Help! Drop out dilemma

Jonny Arson

Well I have to be bluntly honest I'm getting absolutely nowhere out here in UCD. I made a tough decision to stay and I kinda regret it and don't regret it. The college will never ever suit me in terms of its size, I really f**king hate the place. I also hate the f**king people out here (aimed mostly in particular at 1st year Arts students)

Yes I know that last sentence is worded very strongly but I'm just been honest. I have all but given up now of trying to get to know people out here. I've bended over backwards in attempts to make friends out here but sadly I've got f**k all back. Not my problem however, its people's loss if they don't want to bother with me. I've reached a conclusion that I'll be better of just not f**king bothering with anyone coz if I keep on trying with people and get rejected all the time it will just make me feel even worse than I am now.

There is a terrible athmosphere within first year Arts. People are generally fake, snobby and all cliquey and I just don't want to be like that. I'm genuine, real, gsoh and most importantly of all a decent nice guy but sadly it appears these character traits go against you out here. I don't have this kind of problem with people outside the confinds of Belfield so I know where the problem lies. I'm not saying all people in Arts are like that but sadly from the people I've encountered this generally appears to be the case.

I'm not going to bother with clubs/societies or anyone in general anymore. I'm just going to have to resign myself to been a so called 'outsider' for the remainder of the year if it has to be the case but what do the 2 years after that hold? I feel that I would be better of concentrating on my studies rather than my social life out here. I don't know but I'm not feeling positive. If people had a bit more soul to them maybe I could overcome my hatred of the size of the place but it sadly wont.

I know some of you reading this will think this is the most negative and arrogant post you've ever read but I'm just been honest and realistic with myself because if you've tried like me you can't be postitive.

So heres to the next two and a half years of outsiderdom if that is even a word!

orangerooster

Most of my friends are not in 1st arts like me. I get what you're saying about the cliques etc among us and it can be a bit suckey.Just get talking to people in you're tutorials more or maybe I just got lucky with the people in my groups I dunno. Surely though just giving up on everyone out here is a bad idea?

Sangre

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

I'm not going to bother with clubs/societies or anyone in general anymore. I'm just going to have to resign myself to been a so called 'outsider' for the remainder of the year if it has to be the case but what do the 2 years after that hold?

You have to be noticed to be an outsider.

Tobias Greeshman

Dont let the whole college/university experience get you down, go join a couple of clubs and societies and get to know a few people.

I remember after 2nd year of my course I wanted to drop out and work, then got talked into 3rd year which I sorta loved and hated and then in 4th year really f***ing hated the course and didn't see myself ending up in a job similar to the course, actually so did most of the class.

It would be foolish not to stick it out till the end of the year anyway. Just talk to a few people, you'll be fine!

Mr.Nice Guy

I can relate to what you're saying,Zane.I think you should use your feelings to your advantage.Right now you're p*ssed off with UCD so why not just go for broke and make a really big effort?
I've not enjoyed the social aspect of UCD myself.I've not made any real friends here,just acquaintances and I find alot of the UCD ladies quite intimidating but my philosophy right now is F*ck it.I'm going to talk to everyone tomorrow(especially the ladies ) and see what happens.
Today I hardly spoke to anybody and I'm getting pretty fed up with that.I've got nothing left to lose at this stage so I'm going to make a real effort tomorrow.I usually don't like those strangers who strike up conversations with you but tomorrow I'm going to be just like that.

Jonny Arson

I really do appreciate you guys advising me to push myself more and not to give up on my UCD experience but I've done everything I possibly can with people out here. It has got to the stage where I just can't be arsed with people out here anymore. You know I have made efforts to get talking to people but sadly everyone who I've encountered out here just aren't interested in building friendships. This is really effecting me as I'm constantly worrying ''is this all something to do with me?'', ''whats wrong with me?'' etc. My confidence in myself has taken the most almighty dip since I've started and if I keep on making efforts with the people and keep on getting f**k all back, I will completely crash and burn confidence wise. I honestly feel I'll get more out of keeping to myself as I wont be constantly worrying about others but if someone does make an effort towards me of course I'll be polite and friendly because thats me I dont have my head up my arse like so many others out here, but sadly its unlikely that will ever happen.

