What do we do if the British leave?

dewsbury

If southern population were asked "Would you like a united Ireland if it risked re-activating the violence of the 70's & 80's?".
I suspect a much lower percentage would respond "Yes" to this question.

Let's move on, I am a Dubliner, an Irishman, a European and a citizen of the world. I have long since lost any ambition for united Ireland etc. The world is a big place and too full of parochial grudges,

And (dare I say it) I have often found that people with staunch pro-IRA views have often slight inferiority complexes and lack a stable confident personality. Mind you I tend to find the same with born again Christians !
I know this is a slightly offensive generalistation but it is merely my personal observation.

arcadegame2004

Let's move on, I am a Dubliner, an Irishman, a European and a citizen of the world. I have long since lost any ambition for united Ireland etc. The world is a big place and too full of parochial grudges,

You can "move on" if you want. Doesn't mean the rest of us have to. I am not in the business of "holding grudges". I just feel that when something is stolen from you, you are entitled to it back.

true

Arcadegames poll shows that one third of catholics in Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK. It shows only 2% of protestants want a united Ireland. It is quite clear that the majority in Northern Ireland do not want a united Ireland. Much less still would want one achieved through violent means.

A republican once told me that if a united Ireland ever comes about, the IRA will not lay down their weapons until their socialist ideals are achieved. Sinn Feins rep in the Caribeann was based in Cuba ( until he was caught bird watching in Columbia ) - Was he learning something about good government from there?

A Dub in Glasgo

dewsbury wrote:

If southern population were asked "Would you like a united Ireland if it risked re-activating the violence of the 70's & 80's?".
I suspect a much lower percentage would respond "Yes" to this question.

Any question can be phrased to lead an answer that the questioner wants

Let's move on, I am a Dubliner, an Irishman, a European and a citizen of the world. I have long since lost any ambition for united Ireland etc. The world is a big place and too full of parochial grudges,

Nothing to stop you 'moving on' as you put it but I am also a Dubliner, an Irishman, A European and a citizen of the World. I still have my ambition for a United Ireland.

And (dare I say it) I have often found that people with staunch pro-IRA views have often slight inferiority complexes and lack a stable confident personality. Mind you I tend to find the same with born again Christians !
I know this is a slightly offensive generalistation but it is merely my personal observation.

Yes and my personal obervation of people with staunch anti-IRA views are they are often subservient to everything British. Just my personal observation and is probably a gross generalisation.

A Dub in Glasgo

true wrote:

Was he learning something about good government from there?

The Cubans can certainly teach some good stuff on their education and health systems.

true

arcadegame2004 wrote:

You can "move on" if you want. Doesn't mean the rest of us have to. I am not in the business of "holding grudges". I just feel that when something is stolen from you, you are entitled to it back.

Oh dear, what was stolen from you arcadegame ? If something is stolen from you, you have recourse to the law, the European courts etc. Oh, was it "Northern Ireland" was stolen from you . It does'nt belong to anyone else as well, no ? What about the people who have been there for 300 or 400 years ? Oh, thery are British, they have to go says you. ( Thread heading : What do we do when the British leave ? ) I am afraid you waiting for the British to leave Northern Ireland will be like the Red Indians waiting for white man to leave Manhattan , or the aboriginies waiting for Australia back.

true

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The Cubans can certainly teach some good stuff on their education and health systems.

You do'nt get too many Irish people - or any other nationality - wanting to go and live there though, do you? Heaven help us all if Irelands economic systems turns out like your famed Cubas.

arcadegame2004

true wrote:

Arcadegames poll shows that one third of catholics in Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK. It shows only 2% of protestants want a united Ireland. It is quite clear that the majority in Northern Ireland do not want a united Ireland. Much less still would want one achieved through violent means.

Well the poll didn't delve deeper into "what if" scenarios (e.g. are you against a UI just at the moment or for the long-term) so it is hard to say if the % of Catholics in NI voting "No" to a UI would really be as high as 33%, especially considering the growth in the SF vote. No one doubts what SF's position on a UI is. If NI Catholics want to register a non-nationalist political-persuasion then they could do so by voting Alliance or one of the independent parties.

A republican once told me that if a united Ireland ever comes about, the IRA will not lay down their weapons until their socialist ideals are achieved. Sinn Feins rep in the Caribeann was based in Cuba ( until he was caught bird watching in Columbia ) - Was he learning something about good government from there?

In a UI the IRA would be deprived of any remaining excuse for violence, since a 32-country state would exist. I believe they would probably disband. Some of the former members would probably continue engaging in drugs turf wars etc. but all countries have criminal gangs. The threat of a return to them targeting Protestants would be extremely remote though.

Raskolnikov

jbkenn wrote:

What will be used to replace the British Government €10 billion annual subsidy.

I'd like to see some actual figures on how much tax N. Ireland generates and how much is spent by government in N. Ireland please.

You're posting that €10 billion figure as fact so you must have some concrete source for it.

A Dub in Glasgo

true wrote:

You do'nt get too many Irish people - or any other nationality - wanting to go and live there though, do you? Heaven help us all if Irelands economic systems turns out like your famed Cubas.

I know one guy (who went to my school) who went to live in Havana. I would love to visit Cuba but not live there. I am happy in sunny Glasgow at the moment.

spongebob

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I know one guy (who went to my school) who went to live in Havana.

Anudder fecking thread taken OT by the shinners FFS

The Brits Left Cuba, after an 11 month occupation,
in 1763 ,
and asking the locals to pay them a Bill for their services. They have not reinvaded since.

Now get back on topic !

M

true

arcadegame2004 wrote:

The threat of a return to them ( IRA ) targeting Protestants would be extremely remote though.

