What do we do if the British leave?

jbkenn

What happens when the Brits pull out?

Have any of the Sinn Feiners though this through?

Do we sack all the Police, or just the ones we don't like?, because, there will not be enough Baseball bats in the world to go around.

Where do we get the troops to replace the British Army ?, because, like it or not, a military presence will still be required.

What will be used to replace the British Government €10 billion annual subsidy.

How will our Northern cousins take to the following.

Housing? build your own, we havent got the money
Housing Repairs? Dont break it and it wont need fixing

Bring £32 with you when you need to visit your local A&E
Dental treatment ? whats that?

Back to School for 3 kids £900 per year.
And we change the books every year in case you think you can pass them on.

Roads? Potholes? get used to them.
The price of your car just went up by £4,100 V.R.T

V.A.T. just went up 3.5%
Nothing to smuggle

Welcome to a United Ireland
jbkenn

mike65

Here's a more cheerful prognosis

Bring nothing with you when you need to visit your local A&E
Dental treatment ? its great and cheap

Back to School for 3 kids nearly nothing
And we don't change the books every year in case you can pass them on.

Roads? we'll build them for you
The price of your car just went down by €6,100 V.R.T

V.A.T. just went down 3.5%
Nothing to smuggle

Welcome to a United Ireland

One run by Northerners!

Mike.

Zombrex

3 things

1 - No one "pulls out". The "brits" don't go anywhere. 1.2 million Unionist are the brits and they live there. What i assume you mean is what happens if government control is handed to the Irish Republic and N.I. becomes part of the Republic. We (us, them) are still left with all the british people now living in our country who don't recongise our government. Essentally we (the republic) become the occuping force. Result -> Volience for another 30 -50 years

2 - Unification with East Germany crippled the economy and now East German is a getting close to a waste land with whole towns abondoned due to lack of employment. Now this won't happen to N.I. but it still would be bad

3 - Do Irish people even still care about unification. 95% voted to give up the consitutional claim to the provence.

I would say unification as we know it now will never happen. We will move closer to a place where an independent N.I is a real possibility within the frame work of a closer European Union. N.I will govern itself, with the protection of an E.U army rather than needing either the Irish or British army acting as the N.I military.

Ah just an idea, I have had some wine

Redleslie2

jbkenn wrote:

What happens when the Brits pull out?

Well for a start, no respectable Irish bicycle loving man will ever have to endure harrassment by the British army's hated "mickey inspector" unit ever again.

Victor

jbkenn wrote:

What happens when the Brits pull out?

Remember pulling out doesn't always work. Use safer sex practices.

FTA69

I hear the prospect of Unionist violence being raised, violence to what end exactly? Re-unification with the UK? The British public would not allow that to happen at all.

An independent Six Counties? Consisting of what? North Down and North Antrim? That is also unlikely, the fact is that after Irish unification occurs there can be no going back for any side concerned and thus the prospect of violence becomes an impossibility. Of course there will be initial civil trouble but it cannot be kept up for reasons outlined above.

The other fact that people have to remember, is that Ireland is one coutry and that unification is not an abnormality, partition is. Economic unification is not necessarily a bad thing, many point to British monies wasted on the place but considering it makes up 3% of the UK they have not made a decent or concerted effort to make the area viable. After an intitial period of Irish economic, national and political unification things will eventually function properly. It is a step that must be taken for the good of this island.

daveirl

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true

( a ) Most of the Roman Catholics I know in the north of Ireland do not want a united Ireland. They prefer to be part of the United Kingdom, and would not trust Sinn Fein in a million years.

( B ) In the south, we do not want to spend millions of our taxes on propping up the North.

( C ) The northern Unionists do not want , by definition , to be part of a " united Ireland ". Many know they would be forced out very quickly. They look at what happened south of the border last time the Brits left.

FTA69

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

...And everyone in this board seems to hold the delusion that a united Ireland is opposed by most in the 26 County state, many opinion polls have stated a support for unity. Also, the three biggest parties in Ireland (Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael) have a united Ireland as a goal. These are hazy examples I realise, however, I'm all in favour of a referendum involving the nation acting as a unit.

Germany also has a thriving economy and many advances have been made, life is still better for most than it was under the iron curtain and progress continuous. It will not be overnight success, neither would Ireland and neither would anything else.

FTA69

true wrote:

( a ) Most of the Roman Catholics I know in the north of Ireland do not want a united Ireland. They prefer to be part of the United Kingdom, and would not trust Sinn Fein in a million years.

( B ) In the south, we do not want to spend millions of our taxes on propping up the North.