Mr.Nice Guy

Don't throw in the towel yet,man.Don't let a couple of arrogant self-absorbed people tarnish your view of everybody.After all if you have bad experiences with some women you can't just give up on women altogether.It's the same with making friends here.
I know alot of people here at UCD take arrogance to a whole new level(D4 types from my experience,not that I'm saying they're all like this)but you have to just stay true to yourself.
You're not the only one who finds this place frustrating,believe me.

Slash/ED

I'm finding the whole place frustrating myself but I'm not really letting it bother me too much, it's the fact I'm going to fail my exams in style that I'm worried about!

rainbow kirby

Just try and study. You're gonna be grand.
(kettle. pot. black)

tribulus

come over to the science building! seriously. by comparison to arts ther'es very few snobbs/a**holes/b1tches etc.

imo it's a lot more relaxed atmosphere and theres a lot more quiet nerdy types who would probably be glad to have someone start a conversation with them

uberwolf

tribulus wrote:

imo it's a lot more relaxed atmosphere and theres a lot more quiet nerdy types who would probably be glad to have someone start a conversation with them

an advertisement for science if I ever read one!!

Jonny Arson

Thats it F**K UCD F**K Arts people, I've had F**KING enough. Today I came in with my attitude that I will let people talk to me instead but nice guy me can't help but attempt to start conversations etc. and what do I get back f**k all yet again.

I had two tutorials today yet again in a last hope I say hello to people etc. and no one makes any effort to carry on a conversation.... its me doing all the f**king talking. I must have a sign over my head saying ''Do not reply to a word this w**ker says.'' F**k the people. If someone had given me a machine gun today I would have happily blown the f**king heads of all of those c*nts.

For god sake it was my f**king birthday today and I just found myself all on my own. There is something seriously weird with the people out here. The soundest people I know out here are the people who I went to school with so I obviously I was very lucky with regards to school I went to and I must be recieving all of this sh*t out here as a comupance. Before any of you try to think what I must be like, I'm not one of these geeky types. I always get on well with people, dress cool, loads of interests and I'm considered by the ladies as a good looking bloke. So whats my problem?

My birthday resolution is that I'm not making any communication with anyone out here anymore. No more effort thats it.

As Pete Doherty sings .... Fuu**ck foreeeeeverrrrr!

uberwolf

em, sorry to hear that. You don't want to end one of those strange desperate people.

For the best part, sports clubs are your best bet. Or write for one of the newspapers.

whatsgoin'on

There are a lot of sports clubs that don't really care if you're a beginner or its youre first time there and so a lot of people stop going after a few weeks. This is why a lot of sports clubs have low numbers.

From my experience and talking to others the best clubs for making new people feel welcome and involved is the softball and rifle clubs.
These clubs go so out of their way to keep new people that you can't help but feel good. The older members and the other new members get everyone involved in the organising of events, so youget to know people quickly.
In essence you meet good friends, who will enjoy your company.

To get involved with these clubs lookmat their websites.
www.eteamz.com/ucdsoftball
www.ucd.ie/rifle/


Also the softball club is having a fundraising event The Ultamite Icebreaker tonight in the forum bar at 8. Basically the club is hosting a speed dating night. Its being hosted by Fred Cooke and Siobhan Gildea. Siobhan only took up the sport in October. It shows how involved new members get.
Everyone is Invited

Mr.Nice Guy

Sorry to hear that Zane.As for me,I said I would make an effort with people today and I did.I struck up a conversation with one girl until her friends came and I had to move for them.Turns out they were D4 types so I didn't mind too much.
For my last lecture I struck up a convo with this nice reserved girl but I didn't feel she was my type and I am looking for some attractive girls to work my magic on.(girls to shoot me down,in other words!)V-Day's coming after all!

I don't give a sh*t if people act mean or ignorant towards me.I can't affect other people.As Anais Nin said,"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" so I'm going to start conversations with everybody and if they don't like it,tough sh*t.

m1ke

So many people have the same experience of 1st arts, it's a shame and by no means a reflection on you or them - just a collection of different things that hinder proper socialization.

