M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

Cork Trucker

Nothing about trucks exploding I notice

betistuc

That Irish Times article mentions that 9.5 million car journeys take place on the N28 every year.( according to the steering group) That's 26,000 a day if you include week ends, bank holidays , workers annual holidays and Easter/Christmas. Exclude these and 26,000 goes higher, justification for the motorway in itself . And also according to the steering group this figure will rise to almost 66,000 journeys after construction. Even more justification !!!

Chris_5339762

Aontachtoir wrote: »

I think you're being a bit hard on TII. Civil servants don't have a magic money tree to shake. Nor do the government, to be fair. I'm sure the relevant people are aware that the Douglas flyover is a challenge.

I don't think they are really. I've been banging on about it for ages but as far as I know there are NO plans for widening the Douglas viaduct at all, nor is anyone even investigating it.

kub

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/group-challenging-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-to-consider-appealing-court-ruling-1.4133888

The Irish Times as usual with the free PR for infrastructural objections full of items of questionable legitimacy.

I hope that this is the last that we hear of these down right liars.
I only read the start of that article as I could feel my blood pressure beginning to rise and my anger emerge.

Have this shower even considered that even if their down right ridiculous suggestion of rerouting the proposed M28 away from their homes ( ie The Mulcon Valley), that traffic would still continue to use the Mulcon Valley rather than their ridiculous suggestion as it would be a shorter journey in most cases and the dangers of same ?

Just as an example of more of their bluff here in the last paragraph;
( I read the full article after I calmed down )

The Southern Ring Road already experiences major peak time congestion with traffic jams from the Jack Lynch Tunnel to the Kinsale Road Roundabout and the new motorway would only add rather than alleviate this congestion.

They forgot to mention there of course that the upgrade of Dunkettle will go a very long way in removing that traffic.
Bluffers and down right liars is all they are.

kub

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Maybe these things have been considered and the future planning approach is to solve the problems we have funding to solve now, then solve the other problems later.

Would you prefer nothing is done until every problem is going to be solved in one hit but ignoring the fact that that level of funding is not going to be made available?

Of course I would not prefer that nothing is done until every problem is solved, that is silly because nothing would ever be done then.


This typical piece meal approach is what I am referring too.

marno21

betistuc wrote: »

That Irish Times article mentions that 9.5 million car journeys take place on the N28 every year.( according to the steering group) That's 26,000 a day if you include week ends, bank holidays , workers annual holidays and Easter/Christmas. Exclude these and 26,000 goes higher, justification for the motorway in itself . And also according to the steering group this figure will rise to almost 66,000 journeys after construction. Even more justification !!!

At present, the N28 at Bloomfield (between Rochestown jn and N40 merge) carries roughly 17 million vehicles per year. Carrs Hill is approx 9.5 million.

I would expect an immediate jump in traffic when the M28 opens as traffic moves to the M28 from Donnybrook Hill, Coach Hill, Clarkes Hill, Maryborough Hill and/or the Ferry.

mikeym

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Fallen-trees-lead-to-Cork-traffic-delays-13b6213b-5e66-4dc6-9d6f-8ab6d62efed5-ds

This happened this morning leading to major delays on Carrs Hill which lead to more traffic on the Maryborough Hill.

But a certain minority are only worried about the value of their precious properties on a certain exclusive road.

The bloody noxious gases argument is stupid when in the future we will all be driving more environmentally friendly cars.

neddynasty

kub wrote: »

I hope that this is the last that we hear of these down right liars.

From what I've been told, from someone who has been at a few of the M28 Steering Group meetings, you might get your wish. Supposedly there is approx €4k left in the fund and they don't know how to distribute it back to those who contributed as no receipts were given out. One possibility is they give it to charity. Also, the committee heading the group have resigned. Doesn't appear there is an appetite to continue the objection further but you never know.

Cork Trucker

neddynasty wrote: »

From what I've been told, from someone who has been at a few of the M28 Steering Group meetings, you might get your wish. Supposedly there is approx €4k left in the fund and they don't know how to distribute it back to those who contributed as no receipts were given out. One possibility is they give it to charity. Also, the committee heading the group have resigned. Doesn't appear there is an appetite to continue the objection further but you never know.

If that is true then it is welcome news, given the costs involved in any further legal action and the need to raise those funds i do not think those who donated the last tranche of cash will be so keen to repeat it given they were unsuccessful. As for the €4k, giving it to a charity or indeed charities is the best course of action. Any appeal needs to be lodged by Thursday week as far as i know, just say they were to seek an appeal, because this is a whole new territory are they required to stump up a security deposit of sorts in advance for both their costs and that of ABP/CCC? No activity on their Facebook page since the judgement.

