have taken more time to explain what i meant.
If By Posting The Header the "School Shooters Are My Heros" he was making a statement of his personal veiws then fair enough.He is not a troll,his comments seem well thought out and his conclusion and reasoning seem valid if a little disturbing and worth discussing.
However i believe he titled his post in that manner in order to deliberately draw a negative and hostile reaction.This is why i consider him to be a troll.If he had titled the thread "I can understand where the shooters are coming from" then i would not be so sceptical about the nature of his post.To me it just seems a little too Marylin MansonMaybe i am just an old Cynic.

oh and having realised there is more than one page of posts i find this posted by JET

quote:

You seem to delight in disturbing others by forcing them to behold your pain, and you're certainly intelligent enough to pull it off.

I for one can understand the attraction of this course of action. It must be fun. I'd have to think that it would get old pretty quick though, and eventually one of your intelligence would move on to something else.

Correct, thanks, and correct again. Keep in mind, though, this little diversion to the nether regions of JET's soul was completely unintentional. But it did make for a very interesting day. JET

i rest my case

[This message has been edited by Clintons Cat (edited 12-03-2001).]

--Kaiser-- · 13-03-2001 2:18pm

That kid was bullied, no-one did anything, he was very depressed at being teased almost all his life, he shoots the bullies.
Its not the worse thing that could of happenend, you could argue they got what was coming to them (although i wouldnt)

Typically, idiotic americans are blaming metal, tv, video games, completely ignoring the fact the american teens are fu<ked up is because the entire society of america is tottaly fu<ked.C'est la vie.
Burn America Burn

pepperkin · 13-03-2001 4:48pm

*is feeling very unpopular right now, as she is american...*

I was THE kid to hate in school, all through my school years...in fact, it's why I dropped out. I got tired of being a scapegoat for everyone elses idiocy. I survived it.
Memories of having trash cans upended on my head (not clean ones, either) and the bus driver did nothing...of getting jumped by a girl who at the time seemed 8 feet tall and getting my face rearranged, and the school did nothing...oh, I remember.
And much more, definitely, much more.
Do you blame the schools, for doing nothing? Do you blame the parents, for raising such unattractive, pathetic offspring? Or do you blame society? Blame all three.
School shootings, bombs placed in community areas, car bombs. Blame all three.
On the other hand...
In some countries, a woman cannot practice her career (think Afghanistan) In some countries children steal their own food, or don't get any food. In some countries, children killed themselves to kill enemy soldiers (Vietnam).
Barbarism is not solely a product of the united states. It's just easy to see only one country when they are posted throughout the media, and other countries are touched on rarely or totally ignored.
Americans bring it on themselves by being the most incredibly pathetic, whiny, "gimmegimmegimme" economy, and flamboyent country. "Look at us! We're AMERICAN!" and this attitude rubs off on the kids, who bring it to new levels with their kids, and so on down the line.
America, through their "everyone is a victim" attitude and allowing unbelievable freedoms to those in the criminal justice system, has taught it's inhabitants to feel that they always have a reason to strike out, to act like children and get away with it. It wasn't only society, it wasn't only the schools/institutions, it wasn't only the parents.
It was people like Falwell who tried to press their views on everyone. It was people like Tipper Gore who again, decided her way was the ONLY right way and everyone else can **** off.
One of the things I love about this country is what it was founded on, which is no longer practiced...freedom of religion, freedom of expression. However, noone seems to catch on to the reality that personal freedom only goes as far as the next persons begins.
You have the right to practice whatever religion you like, but you do not have the right to press your views on others. You have the right to say whatever you like, but you cannot force others to believe it.
You have the right to feel like a pathetic loser, to feel picked on, to feel persecuted. But you do NOT have the right to start shooting at random to make your point.
Self control is vastly missing here, maturity is missing. You can't make other people be nice to you and to be honest you're being a selfish fool if you do expect to. What you have the right to do is GET OVER IT. Life goes on and quit whining because "someone picked on me, WAH!" Grow up and stop ****ing in your nappies.
I believe in standing up for yourself, that's an important aspect of the personality. However, if ones way of standing up for themselves is to make mass slaughter and bloodbath, then one needs to catch a serious clue.
With 4.5 billion people on the planet, there are more people alive right now than have ever collectively been alive in all of humankinds history. What that means, is that no one person has the right to consider him or herself the center of the universe and feel they have the right to play god. Too childish by half is anyone who feels they come first in the means of the world.
And theres my rather murky two cents on this. If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire, but don't feel you have the right to take everyone else down with you.

Canaboid · 13-03-2001 5:11pm

Originally posted by pepperkin:
*is feeling very unpopular right now, as she is american...*

S'alright, you're one of the good ones

--Kaiser-- · 13-03-2001 5:20pm

/me applaudes pepperkin

logic1 · 13-03-2001 5:46pm

One of the things I love about this country is what it was founded on, which is no longer practiced...freedom of religion, freedom of expression.

After they killed all the native Americans and drove them off their land?

Nice one.

.logic.

