M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

It's the same everywhere. Older, more affluent people pulling up the ladders before them. It can be seen with every proposed housing or major public transport scheme in the country. It's just that the group here are better resourced than some of the other groups.

It's purely a delaying tactic anyway. If this does get overturned TII/Cork County Council can plough the M28 through Fernhill Golf Club instead and there's your M28

Their sole aim is to keep it out of Bloomfield/Maryborough, when the quarry came into it that was just another excuse to “join forces” so to speak, Harrington,O’Dea,Kelleher,Collins couldn’t give a fúck about the quarry. Regardless if the quarry argument wins out in the end can you see the court of appeal or Supreme Court telling ABP it can’t go via the N28?

danny004

I think all of the above posts are right and I believe this process is changing anyway but I do believe your objection should be solely related to within a certain radius of your property interest and any objections to the wider environment including habitual areas should only be allowed by recognised bodies with strict rules of recognition including scrutiny of funding ,affiliation to more global bodies etc.

kub

danny004 wrote: »

Im sure this isnt some star wars emperor or drug barons or property developers funding this more likely just wealthier people who want to protect the status quo around their properties who by the way are also the "the Irish Public" ,its a bunch of objectors playing the system really well and any other speculation about who they are ,how the are funded and their values that people believe they should have towards the common good doesn't really add anything

Well if their status quo is the current situation there at rush hours, then that says a lot about their take on things.

Ludo

From my posts on this topic, I guess people probably assume I am against the road going ahead. I am not...It has to be done and I would not object or sign any petition. However, I do understand the concerns some people have though.

If they succeded in the appeal and it was blocked, I wouldn't lose any sleep for the selfish reasons I outline now:

I do also believe this road will make the traffic situation worse at Bloomfield (particularly in the mornings heading onto the N40).

It will also dramatically increase the traffic according to the report on the road where I live (Coach Hill) and there no plans to widen the pinch point on this road . There is no footpath here also (or plans for one) with kids walking to the primary school further up the road in Foxwood.
Currently 2 cars cannot pass each other (unless they are both very small cars) and there are regular crashes when they try it at speed. It is only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt there and yet they are knowingly increasing traffic on it without addressing the known issues.

marno21

Ludo wrote: »

From my posts on this topic, I guess people probably assume I am against the road going ahead. I am not...It has to be done and I would not object or sign any petition. However, I do understand the concerns some people have though.

If they succeded in the appeal and it was blocked, I wouldn't lose any sleep for the selfish reasons I outline now:

I do also believe this road will make the traffic situation worse at Bloomfield (particularly in the mornings heading onto the N40).

It will also dramatically increase the traffic according to the report on the road where I live (Coach Hill) and there no plans to widen the pinch point on this road . There is no footpath here also (or plans for one) with kids walking to the primary school further up the road in Foxwood.
Currently 2 cars cannot pass each other (unless they are both very small cars) and there are regular crashes when they try it at speed. It is only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt there and yet they are knowingly increasing traffic on it without addressing the known issues.

Just as a matter of interest, what is your reasoning for the increase on traffic on Coach Hill post M28? I have done a decent amount of peak time commuting in the area but I've always kept west of the N28 if avoiding it and I am unfamiliar with the area east of the N28.

Ludo

marno21 wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, what is your reasoning for the increase on traffic on Coach Hill post M28? I have done a decent amount of peak time commuting in the area but I've always kept west of the N28 if avoiding it and I am unfamiliar with the area east of the N28.

To get to Carrigaline/Ringaskiddy you currently have to go into Douglas to get onto to the old Carrigaline Road or go along the coast through Passage and Monkstown. Now there will be another option to go up Coach Hill towards top of Maryborough Hill and get on around there. Actually, you can get that way to Carrigaline already but by a country road rather than a motorway so not as appealing to do it currently.

That EIS report or whatever it was called pointed out this increase also. I think it may have been the only road in the area to actually see an increase...certainly the largest increase anyway.

I can't imagine it will increase much in fairness as it doesn't seem worth it but any increase on that road shoudlbe avoided until it is widened.

Hibernicis

Ludo wrote: »

It will also dramatically increase the traffic according to the report on the road where I live (Coach Hill) and there no plans to widen the pinch point on this road . There is no footpath here also (or plans for one) with kids walking to the primary school further up the road in Foxwood.
Currently 2 cars cannot pass each other (unless they are both very small cars) and there are regular crashes when they try it at speed. It is only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt there and yet they are knowingly increasing traffic on it without addressing the known issues.