AugustusMinimus

Sounds like the funds just aren’t there. Have to wonder just how many are actually funding these objections. A hell of a lot less than 11,000 I feel.

Cork Trucker

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Sounds like the funds just aren’t there. Have to wonder just how many are actually funding these objections. A hell of a lot less than 11,000 I feel.

I concur with you on that. of those who turned up at their fundraiser in RPH, i know indirectly of one person who donated €200, just say there was 10,000 who backed their campaigned and each donated that same amount each, the grand total would come to €2,000,000, or even if the same magic number of people donated a tenner, that's 100k, those who they claim to represent aren't backing them where it matters to take this case, in the bank account. Roll on the M28

kub

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I concur with you on that. of those who turned up at their fundraiser in RPH, i know indirectly of one person who donated €200, just say there was 10,000 who backed their campaigned and each donated that same amount each, the grand total would come to €2,000,000, or even if the same magic number of people donated a tenner, that's 100k, those who they claim to represent aren't backing them where it matters to take this case, in the bank account. Roll on the M28

Well as that saying goes, money talks.
We all know the lies and bluff that the steering committee came up with.
So the money aspect of this is telling
10,000 supporters, yea right, pigs fly.

Cork Trucker

kub wrote: »

Well as that saying goes, money talks.
We all know the lies and bluff that the steering committee came up with.
So the money aspect of this is telling
10,000 supporters, yea right, pigs fly.

Indeed it does. If the support was on that scale financing a legal challenge wouldn't have been a problem, as we saw, they managed it, but struggled, that was only the high court. Court of appeal/supreme court/European Courts of Justice. the higher it goes the more costly it gets. I'm hopeful that the steering group disband.

mikeym

If Buttimer calls to my door looking for a vote i'll run him out.

Hes anti M28.

Baseball72

Just jumping in on this thread which I see has been running girl 15 years.....is there an actual start date for the bypass?

When does activity cease in Tivoli and transfer to Ringaskiddy?

Aontachtoir

mikeym wrote: »

If Buttimer calls to my door looking for a vote i'll run him out.

Hes anti M28.

Cork South Central here. I will certainly be asking everyone who calls to the door what their positions are on infrastructure for Cork in general and the M28 in particular.

marno21

Baseball72 wrote: »

Just jumping in on this thread which I see has been running girl 15 years.....is there an actual start date for the bypass?

When does activity cease in Tivoli and transfer to Ringaskiddy?

Currently expected to start in 2024 and be open by 2027.

Port operations at Ringaskiddy are restricted until the M28 and Dunkettle Interchange are complete. I'm not sure how this affects when operations at Tivoli will cease.

Hibernicis

mikeym wrote: »

If Buttimer calls to my door looking for a vote i'll run him out.

Hes anti M28.

Agreed but the rest of them were as bad, just slightly more subtle. Coveney managed to remain aloof, Martin knew it was divisive and laid low but was pictured at an M28 steering group fundraiser with his side kick Desmond and Michael McGrath did a typical “on the one hand the road needs to be built but on the other hand we need to listen to the voices of my people” cop out. Not one of them stood up and said back the plan and build the road. So,I’ll be letting them all know they failed on this one.

Cork Trucker

Hibernicis wrote: »

Agreed but the rest of them were as bad, just slightly more subtle. Coveney managed to remain aloof, Martin knew it was divisive and laid low but was pictured at an M28 steering group fundraiser with his side kick Desmond and Michael McGrath did a typical “on the one hand the road needs to be built but on the other hand we need to listen to the voices of my people” cop out. Not one of them stood up and said back the plan and build the road. So,I’ll be letting them all know they failed on this one.

The most vocal political opponent was Marcia D'alton, who is allegedly an engineer by profession. The steering group chairman was calling on her to be made a TD by the "10,000" they represent. The Green Party don't want new roads built full stop and while they showed up at this also (Boyle & Bogue) they didn't seem to make that same stance. Deirdre Forde was on the scene as well. As for Buttimer, he is a lone ranger there, being the only one backing the group who is publicly backing the group and publicly affiliated, D'alton is an independent on the County Council, the area that the steering group are involved with is now in city territory, as is most of carrs hill for that matter. If i'm honest i don't know how to vote. I've had the "tax tax tax" discussions with Dan Boyle on Twitter in the last 24 hours and i am fearful of their last stint in government such as pushing us all to buy diesel when in fact they now want rid of them. I don't think i can vote any of them as FF/FG/LAB at the very least all sing from the same hymn sheet. They'll promise the sun the moon and the stars for votes and if they get in will laugh at us. Is Buttimer confirmed as running? I caught up with him in 2016 canvassing in Douglas, you couldn't meet a better political liar.

Ludo

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Is Buttimer confirmed as running? I caught up with him in 2016 canvassing in Douglas, you couldn't meet a better political liar.