( C ) The northern Unionists do not want , by definition , to be part of a " united Ireland ". Many know they would be forced out very quickly. They look at what happened south of the border last time the Brits left.

(A) Most of these "Roman Catholics" vote for Sinn Féin so where does that leave your statement?

(B) I outlined the economic situation earlier.

(C) The Unionists are a national minority. However, since its inception Sinn Féin has stated that co-operation between Unionists and Nationalists nationwide is a necessity for a successful Ireland considering the Unionists make up 20% of the population. The "under siege" mentality is just that, an innacurate mentality.

segadreamcast

"What will be used to replace the British Government €10 billion annual subsidy."

That figure surely isn't correct - can someone verify?

monument

The British were at one point in the mid-70's looking at a withdrawal…

“It was suggested - with reference to a paper published by John Simpson of Queens University in Belfast - that the loss of financial support from Britain “would not be as catastrophic for the Northern economy'‘ as was usually thought because some of the monies payable by the British exchequer would be taken over by the EEC.”

But there were problems, of course...

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=1282-qqqx=1.asp

true

(A) Most of these "Roman Catholics" vote for Sinn Féin so where does that leave your statement?

All of the Roman Catholics I know who do not want to be part of a united Ireland vote for a mixture of parties other than Sinn Fein. They do NOT vote for Sinn Fein as you say. More than a few Catholics do not vote for Sinn Fein, you know.



(B) I outlined the economic situation earlier.

I still know that most economists south of the border would shudder at the thought of budgeting for an all Ireland state, never mind the other problems.
Do you really think the EC will give Northern Ireland a £ 10 billion annual subsidy ? How many eastern European nations have joined the E C recently, or are joining in the near future ? As these new entrants to the E.C. are much poorer than N. Ireland, I fear the days of looking to Brussels for money is nearly over.



(C) The Unionists are a national minority. However, since its inception Sinn Féin has stated that co-operation between Unionists and Nationalists nationwide is a necessity for a successful Ireland considering the Unionists make up 20% of the population. The "under siege" mentality is just that, an innacurate mentality.

You have not denied the unionists would not want to be forced in to this arrangement and that they know they would be forced out quickly. Their under seige mentality is understandable given the actions of Sinn Fein / IRA over the years, and given what happened south of the border when the Brits left.

coolhandluke

While in theory it all sounds wonderfull,in principal we'd be getting the cheque book out bigtime.
1 in every 3 jobs in the north is paid for in some form by the british taxpayer that's 33% of the total labour force.
Add in the pensioners and all the people on the dole,and that's some monkey to have on your back.

MrPudding

I am a Catholic from NI. I don't know any catholics that vote Sinn Fein. Most catholics I know shudder at the thought of a United Ireland. I know there is the romantic aspect of it. "Sure wouldn't it be great!" and all that. Then the crushing reality comes in. Life in the north is pretty cushy.

Here are a few more points that Jbken missed:

1. Kids see doctors free. Always. Until they are 16, or 18 if still in full time eduction.
2. Free perscriptions for kids. Same as above
3. Dentist is not free if you have a job but there is a maximun a dentist can charge, the rest is picked up by the NHS.
4. Stuff is cheaper.
5. Laws are not made/not made on the basis of whether or not they will annoy the Church.
6. You get ITV & channel 4 on SKY.

I'm sure there are more but that is all I have off the top of my head.

Don't get me wrong, life in the south has it advantages too. I would not have moved here otherwise. But seriously when you look at the list of perks that will disappear or get more expensive who in their right mind (still in NI) would go for it?

MrP

Hobbes

Victor wrote:

Remember pulling out doesn't always work. Use safer sex practices.

I don't think you would have to worry as Ulster always says NO.

MrPudding

coolhandluke wrote:

While in theory it all sounds wonderfull,in principal we'd be getting the cheque book out bigtime.
1 in every 3 jobs in the north is paid for in some form by the british taxpayer that's 33% of the total labour force.
Add in the pensioners and all the people on the dole,and that's some monkey to have on your back.

This is it in a nutshell. People in the south don't want it cos it is a 10 billion (that is GBP by the way) per year black hole.

Northies don't want it cos they will take a fairly heavy drop in their standard of living.

If the best from both were taken it might be easier to swallow but I can't see that happening.

MrP

MrPudding

Hobbes wrote:

I don't think you would have to worry as Ulster always says NO.

There will be no pulling out as sex is only for procreation. Whilst reading this line you should imagine it being shouted by a purple faced and apoplectic with rage Ian Paisley.

