M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

Chris_5339762

I know this area quite well and the weaving problems coming off the N28 onto the N40 are quite severe. Its an interesting solution, and I think it might just work.

AugustusMinimus

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I know this area quite well and the weaving problems coming off the N28 onto the N40 are quite severe. Its an interesting solution, and I think it might just work.

As do I. This scheme and the Dunkettle Interchange scheme are going to cause SRR chaos.

Things are bad enough going westward over the Douglas flyover in the mornings. Traffic queues on both the SRR and the N28.

The additional flow of traffic will cause huge traffic jams. The only solution will be widening the Douglas flyover to 3 lanes. And that's hugely cost prohibitive.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

As do I. This scheme and the Dunkettle Interchange scheme are going to cause SRR chaos.

Things are bad enough going westward over the Douglas flyover in the mornings. Traffic queues on both the SRR and the N28.

The additional flow of traffic will cause huge traffic jams. The only solution will be widening the Douglas flyover to 3 lanes. And that's hugely cost prohibitive.

The rate at which freeflow M28, M8 and N25 traffic approach Douglas westbound will increase so much when these schemes are done. The tunnel and Douglas flyover will become serious bottlenecks

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

The rate at which freeflow M28, M8 and N25 traffic approach Douglas westbound will increase so much when these schemes are done. The tunnel and Douglas flyover will become serious bottlenecks

Sarsfield and Bandon opening have dramatically increased tailbacks travelling eastbound over the Douglas flyover.

One obvious solution would be an M28 to N27 link road to send airport traffic up the M28. Won't happen.

Victor

Traffic management?

Toll the bridge between Douglas and Mahon?

marno21

Positive reaction to M28 development

Evening Echo wrote:

UPDATED plans for one of Cork’s most important infrastructural projects have been welcomed by residents on the south of the city.
A two-day public consultation regarding the M28 motorway to Ringaskiddy is currently underway.

Full article: http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/positive-reaction-m28-development/1972997/

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

Positive reaction to M28 development



Full article: http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/positive-reaction-m28-development/1972997/

The Echo described the link road through Maryborough Hill as illogical. What? The new 600m link road is a mad solution.

AugustusMinimus

Victor wrote: »

Traffic management?

Toll the bridge between Douglas and Mahon?

Politically improbable I'd say.

marno21

Victor wrote: »

Traffic management?

Toll the bridge between Douglas and Mahon?

No realistic alternative route in place that wouldn't cause gridlock.

mikeym

Motorway service area in Ringaskiddy is a surprise, I wonder will it include a shop and restaurant?

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

No realistic alternative route in place that wouldn't cause gridlock.

Huge issue with east - west traffic routes in the city.

There's a few very close to the city centre. After that, the old dump blocks a huge chunk of land, meaning the next route is the SRR.

The last is the road through Grange. This road is already burdened with traffic and has inadequate links to both the N27 and N28 at either end. (Carr's Hill junction will be part of N27 link though.

This lack of routes leads to the Douglas flyover being the most heavily trafficked tarmac in Cork. More than even the tunnel. Way more.

Linking the N27 to the new M28 would take all tunnel - airport traffic off the flyover and the kinsale roundabout. I've been told by a Cork Co Co engineer that this is a long term vision. Sadly, there is no suitable junction in the M28 plans to allow for this.

hytrogen

mikeym wrote:

Motorway service area in Ringaskiddy is a surprise, I wonder will it include a shop and restaurant?

Can't beat that burger & a pint for a tenner in the Ferryboat inn for a wet lunch though!

Victor

mikeym wrote: »

Motorway service area in Ringaskiddy is a surprise, I wonder will it include a shop and restaurant?

I suspect the description will be larger than the reality.

marno21

Victor wrote: »

I suspect the description will be larger than the reality.

The document said a rest area with toilets, showers etc and possible shop and fuel facilties.

hytrogen

marno21 wrote:

The document said a rest area with toilets, showers etc and possible shop and fuel facilties.

But sure they could built those in the port facilities for the ro-ro ferry traffic. Although many truckers prefer freshening up onboard the ships as they're a little less communal

Carawaystick

So the nra have no MSA's built from Cork to Dublin, but are building one between Cork and Ringaskiddy?!

moyners

Carawaystick wrote: »

So the nra have no MSA's built from Cork to Dublin, but are building one between Cork and Ringaskiddy?!

Their thinking has changed (or has been made to change) since the Cork Dublin motorway was built. Rightly so IMHO

Ludo

Carawaystick wrote: »

So the nra have no MSA's built from Cork to Dublin, but are building one between Cork and Ringaskiddy?!

Purely to do with the fact that it is a port/container facility at Ringaskiddy so there is a need for a parking area for trucks as they will be waiting around for pick-ups and will need some kind of facilities.

hytrogen wrote: »

But sure they could built those in the port facilities for the ro-ro ferry traffic. Although many truckers prefer freshening up onboard the ships as they're a little less communal

It isn't really a ro-ro port though. The trucks wont be going on the ships really as it will be a container port more so that ro-ro.

hytrogen

Ludo wrote:

It isn't really a ro-ro port though. The trucks wont be going on the ships really as it will be a container port more so that ro-ro.

