M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I'd heard it was a bodge.
That they're going to be allowed to open.
My original understanding was the same as yours, that it can't open until the M28 is ready, but my source said otherwise just a few months ago.

This will just increase the pressure to get the M28 done faster. The erm........... “objectors” will have a canary at the thought of all those beautiful trucks going up and down the N28

hans aus dtschl

Cork Trucker wrote: »

This will just increase the pressure to get the M28 done faster. The erm........... “objectors” will have a canary at the thought of all those beautiful trucks going up and down the N28

Yep. I was only told in passing so we'll see if they're correct.

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Yep. I was only told in passing so we'll see if they're correct.

Fingers crossed for a positive outcome

danny004

Cork Trucker wrote: »

This will just increase the pressure to get the M28 done faster. The erm........... “objectors” will have a canary at the thought of all those beautiful trucks going up and down the N28

It might force the Government to get it built faster dependent on finance availability from EU and priority post COVID19 but what it wont do as we have all seen is speed up or influence the judicial process.If there is leave to appeal you can probably write off 5-10 years
Also without the M28, residents in the Ringaskiddy area are battle hardened over the years to holding planning to account and Ive seen it there time and time again where pretty confident enterprises bigger than the ordinary man try to encroach beyond their planning stipulations only to be shot straight back.
The M28 steering group have nothing on them when they decide to get going ask indevar.

Aontachtoir

Cork Trucker wrote: »

This will just increase the pressure to get the M28 done faster. The erm........... “objectors” will have a canary at the thought of all those beautiful trucks going up and down the N28

Or it could allow them to say that the N28 can handle the trucks as it is and that there is therefore no need for the M28...

Any update on the next court date?

kub

Meanwhile a new container service from Ringaskiddy to the US is starting up:

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Port-of-Cork-announces-new-container-service-direct-to-US--e9ef057f-6e01-4ba2-8e6a-ca7db9ad3a98-ds


And today the new port entrance at Ringaskiddy is opening:

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Port-of-Cork-announce-operation-date-for-new-entrances-at-R613-and-N28-junction-in-Ringaskiddy-6bd0ce0f-32ea-4eaa-8517-279bc37228b7-ds



So the usual dragging of feet is going on in the courts and the objectors dream, but business has to carry on.

Jim Gazebo

Good to hear new entrance is opening. The old entrance was very dangerous with the island outside it. Whenever a truck was turning in, car behind would move out to go around (impatience!) And almost hit the island they couldn't see

kub

Am i correct in thinking that it is still EU money that is paying for the M28 Upgrade?

Therefore beyond the clutches of the objections of the Green Party ?

Leonard Hofstadter

It has to be done under the TEN-T directive by 2030 doesn't it?

So whether it's EU money or not (and I thought it was, like the M21 to Adare), it should be fairly idiotic Green proof.

Mind you, they're so busy wrestling their consciences at the moment they might (hopefully) not get into power to ruin the livelihoods of the 2/3rds of people not living in the Pale.

danny004

see below from steering group ,they aint planning on giving up the ghost anytime soon. 5 years before any ground is broken anywhere id say

Hi all,

Hope you are all keeping well during this difficult period. As you are aware following the High Court judgement of December 19th 2019 a decision was taken to appeal that judgement to the Court of Appeal/ Supreme Court the process of which requires in the first instance an application to Mr Justice MacGrath for him to issue the M28 Steering Group with a certificate which would allow us to proceed to the court of appeal.

Following our petition in late February and March of this year, Mr Justice MacGrath agreed to hear our case for certification and set aside 2 days to hear legal arguments. Unfortunately as the pandemic struck all matters relating to our case for certification were stalled.

There was an expectation that the application hearing would take place in late May or early June 2020 however we have now been informed that a new hearing date has been provisionally set for sometime in September 2020. No surprise that both the Board and CCC are objecting to our petition and submissions have been made in this regard however we have responded and look forward to the oral arguments at the high court next September.

As a reminder.... the process requires us in the first instance to ask the high court for permission/ certification to proceed to the court of appeal......

If the high court refuses certification we cannot go to the court of appeal and must proceed directly to the Supreme Court.

If the high court gives certification and we lose at the court of appeal we can also petition the Supreme court to hear our case.

Fyi, In 2019 Angela Kerins former CEO Rehab lost her case in the high court, she lost her case at the court of appeal and won her case at the Supreme court. In 2019 a family from Inchigeelagh took on An Bord Pleanala for judicial review, lost in the high court, lost in the court of appeal and won at the supreme court . ........unfortunately this is the system we must live with.

Keep well, stay safe and enjoy the summer. I will update you in September.

Kind regards

Gerard Harrington
Chairman M28 Steering group

Cork Trucker

The legal bill is going to be huge. It’s going to the Supreme Court no matter what basically. I don’t see the relevance is the cases that lost in the lower courts but succeeded in the Supreme Court, even if the Supreme Court sides with the, eh, people, the European court is unlikely to go against something that will be bankrolled by the EU? Again Harrington is a bloody hypocrite.

Pete_Cavan

Are enabling works, etc. allowed to proceed while the appeal is ongoing or is everything stalled until there is a full and final resolution?

