M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

DoubleJoe7

Treehelpplease wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence, I live in the area (400 meters away) and am good friends with people right next to the road. i'm in full support and I don't know anyone opposing it for reasons other than the slip to the link taking a few minutes longer now off maryborough hill

Where was this local support during the process? Where were the local proponents when the meetings were in the RPH?

ianobrien

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Business interest wins out over the health and wellbeing of thousands of people.

Think about the health and wellbeing with all the emissions from vehicles idling while being stuck in traffic and from the accidents that have occurred.

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

The steering group put as much as they could into it - and suffered attacks from nameless keyboard warriors over it - but there was no regard for the people of the area from TII who were determined to plough ahead whatever the consequences.

There was plenty of time for people to put in their tuppence worth. Wasn't some of the design changed at Mt Oval after the public consultation? Wasn't both sides considered and the decision made for the better good? If you were stuck in traffic going or coming from Carrigaline or Ringaskiddy every day you may have a different view.

AugustusMinimus

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Where was this local support during the process? Where were the local proponents when the meetings were in the RPH?

You’re full of straw mans aren’t you. There was no need to set up a pro M28 organisation as no such court action was required to advance the road. The anti faction of course had to fund raise etc to try to stop it.

uptherebels

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

Sad but expected news. Business interest wins out over the health and wellbeing of thousands of people. The steering group put as much as they could into it - and suffered attacks from nameless keyboard warriors over it - but there was no regard for the people of the area from TII who were determined to plough ahead whatever the consequences.

You left out the most important issue, their perceived property prices

BelfastVanMan

uptherebels wrote: »

You left out the most important issue, their perceived property prices

They might go up, now.. better road access?

DoubleJoe7

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

You’re full of straw mans aren’t you. There was no need to set up a pro M28 organisation as no such court action was required to advance the road. The anti faction of course had to fund raise etc to try to stop it.

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

DoubleJoe7

uptherebels wrote: »

You left out the most important issue, their perceived property prices

But sure given this is such wonderful news, it could only be a good thing for property prices, right? :rolleyes:

AugustusMinimus

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

How could the steering group represent the 10,000 people if the people didn’t support them. Honestly?

Cookiemunster

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

Now that's a question a lot of people would like answered.

riddlinrussell

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

From https://altroutem28.com/about/ (Emphasis Mine)

The M28 Steering Group was assembled in October 2015 in response to the proposed plans to upgrade the existing N28 Ringaskiddy to Cork road to Motorway status.

The Group consists of 45 members including Residents Associations and County Councillors, who represent over 10,000 residents in the Maryborough Hill, Rochestown, Carrs Hill, Bloomfield, Mount Oval, Clarke’s Hill and general Douglas area.

They explicitly say they represent 10,000 residents, not that the area has 10,000 residents or even that 10,000 residents will be effected.

Treehelpplease

why would a three lane road being made four lanes negatively impact property prices? especially when those close enough to the road to be directly affected already suffer from noise and have for 2/3 decades

DoubleJoe7

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Now that's a question a lot of people would like answered.

It's not that difficult to answer - they had substantial support in the area. They packed out the RPH on more than one occasion.

uptherebels

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

But sure given this is such wonderful news, it could only be a good thing for property prices, right? :rolleyes:

Sure why would nimbys be concerned about the value of their home. Nevermind it increasing :rolleyes:

Hibernicis

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

A bit rich of you to accuse me of straw man arguments given you've yet to substantiate the claim the group said they had the support of 10,000 people.

The only place I've seen or heard claims of local support for the road is on this thread. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying there is literally zero evidence in the public domain that people who actually live in the area have shown support for the road.

Are you Justin Gerard Harrington in disguise? You certainly seem to share his listening skills.

DoubleJoe7 wrote: »

If the steering group were so unrepresentative then why was there no local pushback against them and how did they manage to fundraise so much?

Care to enlighten us on exactly how much was raised ? And from what sources ?

Hibernicis

marno21 wrote: »

It’s official. It’s going ahead

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40236191.html

€30m advance works package to commence shortly which will take 3 years. Construction to commence in 2024 with a 2027 opening

This is really great news and delighted to have been proved wrong about the possibility of this making it to the Supreme Court and wasting another two years.

DoubleJoe7

.

DoubleJoe7

Hibernicis wrote: »

Are you Justin Gerard Harrington in disguise? You certainly seem to share his listening skills.