Your absolutely right about the dangers relating to that pinch point, and general risk to pedestrians in particular resulting from the lack of decent footpaths for most of Coach Hill. I’ve asked Council Engineers and Councillors about this on numerous occasions and the answer has always been that they don't have the money to do this and to do Clarkes Hill at the same time, and that Clarkes Hill was being prioritised. For a while in 2018 it looked as though Clarkes Hill would proceed apace, but that went on the back burner around the time that development of SLR12 was judged to be premature and the improved access was no longer needed. There is no doubt that if Clarke’s Hill was to be upgraded it would take some of the pressure off Coach Hill, but your point is valid - Coach Hill will see an increase in traffic heading to the M28 that it is ill equipped to handle. And irrespective of any of the above Coach Hill urgently needs footpaths, either on the hill itself or a joined up pedestrian route through Lower and Upper Kensington.

kub

danny004 wrote: »

you cant accuse them of lack of tenacity but they are appealing.

From the steering group facebook page

DECISION OF THE HIGH COURT JUDGMENT
OF 20TH DECEMBER 2019.

Following an indepth and comprehensive review of the recent high court judgement to refuse relief by way of granting a Judicial review of the M28 APB EIA we have been advised by our legal team to seek a certificate from the high court to appeal its decision of the 20th December 2019. Following careful consideration of the advice given we have decided to give instruction to our legal team to pursue an appeal to the Court of Appeal and / or to petition the Supreme Court.

Our decision to seek leave to appeal will initially take place this coming Thursday the 23rd January 2020 at the High Court in Dublin.

Gerard Harrington
Chairman
M28 Steering group

As it is 21:26 now on 23rd Janurary, just wondering has anyone heard of anything new on this ?

ianobrien

kub wrote: »

As it is 21:26 now on 23rd Janurary, just wondering has anyone heard of anything new on this ?

Here's hoping that no news is good news, from a commuter that has to tackle the N28 (and have spent regularly 45 minutes to get from Bloomfield to Ringaskiddy)

Cork Trucker

ianobrien wrote: »

Here's hoping that no news is good news, from a commuter that has to tackle the N28 (and have spent regularly 45 minutes to get from Bloomfield to Ringaskiddy)

I used to drive it 4/5 days a weeks a few times a day in an artic until not that long ago, the road would put years on you.

Limerick74

www.Courts.ie states the case is adjourned until 11/02/2020

mikeym

More delays :rolleyes:

The M28 will never be built in my lifetime and im in my Thirties.

Please dont vote for Buttimer in Cork South Central!

SeanW

Hibernicis wrote: »

I disagree strongly. I think we are entitled to know who is backing this. It is having a substantial impact on a lot of people's lives and so is a matter of public interest. Those who are impacted should know who they are up against. It was certainly never the intention of the planning/judicial system that key players could hide behind a public front. That would appear to be exactly what is happening in this case.

Silent participation is an important right in a republican democracy, in some cases it may be the only way to participate if your views are not widely shared. For example, if you are a conservative/Republican in the United States and you work in Silicon Valley, you definitely want to hide that and may choose to keep silent and maybe donate money to conservative organisations instead. Likewise if you were LGBT in Ireland during the mid-20th century, you might have chosen to donate to organisations looking to broaden society's perspective while not letting it be known that you were taking such action or that you felt you had cause to do so.

A far better remedy would be for the courts to start awarding costs against objectors in these types of cases. We would need judges to prove that objectors can cover both their costs and the costs of the State/TII/CCs and then award them full costs in cases of spurious litigation, with all guarantees called in, fully enforced by the Sheriff if needs be. Keep doing it until spurious litigators get the message.

Hibernicis

Limerick74 wrote: »

www.Courts.ie states the case is adjourned until 11/02/2020

http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/ wasn’t available when I checked last night. It is now showing the following:

Date 23/01/2020
List ADV MR JUSTICE MAC GRATH
Position 18
Result Adjourned - no details available
Note costs

Date 12/03/2020
List ADV MR JUSTICE MAC GRATH
Position 0
Result XX
Note

danny004

Hibernicis wrote: »

http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/ wasn’t available when I checked last night. It is now showing the following:

Date 23/01/2020
List ADV MR JUSTICE MAC GRATH
Position 18
Result Adjourned - no details available
Note costs

Date 12/03/2020
List ADV MR JUSTICE MAC GRATH
Position 0
Result XX
Note

Disastrous ,the months just ebb away ,although I dont expect it will make much difference this time of year with it being election season.
Im wondering is the judge now considering their application for an appeal

LLewellen Farquarson

Every time I open this thread, it opens on the first page

Which is dated 3/1/2005

With the line.
This one is the proposed N28 cork to ringaskiddy project. This imo needs to be done asap for the sake of industry and carrigaline.