True only when the Brittany ferries or the Julia ran to the continent. But I meant also for the car carriers as well

Carawaystick

Ludo wrote: »

Purely to do with the fact that it is a port/container facility at Ringaskiddy so there is a need for a parking area for trucks as they will be waiting around for pick-ups and will need some kind of facilities.

Is that not for the Port to implement? The port is a commercial company and should provide facilities for its clients, not the taxpayers giving the company a subsidy(over and above the good access route)

Ludo

You would think so...yes. But the port isn't a private company as far as I know so I guess the money all comes from the same place at the end of the day. Could be completely wrong about that of course as I am guessing.

marno21

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is that not for the Port to implement? The port is a commercial company and should provide facilities for its clients, not the taxpayers giving the company a subsidy(over and above the good access route)

Having a public 'MSA' on the M28 for everyone to access would be more justified.

One is planned for the N69/new Foynes road too.

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

Having a public 'MSA' on the M28 for everyone to access would be more justified.

One is planned for the N69/new Foynes road too.

When large numbers of trucks are expected, such as near ports, MSAs are useful - just look at the torn up ground around petrol stations along the Naas dual c. for example, where unlawful truck parking is a problem.

Carawaystick

marno21 wrote: »

Having a public 'MSA' on the M28 for everyone to access would be more justified.

One is planned for the N69/new Foynes road too.

Having a public msa on the M8 would be even better justified...

The port of Cork company is a private company with 2 shareholders, and it paid those 2 shareholders a dividend of half a million according to its last published accounts.

L1011

Carawaystick wrote: »

The port of Cork company is a private company with 2 shareholders, and it paid those 2 shareholders a dividend of half a million according to its last published accounts.

Its two shareholders are the Department of Transport and the Minister for Finance!

Limited Company does not mean privately held. The dividend was to the exchequer.

Nemanrio

Has anyone seen the new fencing that has gone up at the port in Ringaskiddy? What is it for? Looks quite vulgar tbh.

moyners

Nemanrio wrote: »

Has anyone seen the new fencing that has gone up at the port in Ringaskiddy? What is it for? Looks quite vulgar tbh.

It's part of the expansion to screen the new internal road. I'd imagine it's to improve security and also give some noise protection for the residents. It is quite stark looking alright.

Nemanrio

moyners wrote: »

It's part of the expansion to screen the new internal road. I'd imagine it's to improve security and also give some noise protection for the residents. It is quite stark looking alright.

Why would they want to screen the internal road?

moyners

Nemanrio wrote: »

Why would they want to screen the internal road?

Because it's supposed to be a inside a secure area? I visited the port in Porto and they've stacked containers because resident were complaining about the visual and noise impact (I didn't see how looking at the side of containers was much better). We also got a tour of their security centre and I remember thinking that the Port in Cork was light-years behind - looks like they're trying to bring it up to modern standards.

Nemanrio

moyners wrote: »

Because it's supposed to be a inside a secure area? I visited the port in Porto and they've stacked containers because resident were complaining about the visual and noise impact (I didn't see how looking at the side of containers was much better). We also got a tour of their security centre and I remember thinking that the Port in Cork was light-years behind - looks like they're trying to bring it up to modern standards.

I remember many years ago you could drive into the deep water berth for a look. I was with my Dad (who has a interest in ships). Miss being able to go in tbh.

marno21

I emailed Simon Coveney in relation to the Dunkettle Interchange & M28 projects and this is the response I received from Paschal Donohue.

Paschal Donohue/DTTAS wrote:

At present, TII is assessing how best to progress national projects included in the transport element of the Capital Plan, including the N8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange and the N28 Cork-Ringaskiddy scheme. The timeframe for progressing individiual projects will be decided once that process is completed.

In the interim I understand TII has allocated a total €1m to the N28 Cork-Ringaskiddy scheme in 2016 which will facilitate the planning process which is currently underway

AugustusMinimus

Poster campaign warning of chronic traffic problems in Douglas if the Maryborough slip is closed.

Never seen such nonsense and scaremongering.

This scheme should dramatically improve things.

marno21

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/residents-object-ringaskiddy-proposals/2358488/

Oh dear.

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/residents-object-ringaskiddy-proposals/2358488/

Oh dear.

Utterly clueless.

spacetweek

There's been so many changes and updates to updates in this scheme that I'd be surprised if any of the residents really understood how traffic will flow through the areas now.

mikeym

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/macroom-bypass-and-ringaskiddy-road-on-back-burner-409798.html

Work will not commence on a Macroom bypass or new Cork-Ringaskiddy road until at least 2022, as priority is being given to upgrading the Dunkettle/Jack Lynch Tunnel interchange.
Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) officials told a Cork County Council delegation that while the Macroom and Ringaskiddy roads were in the capital investment programme (2016-2021), funding had not been allocated and TII had been advised that “expenditure will not ramp up until 2020/2021”.