Your classes will get smaller in 2nd and 3rd year as you drop a subject and other people drop out and repeat (as much as 40% in some cases). Also the optional modules in 2nd and 3rd year tend to have smaller class sizes. If you really enjoy the course content[forget about job prospects] then it's probably worth staying as things will definitely get better. If you don't enjoy the course work then you should definitely think about other options before the Feb deadline.

Agent Smith

i'm a first year arts student in TCD. i'll be honest, 90% of my class are between 10-40 years older then me, after freshers week i serriously thought of dropping out.

what i did to meet people my own age?
i joined societys, now i know most people join loads on freshers week, and so did i.
the only person i went to school with and went to trinity, desided to defer for a year.

so one day, as i was buying a bus ticket in the su shop, i saw a poster for the sci-fi soc's genreal meeting. i took the plunge, and desided to go,

now i know loads of people.
i came from a very small school, i completely understand where your coming from, i was in the same boat, but since comitting myself to sci-fi, i've done things i never though of doing, met people who i never would have talked to, chatted up girls who i never would have had the confiendence to even talk to before.

why not host a ucd board beer's?

or better still, A dublin college Beers...

QualderWahl

Hi Zane,

I have been reading your drop-out dilemma post with some interest over the last few days. It might be worthwhile if I summarised my own UCD ARTS experience and let you make of it what you will.

Firstly, I am 28, an old guy :-). I started in UCD ARTS in 1994 and finally finished in 1998. Like you, before I went to UCD, I always considered myself to be a reasonably friendly, sociable individual and free of pretension. I come from a country background, therefore the "culture-shock" of Arts was magnified manifold in my case. In my first year, I made repeated efforts to get to know people in my lectures and tutorials, always attempting to strike up a conversation to determine if we had anything in common. Occasionally, I would click with someone (usually somebody else from outside Dublin) but unfortunately the huge scale of UCD meant that I rarely saw them subsequently and hence negated the possibility of forming any sort of friendship. I can honestly say that my first year 1994-1995 was the most miserable, lonely year of my life.

Second year did not herald any major improvement in my situation. However, I was studying German and the class size dropped to about 100 and I did manage to make some acquaintances in my tutorial groups with whom I occasionally went for lunch or the odd pint. I also joined one of the sports clubs and made further casual friendships through the various outings etc.. However, I should stress that none of these were life-long, deep friendships but were at least a slight improvement on first year. My third year was spent on an Erasmus year in University in Germany. It was here that I finally learned that there wasn't something wrong with me that inhibited me from making friends. In Germany, I met countless people of various nationalities and so many friends, many of whom I still visit seven years later. It really opened my eyes to the narrow-minded, arrogant "D4" culture that pervades in UCD ARTS. I returned for my fourth year and just decided to concentrate on my studies and get the hell out of UCD with a decent qualification. I ended up with a first class honours degree by using the feelings of isolation to my advantage.

Upon completion of my degree, I went to a Munster university to do a post-grad course and again the difference was immeasurable. I made seven or eight really good friends in just one year studying in this university and had the best craic of my life. We spent the entire year boozing, having fun and finally cramming for the exams :-). I am still in touch with all of these people. I have since been working for the last four years and am glad to report that work colleagues also make good friends with none of the attitude I encountered in ARTS.

I am really sad to hear that ARTS still has the dreadful atmosphere that was there in the mid-late '90s. I just thought I would tell you my story to let you know that you are certainly not alone and that things really will improve for you. Don't let the pretentious, D4 culture get you down. Trust me, I know precisely how difficult it can be to spend the entire day alone. My advice for what it is worth is the following:

(i) Stick with it until the end of first year and pass your exams. Re-evaluate if you think that things will improve substantially for you in second year. (They didn't in my case).

(ii) Alternatively, drop-out and re-commence a similar course in a smaller, more intimate college, possibly outside Dublin. I guarantee you will not come across the ARTS atmosphere anywhere else. To this day, I regret not dropping out after first year and changing to UL to study Business and German.

It really is up to you. You have my sympathies and I wish you well in whatever you decide. Sorry for the novel-like proportions of this post :-)

Cheers,

J.

Mr.Nice Guy

Hey QualderWahl,I know your post wasn't addressed to me but I found it very useful and encouraging.

Cheers.