MrP

invincibleirish

Also, the three biggest parties in Ireland (Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael) have a united Ireland as a goal.

on this point,that may be so in ideological terms, but in reality FF since the days of jack lynch have realised the blindingly obvious that reunification in the mystical sense is not likely ditto FG,in reality in my own humble opinion i think must people in the republic do pay lip service to the notion of a united ireland but in reality range from not been overly bothered about the idea to being bitterly opposed to the notion when the possibiltiy of civil strife and economic chaos looms.


also in irish politics in the republic SF is the is the fourth or fifth largest party with around 10% of the electorate,that translates as 10% of the populace explicitly voting for a 32 county republic that does not seem like a mandate that the everyone in the republic wants a united ireland.

the most important thing for N.I. is peace and prosperity
for its people,its no surprise its now one of the poorest/most deprived areas in western Europe,hopefully politics up there will eventually lurch away from the sectarian and ideological extreme to politicians who actually want to secure prosperity for the region,we can all dream :rolleyes:

Redleslie2

MrPudding wrote:

a purple faced and apoplectic with rage Ian Paisley.

MrP

Is there any other kind of Ian Paisley?

Nuttzz

I think we are more likely to see a united states of europe before we see a united ireland. I wouldnt mind seeing a united ireland, but could we export all the bigots from both sides to greenland first....

MrPudding

Redleslie2 wrote:

Is there any other kind of Ian Paisley?

I have seen the softer side. Very cuddly.

MrP

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

A Dub in Glasgo

Most British people I know would get rid of NI in a shot. They are not too pleased with their money being pumped into a state which cannot even agree to share power FFS. If it was more widely reported (the money the taxpayers pay to keep NI afloat), I think there would be widespread lobbying to dump NI.

true

If the British govt. dumped Northern Ireland on us in the morning we would all be in deep s**t.

true

If the British government offered us ( the Republic of Ireland ) Northern Ireland in the morning, we should run a mile. It will never happen in this century, but if it did imagine the cost ( 10 billion to the re. of Ireland economy per year ), social problems etc ( we would need the British army back in to Belfast to restore control ! ).

daveirl

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Hagar

[NewspaperVendorVoice]
Generalizations.
Get yer generalizations.
Hear the world and his brother talk through his arse.
Read all about it.
[/NewspaperVendorVoice]

true

Well Hagar, thats what you get for going out selling newspapers on behalf of certain proscribed organisations !

simu

If the British got sick of holding NI up and we refused to take it on, they'd have to survive on their own. Maybe this would take their minds off pointless sectarian bickering...

arcadegame2004

true wrote:

( a ) Most of the Roman Catholics I know in the north of Ireland do not want a united Ireland. They prefer to be part of the United Kingdom, and would not trust Sinn Fein in a million years.

SF got most of the Catholic vote in NI since 2001 and seems likely to increasingly dominate that vote in NI. All polls of SF voters show 98-99% would vote "Yes" in a United Ireland referendum, including all polls since the GFA in 1998. Also, SF voters tend to be younger voters, and polls show that the younger the NI Catholic, the more in favour of a UI they are. Perhaps the Catholics you know are part of the minority of them that are opposed to it. Or maybe they think you'll see them as a fellow-traveller if they state their support for a UI.

( B ) In the south, we do not want to spend millions of our taxes on propping up the North.

It might be self-financing due to extra taxes from NI employees and businesses. Also, by the time a UI (if it happens) happens, Ireland will be even richer and better able to afford unification.

( C ) The northern Unionists do not want , by definition , to be part of a " united Ireland ". Many know they would be forced out very quickly. They look at what happened south of the border last time the Brits left.

[/QUOTE]

"Forced out"? Where do you get that idea from? They would meet the requirements from Irish Citizenship under the recently-passed Citizenship referendum. Do not be so silly!

Originally posted by DaveIrl
I agree 100%, that's the same reason people in the South wouldn't want it.

I disagree. All polls show a majority in favour, around 70%-80% in favour. I am not alone in viewing a "No" vote in such a poll as deeply unpatriotic. Partition is the ultimate cause of the problems up there. For us to choose to make it permanent, when given a chance to change it by mutual consent in NI and Southern Ireland, in a context where a majority in NI support a UI (which I agree doesn't yet pertain), would be to sow more seeds of conflict.

If the British government offered us ( the Republic of Ireland ) Northern Ireland in the morning, we should run a mile. It will never happen in this century, but if it did imagine the cost ( 10 billion to the re. of Ireland economy per year ), social problems etc ( we would need the British army back in to Belfast to restore control ! ).

It might be self-financing.