They said the Dunkettle upgrade was the top priority and TII intended to appoint a contractor in 2018, with a view to work commencing in 2019 or 2020. TII said work on both the Macroom and Ringsaskiddy roads would start sometime after 2021.

TII officials advised any political pressure county councillors could exert to accelerate a budgets increase would be appreciated.

marno21

Sinn Fein's Donnchadh O Laoghaire (Cork South Central) brought up the M28 during the topical issues slot in the Dail last Tuesday, for anyone interested: https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2016-07-19a.358

The most important road project at present in the region, and they can't even come up with a start date for it. The lack of interest in a project which would yield several times its initial outlay in returns/economic growth and they can't even be arsed building this, let alone large scale projects such as the M20/N22 dualling/N25 dualling. Plenty of money for *cough* other roads *cough* of course.

No recent updates on the project website since either. Perhaps the crew doing the work have realised they have several years to proceed through the planning process and have taken it handy for a bit.

mikeym

They can find the money to fund a pointless 9th ship for the Wavy Navy but when it comes to building a much needed motorway it gets put on hold.

6 Factories in the Ringaskiddy area, 15,000 living in Carrigaline, constant traffic jams on a narrow Carrs Hill on both directions.

So much for all the promises when Fine Gael were looking for votes.

marno21

The project website at www.n28cork-ringaskiddy.com has been updated.

There are documents on the homepage but I'm not sure if these are new, regarding the Carrs Hill Interchange and a project information leaflet.

One thing I have seen is that the speed limit on the length of the road will be 100km/h.

The following are expected to be published by the year end:

* The final scheme details
* Motorway order
* Environmental Impact Statement (EIS)

If funded, this should be well able for a late 2018/early 2019 start.

Carawaystick

marno21 wrote: »

One thing I have seen is that the speed limit on the length of the road will be 100km/h.

Ah Cork, where the motorways are 100kmh, and the non motorways are 120

spacetweek

Carawaystick wrote: »

Ah Cork, where the motorways are 100kmh, and the non motorways are 120

The speed limits for road types aren't hard and fast rules! They must take local factors into account.

blindsider

Carawaystick wrote: »

Ah Cork, where the motorways are 100kmh, and the non motorways are 120

Has the speed limit on the M50 changed, or is it still 100kmh? What about the N2 from the M50 to Ashbourne? Is that not 120kph?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.42086,-6.3263117,3a,75y,320.85h,77.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4cyBbDTFHAchvQJsNGiNHg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Perhaps you should have a read:

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/upload/general/Guide_Speed_Limits_Mar_2015.pdf

especially p. 40.

Carawaystick

blindsider wrote: »

Has the speed limit on the M50 changed, or is it still 100kmh?

Some is 120, some is 50, some is 80, some is 100

blindsider wrote: »

What about the N2 from the M50 to Ashbourne? Is that not 120kph?

Some is some isn't.

Maybe I'll put explict sarcasm tags on my posts for the fun police in future.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect if we're going to build a new motorway in a greenfield site to replace the existing 100 limit road, that a 120 limit would apply.

blindsider

Carawaystick wrote: »

Some is 120, some is 50, some is 80, some is 100
Some is some isn't.

Maybe I'll put explict sarcasm tags on my posts for the fun police in future.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect if we're going to build a new motorway in a greenfield site to replace the existing 100 limit road, that a 120 limit would apply.

:rolleyes: Whatever keeps you happy.


As Spacetweek said yesterday, and, as is clearly explained in the doc I linked to, speed-limits must take local factors into account.

Speed-limits on a motor-way are decided upon by the NRA, not locally in Cork.

Perhaps we could now let this thread get back to being informative and useful.....

gerogerigegege

meeting between the nra and local resident groups on the 10th. not a public event.

marno21

gerogerigegege wrote: »

meeting between the nra and local resident groups on the 10th. not a public event.

What's the issue now?

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

What's the issue now?

The local resident groups have done nothing but make a complete balls of this.

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

The local resident groups have done nothing but make a complete balls of this.

Spot on.

I haven't seen any reason for this meeting. There has been no further updates recently for these NIMBYs to discuss

gerogerigegege

marno21 wrote: »

What's the issue now?

the residents of the South side of the city are worried about the destruction of parts of where they live. The noise pollution, air pollution, sound pollution etc.
hopefully this won't go ahead.

spacetweek

gerogerigegege wrote: »

the residents of the South side of the city are worried about the destruction of parts of where they live. The noise pollution, air pollution, sound pollution etc.
hopefully this won't go ahead.

This road will enhance the area they live, reduce noise, and reduce pollution due to removing traffic from residential areas.