SeanW

Are the State's costs likely to be awarded against the objectors? It seems like they're just taking the proverbial mickey at this point.

Cork Trucker

SeanW wrote: »

Are the State's costs likely to be awarded against the objectors? It seems like they're just taking the proverbial mickey at this point.

Even if they are what are the odds they’ll have the means to pay them

Reputable Rog

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Are enabling works, etc. allowed to proceed while the appeal is ongoing or is everything stalled until there is a full and final resolution?

No. There’s no point in enabling works without permission for the road.

cantalach

Cork Trucker wrote: »

It’s going to the Supreme Court no matter what basically.

Not necessarily. The Supreme Court can only hear an appeal on specific grounds, namely that the lower court judge erred in his interpretation of the law. So they don’t go through an entire rehearing of evidence, etc. It is legal argument only. And the case must be successfully made first that there is a case to be heard. It’s not by any means a certainty that it will go there.

marno21

Tender has gone out for archaelogical consultancy services and a topographical survey of the route

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169778/1/0

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169654/1/0

Looks like CCC are not going hanging around any longer.

danny004

marno21 wrote: »

Tender has gone out for archaelogical consultancy services and a topographical survey of the route

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169778/1/0

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169654/1/0

Looks like CCC are not going hanging around any longer.

Out of curiosity whats a typical size contract for these works ,thousands ,ten of thousands etc . Reason I ask is how much risk are they committing to by doing this before judiciary is finished.

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

Tender has gone out for archaelogical consultancy services and a topographical survey of the route. Looks like CCC are not going hanging around any longer.

Good. Keep it moving.

Edit: Makeup of the Dáil aside, what scope is there for exempting the M28 from planning requirements under Irish law (eg an Act of the Oireachtas explicitly granting the M28 permission to go ahead)? Just curious.

Aontachtoir

Two years now since the M28 was granted planning permission. We still haven't even heard the initial findings of the judicial review, and the Steering Group are happily sharing their plans to appeal and appeal and appeal again if they lose in the High Court.

kub

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Two years now since the M28 was granted planning permission. We still haven't even heard the initial findings of the judicial review, and the Steering Group are happily sharing their plans to appeal and appeal and appeal again if they lose in the High Court.

Just a thought, are the Steering Group going to play the long game here?


We are now beyond halfway through 2020, am i correct in thinking that this road has to be finished by 2030 as per Ten T ?


If they can keep appealing and appealing this, judging at the pace that these matters move through legal circles, could this project be snookered yet time wise ?

AugustusMinimus

Our planning system for projects of national and regional importance is broken. This is a bloody disgrace.

Cork Trucker

M28 in 2028, NRR in 2035

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Multi-billion-euro-Cork-transport-plan-25-Luas-stops-trams-every-5-minutes-eight-new-train-stations-1a8b9148-8f35-40f0-aac1-3ef151e72976-ds

Cork Trucker

I’m only waiting for the steering group to comment

https://twitter.com/corkcoco/status/1290672268067180545?s=21

Golfer50

What do you think they might say?

cantalach

Golfer50 wrote: »

What do you think they might say?

That they have had a think about it and realised that if an emergency such as this were to occur on the existing N28, much of which is very narrow and without hard shoulders, it would take much longer for emergency vehicles to gain access and the consequences could be much more serious

Markcheese

Ah , but if they get their way won't all the traffic be over in balinhasig driving round in ever increasing circles ...

Cork Trucker

Markcheese wrote: »

Ah , but if they get their way won't all the traffic be over in balinhasig driving round in ever increasing circles ...

Yeah, higher costs, higher emissions etc. A great bunch of lads

kub

Markcheese wrote: »

Ah , but if they get their way won't all the traffic be over in balinhasig driving round in ever increasing circles ...

Ah that old nugget, a beautiful new motorway heading into the West, to go North and link up with an already at limit M40.


I know that if I was driving up from Ringaskiddy or Carrigaline and heading to the Tunnel etc, that I would just stay on the existing road because it is a much shorter journey.
Has this thought occured to these people at all?
I mean has it been mentioned anywhere,that the existing road between Bloomfield and Carrigaline, is going to be closed down if these nice people have their wish?

Cork Trucker

kub wrote: »

Ah that old nugget, a beautiful new motorway heading into the West, to go North and link up with an already at limit M40.


I know that if I was driving up from Ringaskiddy or Carrigaline and heading to the Tunnel etc, that I would just stay on the existing road because it is a much shorter journey.
Has this thought occured to these people at all?
I mean has it been mentioned anywhere,that the existing road between Bloomfield and Carrigaline, is going to be closed down if these nice people have their wish?

You can be sure if in their imaginary world that their proposal came to fruition 99% of truckers and traffic in general will go the old way. What’s more sobering is this will take another 8 years.

Who in their deluded mind if coming from the tunnel to go to Ringaskiddy would pass on Bloomfield, head along the N40, up the N27 Airport Road, back down the R613 through Ballygarvan and over the Shannonpark Roundabout by means of a flyover is actually going to do that and the reverse journey when the shorter N28 is there.