15 years later!!!!!!!! Here we are.

I'm beginning to believe Mikeym is right above.

Cork Trucker

Strictly speaking i know this is way off topic, Mods i hope you will excuse me on this one occasion as it involves Jerry Buttimer and we know his position on the M28 in general.

https://twitter.com/CorkTruckDriver/status/1220724006145482752?s=20

Cork Trucker

Is the lack of an M28 the reason for losing this ferry to Rosslare

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Major-Cork-ferry-route-cancelled-4055dc59-d23f-404a-bc04-3cc3ab6f0f0b-ds

Ludo

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Is the lack of an M28 the reason for losing this ferry to Rosslare

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Major-Cork-ferry-route-cancelled-4055dc59-d23f-404a-bc04-3cc3ab6f0f0b-ds

No, it is not the reason.

Cork Trucker

Ludo wrote: »

No, it is not the reason.

It didn’t help matters

Ludo

Cork Trucker wrote: »

It didn’t help matters

Wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference IMHO. There is a lot more to this than 10 miles of a motorway...or lack thereof.

kub

Meanwhile as and from today, Rosslare is 30 mins closer to Cork thanks to a new bridge on the N25.

While the main road to the main commercial port in the 2nd largest harbour in the world is still serviced by a main road which in parts is not as wide as some of the opposers driveways

If only we had political clout like they have in the south east of the country.

marno21

Ludo wrote: »

Wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference IMHO. There is a lot more to this than 10 miles of a motorway...or lack thereof.

Absolutely. The M28 had no impact on this decision

Brittany Ferries said when they launched the service in 2018 it was for a trial 2 year window and now upon review the freight volumes using the service aren’t sufficient enough to make it viable

kub

marno21 wrote: »

Absolutely. The M28 had no impact on this decision

Brittany Ferries said when they launched the service in 2018 it was for a trial 2 year window and now upon review the freight volumes using the service aren’t sufficient enough to make it viable

I wonder, as truckers are only too familiar with the state of the roads in this country and traffic issues.
Have many decided it was easier to take a ferry to France from Dublin rather than having to face the backlog approaching Dunkettle from the M8 side.
Then the traffic on the N40, when we have our usual fender benders which result in ridiculous delays and then having to travel down a rural borreen which is backed up with traffic quite a lot
The motorway network in France must seem a lot more appealing.

hans aus dtschl

kub wrote: »

I wonder, as truckers are only too familiar with the state of the roads in this country and traffic issues.
Have many decided it was easier to take a ferry to France from Dublin rather than having to face the backlog approaching Dunkettle from the M8 side.
Then the traffic on the N40, when we have our usual fender benders which result in ridiculous delays and then having to travel down a rural borreen which is backed up with traffic quite a lot
The motorway network in France must seem a lot more appealing.

No I don't think so, purely because I can't imagine people preferring Dublin based on traffic elsewhere on the island. However bad the congestion gets in Cork - and it does get very bad - it gets worse in Dublin.

ianobrien

I've been on the ferry to France out of Dublin, Rosslare and Cork and have spoken to plenty truckers. The truckers much prefer Rosslare because it's easy to predict the travel time to the port. Most hate the M50 as you can't reliably predict the travel times and the tunnel/South Ring rd/Carr's Hill can be unpredictable for travel times as well. Also, quite a lot of the distribution centres are based around Dublin/Kildare. That's only about a reliable 2 hours from Rosslare where Ringaskiddy is 4 to 5 hours.

ianobrien

Also, the port in Santander is right in the middle of town whereas the port in Bilbao is outside of town and there's an motorway/dual carriageway right to the port entrance

kub

ianobrien wrote: »

Also, the port in Santander is right in the middle of town whereas the port in Bilbao is outside of town and there's an motorway/dual carriageway right to the port entrance

Imagine that, a motorway directly to a port entrance, i wish we could have that in Ringaskiddy.

sondagefaux

From the Irish Examiner article:

The ferry company said hauliers have told them that Rosslare, given its proximity to Dublin and the east coast road network, is a preferred option.

Hauliers operating on the European mainland have also said that Bilbao is more attuned to freight traffic and has easier transport links into Europe.