QualderWahl

You're welcome Mr Nice Guy. I was pretty shocked to hear that ARTS hasn't changed over the course of the years. There are really nice people studying ARTS, the difficulty is finding them amongst the masses

Ironically, two of my colleagues in my current job also studied ARTS in UCD around the same time as myself and also had a similar experience to that described by Zane and yourself. I suppose you just have to keeping plugging away keep your eye on the bigger picture. (Failing that, at least you have plenty of nice D4 chicks to ogle every day )

rainbow kirby

I'm so glad science isn't like that...

tribulus

rainbow kirby I'm so glad science isn't like that...

i hear ya

i'll repeat myself any arts people (nice guy, zane...) give the science block a try, i guarantee you'll find a better atmosphere and don't think you'll be the odd one out doing arts, there's regularly people from arts/business/medicine over here for stats/comp sci/accounting etc.

who says you have to hang around in a cetain building just cus that's where your course is based

Red Alert

yeah the science building's usually good craic, especially in the days of that computer room on the 3rd floor!

in terms of the whole making friends thing, engineering's probably easier to make friends in as a whole, as you spend a lot of time with the people on your course especially as you go up the years.

rainbow kirby

Which is now (basically) G15, on the ground floor. Same people in their slightly older incarnations. And it's back open tomorrow with new computers! (though if I can't install Firefox Computer Services get PAIN.) And 219 was great back in the day.

Jonny Arson

Again words cannot describe how you guys kind words of encouragement mean to me.

Bottom line is my UCD experience is a complete nightmare and I'm extremely unhappy out here. I hate the size of Belfield which I will never like but the one thing I thought would be kick ass about this place, the social side, has been non-existent.

I have been truly cursed upon with the people I've met from clubs to my subjects and to my tutorials. I'm have become increasingly isolate out here as time has progressed. Some days out here, like today, I did not even communicate with anyone. The people who I already knew doing other courses are all having a ball so I hardly ever see them and one of my friends after a few weeks out here started ignoring me for no reasonl. Now my closest friend out here from school who is doing my course hardly ever comes in so I find myself an increasing amount of the time on my own. I have made a few aquaintances in my time here, they would be friendly and all that but they all have their own friends and are not bothered in building any friendships so they're really the same as everyone else out here.

Jaysus, if you said to me last September I would have had trouble making friends out here after 4 weeks, I would have laughed in your face. If you said I would have the same problem after 4 months, I would have seriously reccomended you for physhiatric treatment.

There is a terrible snobby culture in 1st Arts. Some people have said it is a D4 thing. I do agree that there is a stuck upness with the majority of the D4/southside brigade but there are quite alot of country folk who are just as bad with the whole ''up there own arse'' mentality. Alot of people out here, especially the private school rich kids who already know lots of people, are on some ego trip. Before I came out here I did here of a cliquey elite arrogant environment out in UCD but I nowhere near thought it would be this bad. For instance when I browse around my lectures, you will always see the same people sitting with each other. In most cases you will see the people who were sitting with each other at the beggining of the year still sitting with each other. In my tutorials the only people talking to each other are the people who alredy knew each other or on any occasion I have got talking to someone in a tutorial, the next time you see them they won't even acknowledge you. The people who you meet who you don't do their subjects don't want to know you because you don't do their subjects. I've also tried the talking to randomers tactic but that has not worked at all for me. It seems no one at all is bothered in building any friendships or even try to get to know any new people. I'm very reluctant to join any new clubs/socs at this late stage, my sole aim is to pass my exams.

There is a course out in DIT that I put down on my CAO form before the Feb 1st deadline that I'm really tempted by. It is a course with only about 40 people in a smaller environment and it is a course that I nearly chose to do last year. However the drawbacks are that I will have to pay around 4000euros in fees (would be much better spent on alcohol ) and the possibility of not liking the course. However the only thing I can say for certain, it won't have anywhere near the horrible athmosphere that exists in 1st year Arts.

What I'm going to do now is concentrate on passing my exams in May so I can chill out during the summer and reascess my future. My choices pretty much are.
(1) If I think I would be happier in that other course I'll go for it.
(2) If I feel that I could survive the possibility of isolation for the next 2 years I'll stick with UCD.
(3) Do something different with my life and get away from education for a year by working or going abroad.