No I'm not, and I'm not on the Steering Group either, but I'm appreaciative of their efforts. Thanks for proving my earlier point about some of the guff they've put up with online though.

Care to enlighten us on exactly how much was raised ? And from what sources ?

How much? I don't know - enough to mount a lengthy and expensive legal challenge, so I'd say a bit. And the source was the community, they sought donations down at the meetings in the RPH.

LockedBoy

Never quite understood the argument about property prices going down because of the road changes. Surely better roads and less congestion would increase prices - compared to the current set up. The noise from the existing road is already there, adding another lane isnt going to increase noise levels significantly. And sure we will probably all be driving EVs by the time the road actually opens, seems like a win-win situation all around. Glad they can finally get going on it!

marno21

MOD:

By my reckoning it’s now 5 times the M28 Steering Group has failed in their attempts to block this project. The public consultation on the routing (which did result in changes such as Mount Oval slip being retained), An Bord Pleanala, Judicial Review at the High Court, Court of Appeal and now the Supreme Court. What started as an anti motorway campaign finished as an appeal to the highest court in the land on a technicality related to a quarry nowhere far from the area that the initial appeal came from. And the end of the road with regards to that has been reached.

For this reason, I do think that the time for lengthy debates about issues that have been debated to death since 2016 and issues that have been addressed in detail by Cork County Council, An Bord Pleanala and now the judiciary is over. We really don’t need more debate about an issue that can be considered case closed. The motorway is going ahead as planned, just 4 years later than the original plan had envisaged.

The debate on here is beginning to get uncivil again and at this stage it all seems futile to me. I am happy to discuss differing opinions on this post either by reporting the post or via PM.

I think it’s time we moved on and started discussion about the project being built on this thread rather than redebating stuff that was decided upon years ago.

Hibernicis

marno21 wrote: »

MOD:
I think it’s time we moved on and started discussion about the project being built on this thread rather than redebating stuff that was decided upon years ago.

Here Here. Let’s celebrate and salivate at the prospect of this becoming a construction thread with photographs, drone shots and newsletter updates.

neddynasty

So what's the next step?
Does this go out to tender now?

Reputable Rog

neddynasty wrote: »

So what's the next step?
Does this go out to tender now?

Whic,the thread or the road?

Scooby Reggie do

This is fantastic news for the whole region. As someone who drives the roads in this area daily (Ballygarvan, Carrigaline, Shanbally), they’re dangerous and not fit for purpose.

marno21

neddynasty wrote: »

So what's the next step?
Does this go out to tender now?

3 years of advance works.

The tender process will commence in late 2022/early 2023

cgcsb

No mention of a toll so it'll quickly become a car commuter route for Carrigaline and no new bus or rail measures are proposed.

Rebelbrowser

Treehelpplease wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence, I live in the area (400 meters away) and am good friends with people right next to the road. i'm in full support and I don't know anyone opposing it for reasons other than the slip to the link taking a few minutes longer now off maryborough hill

Same here on all counts.

Sorry - only saw Marno's post after posting this and can't find a way to delete! Read posts sequentially and posted on reading the one above from earlier....

major interest

Great news. This will also benefit the city centre as it facilitates the full movement of port operations to ringaskiddy and the redevelopment of those key land banks in the city.

Aontachtoir

cgcsb wrote: »

No mention of a toll so it'll quickly become a car commuter route for Carrigaline and no new bus or rail measures are proposed.

A toll on 12 km of motorway? Sure who would use it then when the old road is still there?

Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy are well-connected to Douglas and the city with bus routes. The motorway will free up those routes by taking commuter and heavy goods traffic off the old N28 which the buses will continue to use, making bus services more reliable and speedier.

Markcheese

Aontachtoir wrote: »

A toll on 12 km of motorway? Sure who would use it then when the old road is still there?

Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy are well-connected to Douglas and the city with bus routes. The motorway will free up those routes by taking commuter and heavy goods traffic off the old N28 which the buses will continue to use, making bus services more reliable and speedier.

Actually , you'd hope someone would run a carragline or ringaskiddy express ( the quicker the bus is the more frequent it can be and that'll get more passengers on to it ) , straight In the motorway ,to the city ,

EnzoScifo

Markcheese wrote: »

Actually , you'd hope someone would run a carragline or ringaskiddy express ( the quicker the bus is the more frequent it can be and that'll get more passengers on to it ) , straight In the motorway ,to the city ,

No reason why the 220x couldn't use the M28