Yep...his posters are up on Rochestown Road already this morning and in Curraheen.

Golfer50

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Marcia D'alton, who is allegedly an engineer by profession.

From her website. ..

Third level education:
Bachelor’s Degree in Civil Engineering (University College, Cork)
Master’s Degree in Engineering Science (University College, Cork)

PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE
Consulting environmental engineer, self-employed (2000 – 2004)
Principal consulting engineer, Fehily Timoney & Co. (1997 – 2000)
Director, Irish National Petroleum Corporation (1997 – 2000)
Consultant, Mitchelstown Renewable Energy Co-Operative (1997)
Researcher and Project Manager, University College Cork (1995 – 1997)

POLITICAL EXPERIENCE
Elected member of Passage West Town Council (2004 – 2014)
Elected member of Cork County Council (2014 to present)

Ludo

Golfer50 wrote: »

From her website. ..

Third level education:
Bachelor’s Degree in Civil Engineering .....SNIP...

Was a very odd use of "allegedly" alright which I noticed but let go. Thanks for taking the time to address it.

marno21

MOD:

Can we keep to the M28 please.

I realise there is political influences on these schemes so if you want to discuss the political angle please keep it within the realm of the M28.

Discussion of the personal lives of councillors and other elected officials, or indeed the personal lives of any person not involved in this thread is not necessary

Hibernicis

Conscious of Marno21’s post so I’ll keep this brief.

In post #770 I mentioned 3 of the 4 sitting TDs as I think their views on the M28 are important in the context of the election. I also mentioned Buttimer as he could be in contention for a seat. I omitted the other sitting TD, Ó Laoghaire, as I have found it very difficult to ascertain where he actually stands in relation to the M28. And I omitted the other “leading contenders” Bogue and Kennedy as their views are vague platitudes or non existent respectively. TDs are in a position to influence projects such as this and frankly their collective performance has been woeful in this case. It is immensely frustrating that none of the current or potential TDs for the area have been prepared to champion the project or show worthwhile leadership. Instead they have played to the gallery and in some cases openly embraced the views of a small undemocratic secretive pressure group. Our representative democracy relies on our elected representatives reflecting the will of the people and I feel very unrepresented in this instance. I’ll be raising the M28 with any of these that arrive on my doorstep and suggest others do the same.

With regard to Marcia Dalton, who as far as I know isn’t running in this election, I would separate her from all of the rest. I have no affiliation with her and disagree with her on the M28 but I also have huge respect for her principles and work ethic. While most of the other TDs/Councilors appear to have a “there go me voters I better grab my coat and follow them” approach to this issue, Marcia Dalton has on this (as she does an any issue she gets involved in) carried our extensive research, given the matter considerable thought and reached a principled and cogently argued position. Name one other public representative who would have been capable or bothered to put this together:

http://www.marciadalton.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Submission-to-ABP-18-08-2017.pdf

This isn’t unique. Many of the submissions she has put together on different topics and even her Facebook posts are balanced and well thought out. So while I disagree with her stance and some of her conclusions, I’d have huge respect for her as a principled public representative. We could do with a lot more like her.

spacetweek

I'm surprised the steering group were shocked that they lost. They only had a slim chance of getting a judicial review to work.

Cork Trucker

I don't know is it a good or a bad thing that there is very little noise from their camp since the judgement? Any appeal needs to be lodged by next Thursday i understand.

kub

spacetweek wrote: »

I'm surprised the steering group were shocked that they lost. They only had a slim chance of getting a judicial review to work.

Arrogant people usually have a reaction like that.

danny004

you cant accuse them of lack of tenacity but they are appealing.

From the steering group facebook page

DECISION OF THE HIGH COURT JUDGMENT
OF 20TH DECEMBER 2019.

Following an indepth and comprehensive review of the recent high court judgement to refuse relief by way of granting a Judicial review of the M28 APB EIA we have been advised by our legal team to seek a certificate from the high court to appeal its decision of the 20th December 2019. Following careful consideration of the advice given we have decided to give instruction to our legal team to pursue an appeal to the Court of Appeal and / or to petition the Supreme Court.

Our decision to seek leave to appeal will initially take place this coming Thursday the 23rd January 2020 at the High Court in Dublin.

Gerard Harrington
Chairman
M28 Steering group

Cork Trucker

How the hell are they affording that

Hibernicis

Cork Trucker wrote: »

How the hell are they affording that

Their finances are a mystery, and frankly a cause of concern given the impact they are having on the common good. They have never published any accounts and are neither answerable nor accountable to anybody other than themselves. The fundraising events that took place could not have raised anything like the money necessary. I’ve wondered from the get-go what vested interests are bankrolling them. If only we had a decent investigative press.