Well I have to do my best to avoid becoming unhappy over the next few months. Hopefully some good randomer will save my day very soon.

Everyone, your help has been hugely appreciated,

Alan (a.k.a. Zane from MTV2)

Slash/ED

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

I'm have become increasingly isolate out here as time has progressed. Some days out here, like today, I did not even communicate with anyone. The people who I already knew doing other courses are all having a ball so I hardly ever see them and one of my friends after a few weeks out here started ignoring me for no reasonl. Now my closest friend out here from school who is doing my course hardly ever comes in so I find myself an increasing amount of the time on my own. I have made a few aquaintances in my time here, they would be friendly and all that but they all have their own friends and are not bothered in building any friendships so they're really the same as everyone else out here.

What courses are they doing, any of them in UCD or in other colleges? How hard is it to transfer over to them? I've no idea how this kind of thing works, does it really set you back the guts of four grand if you drop out and apply to another college?

Sangre

Im sorry to burst your bubble that these people from the 'southside/d4' being completely stuck-up and cliquey is the cause of your problems. Well its not.
Ever thought about the fact these people are actually from the area, therefore their friends go to UCD and they already have loads of friends.
Maybe they're intimidated by the large amount of people and stick to people they know, maybe they feel pointless in making new friends aswell?

Seriously people (not just you Zane), you need to get over this.

Jonny Arson

Slash/ED wrote:

What courses are they doing, any of them in UCD or in other colleges? How hard is it to transfer over to them? I've no idea how this kind of thing works, does it really set you back the guts of four grand if you drop out and apply to another college?

Well I know a few people doing Commerce and they are having a ball because their course is far more intimate. I know for a fact alot of events are organised for their groups such a class parties and trips so this creates a good atmosphere through bonding. In reality it would be in my wildest dreams to switch to something like Commerce but I just about made the points for Arts so it would take the most almighty drop in points by about 100 if I was to get something like that but we could live in hope!

The other course in DIT would be really suited to me as it is a town planning course so since I already study Geography it could possibly be quite ideal for me.

Sangre wrote:

Im sorry to burst your bubble that these people from the 'southside/d4' being completely stuck-up and cliquey is the cause of your problems. Well its not.
Ever thought about the fact these people are actually from the area, therefore their friends go to UCD and they already have loads of friends.
Maybe they're intimidated by the large amount of people and stick to people they know, maybe they feel pointless in making new friends aswell?

Seriously people (not just you Zane), you need to get over this.

Well Sangre you have obviously had your head buried in the sand in your time here in UCD or you are one of these D4/southside people yourself because the snobery from D4/southside people is rife in my course.

From what I have encountered and many other people have encountered (people who are current and ex UCD students) most D4 people are the most stuck up individuals on this island - FACT. OK just because people have loads of friends out here already does not mean that they should make no communication whatsoever with any other people. I presume you are also saying that people who already lots of friends out here should spend the rest of their lives stuck with the same friends? Your theory is a load of BS and you know that.

I see it from lectures to tutorials to the clubs, the D4 crew always stick together and it is not because they are afraid of their surroundings, they just couldn't be arsed getting to know from outside their territory and want to remain in their exclusive cliques.

Mr.Nice Guy

Sangre wrote:

Maybe they're intimidated by the large amount of people and stick to people they know, maybe they feel pointless in making new friends aswell?

Seriously people (not just you Zane), you need to get over this.

The issue isn't about them being in groups,it's about them criticising,and in some cases,ignoring those outside their group.That's just rudeness.
There is an arrogance in alot of D4 types that is,quite frankly,extraordinary.

Chinafoot

i have to say i agree with Zane here.....although i wouldnt tar them all with the same brush but the majority in my experience are quite snobby and very very cliquey.

i understand your point about them being possibly daunted also but having attempted to make conversation in the past i found that once they asked me where i was from attitudes changed......one girl actually said to me "is it true you people have horses in your garden?"....she was deadly serious too! ridiculous!

and like i said i know you cant say that everyone from the D4 area is like that but when you're in a new college, especially one as big and impersonal as UCD, you do tend to get disheartened when you try a few times to be friendly and get nowhere.

i made some good mates last year and to be honest they're almost all from the northside.

but thats just me.