Based on that, it seems the roads to the ports are of crucial importance to the hauliers.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-loses-out-as-ferry-firm-moves-spain-route-to-rosslare-978456.html

Ludo

Proximity to Dublin would be a bigger factor. No doubt the road would help, but I don't think it would have been a deciding factor by any means.
Any way you cut it, Rosslare is closer to Dublin. If Dublin port had the capacity the ferry would probably go directly there.

marno21

The New Ross bypass is a massive gain for Rosslare, but the Wexford bypass, the N24/N25, the N11 north of Wicklow Town are all bottlenecks on the 2 routes into Rosslare.

It's important to remember that the roads leading to the N28 from all areas except Dublin are pants too. Only the M8 qualifies as acceptable and the M8 leads directly to another port with UK and European sailings.

If the Port of Cork was accessible from places that don't have their own ports it might become more popular. I have no doubt that an M20 would do more for Port of Cork sailings than an M28.

annfield1978

danny004 wrote: »

Disastrous ,the months just ebb away ,although I dont expect it will make much difference this time of year with it being election season.
Im wondering is the judge now considering their application for an appeal

What is the reference codes for this case to find in on the courts website, not able to find it based on the info above

Who is the plaintiff/ defendant?

Hibernicis

annfield1978 wrote: »

What is the reference codes for this case to find in on the courts website, not able to find it based on the info above

Who is the plaintiff/ defendant?

I documented the search steps here:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111944212&postcount=652

Current status is that it was adjourned on 23/01/2020 and is listed for 12/03/2020

Cork Trucker

Not related to the M28 as such, but it does involve Jerry Buttimer who is backing the Steering Group.

https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/1226093551458684929?s=20

spacetweek

No evidence it's related, but interesting nonetheless.

Cork Trucker

spacetweek wrote: »

No evidence it's related, but interesting nonetheless.

Correct.

Hibernicis

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Not related to the M28 as such, but it does involve Jerry Buttimer who is backing the Steering Group.

https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/1226093551458684929?s=20

Thanks for posting that. Despicable behaviour. He was off my list because of his support for the Steering Group but having seen that I’ll give him a preference, albeit a low one.

Jim Gazebo

Hibernicis wrote: »

Thanks for posting that. Despicable behaviour. He was off my list because of his support for the Steering Group but having seen that I’ll give him a preference, albeit a low one.

So because someone threw something through his window he's now a better candidate? Get off the stage

Cork Trucker

Nothing about it on the steering group page, I’d have expected them to stand up for their man to say the least

AugustusMinimus

Buttimer polling 6%. Justice.

Ludo

As I just posted in the Cork City forum thread about CSC when this was brought up also...no one cares enough about this issue for it to factor into their decision as to who to vote for to any large degree except for a small few heavily invested people.
This is a settled issue as far as polotocians are concerned now and is in the hands of the courts. Buttimer getting elected or not will not make the slightest differece to the road getting built.

cjpm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Buttimer polling 6%. Justice.

Latest is 4.6%

Delighted!!

He was a strong backer of the steering group. The people that use the current N28 didn’t forget it!

Cork Trucker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Buttimer polling 6%. Justice.

As I said to Ludo on the other thread, these “10,000” people didn’t materialise. It’s not a political issue, just a handful of so and so’s in the steering group

Ludo

Cork Trucker wrote: »

As I said to Ludo on the other thread, these “10,000” people didn’t materialise. It’s not a political issue, just a handful of so and so’s in the steering group

Did anyone ever believe that number?

Cork Trucker

Ludo wrote: »

Did anyone ever believe that number?

Only if they were smoking the funny stuff

AugustusMinimus

Ludo wrote: »

Did anyone ever believe that number?

It was widely reported by the press. Traffic is a huge issue for those living in Carrigaline. I doubt it would have helped Buttimer if people knew how much of a snake he’s been on the issue.

marno21

Jerry Buttimer got 2828 first preference votes.

The irony.

cjpm

marno21 wrote: »

Jerry Buttimer got 2828 first preference votes.

The irony.

I would have thought that the 10,000 people that the steering group represented would have voted for Jerry???

kub

cjpm wrote: »

I would have thought that the 10,000 people that the steering group represented would have voted for Jerry???

They did, just reality stuck its oar in and well that was that and puff the mystical 10,000 just were never in existence.

Jim Gazebo

kub wrote: »

They did, just reality stuck its oar in and well that was that and puff the mystical 10,000 just were never in existence.

It was like the 10000 decided to travel down there this morning 😭 the traffic 😣