Coyote · 13-03-2001 6:33pm

the problem is a number of things
the bigger the school the worse things get
and schools in the US are very big.

you have guns with in easy reach of people
who are not mental able to deal wiht things.

there trying to blame it on things other than
what is the problem, it's not TV, games or
even shock guns. there trying to pass the
blame, that is what is ****ing people off
this boy was not alone he did not just want
to go around killing people people in that
school pushed him beond his limit,

I'm not saying he was right to do what he did
but people trying to pass the blame and let
the school get away with out any blame is
wrong,

in other contreys people do not have as easy
access to guns, so even if they did hate
there class m8's then can not do any thing
as media grabing like shoting them.

in most other places people try to under
stand it, like the russins saying about
the clinton thing, they said they would be
happey there leader was so strong.
and the french say they would not like a
leader who did not have a missress.

it's the media that **** people off about the
US they get in a uproar about things.
yes things like this happen befor and will
but hey just do it to sell papers and get up
the TV rateings

Coyote

pepperkin · 13-03-2001 7:46pm

logic1, Oh what happened to the native americans is another one of my soapboxes. I'm part NA, and I still hold a grudge against the idiots that overcame and murdered the NA people. I completely agree with you on that score and I think have posted as such. I'm not talking however about the ACTIONS, but the Constitution of the US, and all the other "founding ideas".
So while I agree that the NA people were treated abominably (and the US was definitely built on blood,) in this case I'm not speaking of the disgusting acts that were perpetrated here.
So, you're right. But so am I.

Coyote...you've got it in one. People are stupid, collectively, and the more you collect together the stupider they get, hence the US...
And then of course, there's the parents who aren't bright enough to take the guns from their childrens hands....the rednecks, who feel guns should be as common as a cold, and the morons who believe in beat them or kill them...
And the newspapers who only want the most sensaational stories don't help. I refuse to watch the news because I don't need that kind of depression in my day!

--Kaiser-- · 14-03-2001 11:37am

Coyote...you've got it in one. People are stupid, collectively, and the more you collect together the stupider they get, hence the US...

I remember a few lines from a terry pretchett book which gave a formula about the intelligence of a mob,its something like this:
the IQ of the least intelligent person in the mob, divided by the number of people in the mob.

seems fitting

Bob the Unlucky Octopus · 15-03-2001 6:45pm

Well well...a lot of unpleasentness flying about in this thread I must say...

I'd have to agree with Shinji's post there, but only in a qualified manner. It's a bit of a gross generalization to say the American society is falling apart at the seams, but I think I know what he's getting at. *Middle* American society is falling apart, particularly in parts of the South. A lot of people think of the US as being populated by gun-toting rednecks, believing their nation exists at the center of the universe in a rather Aristotlic way...well that's not quite true I'm glad to say. There are several places back home (where I'm from for a start) where there is little or no crime, people generally respect one another, and school shootings just wouldn't happen.

Since everyone else in this post is finger-pointing I figure I might as well jump right in. I blame the government- that's right...the government. And not just the US government...governments in general. We don't even need to look across the Atlantic for apathetic policy-making...just look at the legislative policies for alcohol in the UK and Ireland. Over a third of violent crime in the UK is alcohol related and more than half of road accidents are as well. The same is true of Ireland...although the proportion of violent crime is closer to a fourth. Yet these governments do virtually nothing to tackle alcohol abuse. Much in the same way that our government REFUSES to tackle societal correction in unstable youths. US society is decent enough- but the government that controls the fabric of that society is disjointed and apathetic. European governments take childrens' social development *very* seriously indeed, my government couldn't care less

Which is why, imho these school shootings are now taking place. An entire generation of neglecting hazing, abuse, intolerance and ignorance in America's youth has finally come home to roost

Let's just hope we can take a lesson from European governments about how to handle our disaffected youth soon- or Columbine will become a leading case in a long line of violent outbursts (as some feel has already happened

)

Bob the Unlucky Octopus
=Errarre Humanum Est=

[This message has been edited by Bob the Unlucky Octopus (edited 15-03-2001).]

Clintons Cat · 16-03-2001 11:55pm

Dont get me wrong i found JET fascinating in a morbid way,that guy can hold a crowd enthralled and an arguement together as well as anyone on the net.I am impressed 100%

i find the anti bullying arguements compelling and drew me back to my own childhood experiences and my status today.
Dear Bullies
It would be convienient to blame my failiures and failings upon the taunts of playground bullies,but by doing so, do i not empower my tormentors a power they do not deserve by right or privillage?I elevate them beyond their rightful position as spitfilled bags of petty hate.
Those who stood by and did nothing or worse snickered,did they do so out of approval or fear of also being persecuted,i do not know. if i ask them today would they not fiegn ignorance of my torment out of uncomfortable politeness?
Therefore Should i consider then that my Bullies should die for their crime however great the injustice to myself?
Should those who condoned or ignored my torment be judged equally guilty and thus not innocent victims of my homocidal hatred?
should i consider my life to be irrevocably scarred and beyond redemption or worth and terminate it regardless of the loss i will leave in the lifes of those who know and care for me?

The Answer Is No
I survived all you could throw at me an i laugh at your attempts to drag me down,hold me back and sour this unique experience called life.
Should i meet you in the street i shall not turn the other cheek i shall not cross the road to avoid you,nor i shall not acknowledge your existance,for you are nothing,you have no hold over me,i am not you and have no desire to become as you.
You have no power over me anymore.

Marc

"Sometimes i wished that they would beat me so i would have scars to show for my pain."

Clintons Cat · 17-03-2001 12:06am

damn suddenly i feel cold.

RopeDrink · 17-03-2001 7:16pm

A delicate topic this...

The mind is a frail frail thing, and taking this into account, even the coldest evil acts have to have both side studied thouroughly...

You can understand where the lad is coming from, wether you agree or not falls down to morals.

I wholeheartedly agree with Bob here...
You can blame the teachers, Parents etc, but the body with the overall biggest influence is the Government...

Hardly any Government actions are there to aid the smaller picture...

Who does a person like Jeremy's Evil Twin have to turn to at the end of the day!?

America Is Wierder than I thought

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