Ah, so you are admitting now that the IRA did target Protestants , are you ?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

oscarBravo

Poblachtach wrote:

Your trailing off topic here.The british have stayed 800 years and are a tyrannical occupying force and should be moved out.

I notice you carefully ignored my post on the subject...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

A Dub in Glasgo

Muck wrote:

Anudder fecking thread taken OT by the shinners FFS

The Brits Left Cuba, after an 11 month occupation,
in 1763 ,
and asking the locals to pay them a Bill for their services. They have not reinvaded since.

Now get back on topic !

M

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2251486&postcount=64

true, this forum member is calling you a shinner. I know you don't like being called that

marco murphy

oscarBravo wrote:

I notice you carefully ignored my post on the subject...

Itll be dragged on and on,i know it will

arcadegame2004

true wrote:

Ah, so you are admitting now that the IRA did target Protestants , are you ?

Yes. When and where did I ever deny it? I am talking about the post-partition IRA BTW, not to be to confused with the IRA of the War of Independence in the South in 1919-21.

MrPudding

Raskolnikov wrote:

I'd like to see some actual figures on how much tax N. Ireland generates and how much is spent by government in N. Ireland please.

You're posting that €10 billion figure as fact so you must have some concrete source for it.

I have just had a quick look, not sure if this is what you need:

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/TPACKNIAOMAINEST04to05.pdf

I will try tomorrow to find more. I would like to get a breakdown and some more detail.

MrP

poneill

I'll personally organise a nice street tea party wth cucumber sangwiches and earl gray for all and maybe a few Iced Pimms and a tinnie or two of McEwans for the adults later on .

What will youse lot do when they leave ?

true

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Yes. When and where did I ever deny it? ( That the IRA deliberately targeted protestants ). II am talking about the post-partition IRA BTW, not to be to confused with the IRA of the War of Independence in the South in 1919-21.

Your ally FA069, has said that the people in question were killed because they were policemen or soldiers, or whatever , full time , part time or ex, or because they had connections to the "occupation forces". You now admit that they were targeted because they were protestants. Interesting.
And what about the prods who were shot or burnt out in the south in the early twenties ? What about the descrimination there , which resulted in the protestant population in the "free state" being decimated ? We do not hear you cribbing much about that. Ah shure, it wont happen again, why would it.

marco murphy

Who said it was the IRA that done this.

Hobbes

Poblachtach wrote:

Any proof to provide with this post?

Proof of what exactly? That most british don't have a clue? Try living there. I lived in England for six years. The majority of British I knew there considered that Ireland just liked blowing the crap out of people for jollies. You mention civil rights and whatnot and they would just look at you funny and think your an IRA sympathiser.

As for Rep of Ireland (Where I have lived most my life), the majority are more apathetic to the whole thing and could give a toss if Ireland was united or not. Most hatred isn't directed at Prodestants at all and more at the moronic ****s who think treating people as second class is somehow a good thing.

Btw, more people didn't vote for SF in the Rep of Ireland because they wanted a united Ireland. SF are actually trying to help the communities (especially run down ones) in Rep of Ireland in order to get votes. Something they are doing a good job with as far as I can see (doesn't even require baseball bats. ). Other then that people used SF as a "Spoil" vote to tell FF to go fuk themselves. Oh sure I am positive there are some people who want an united Ireland and a tricolour from every window but I suspect they are far from the majority of the people who voted for SF.

Peoples intrests tend to lie with themselves first.

Or if you are talking about the poll, read AG2004 post. It clearly states all of Britain.

arcadegame2004

true wrote:

Your ally FA069, has said that the people in question were killed because they were policemen or soldiers, or whatever , full time , part time or ex, or because they had connections to the "occupation forces". You now admit that they were targeted because they were protestants. Interesting.
And what about the prods who were shot or burnt out in the south in the early twenties ? What about the descrimination there , which resulted in the protestant population in the "free state" being decimated ? We do not hear you cribbing much about that. Ah shure, it wont happen again, why would it.

I was unaware I had forged alliances in this forum! On a lot of topical issues I am actually in conflict with probably most posters in the politics forum.

If you are implying that I am a "provo fellow traveller" who is devoted to the IRA and their "struggle" then you are just tarring everyone who disagrees with you with a brush. I despise the modern IRA, unlike the heroes of 1916 and 1919-1921.

Regarding the Protestants burnt out in the early 20th century, I would say that there is a great deal of hyperbole over this. Some were burnt out that is true, but the vast majority of the Irish played no part in this and gave no support to it. The biggest factors in the decline in the % of the population that is Protestant in Southern Ireland are intermarriage, the withdrawal of the British army, and the emigration of former Unionists on the border to NI soon after partition.

At least Southern Ireland didn't exclude Protestants from government (the first Finance Minister was a Protestant as was the first directly-elected President), unlike the total exclusion of NI Catholics from the old Stormont Aparteid system.

MrPudding

Here is some more info. It is a 150 page PDF:

http://www.nio.gov.uk/pdf/niodep.pdf

Hopefully someone with a background in finance can take a look at this doc. It seems to say that the budget for the Northern Ireland Office for 2003 - 2004 was £1.2 billion. This covers:

• the political process;
• policing and police reform;
• security, including services in support of the security forces;
• prison services;
• compensation for criminal damage and injuries;
• criminal justice (including juvenile justice centres and after-care) and criminal
justice reform;
• probation services;
• information services;
• grants to voluntary bodies concerned with the rehabilitation of offenders, crime
prevention and victim support including victims of "the Troubles";
• elections;
• legal and forensic services;
• European Union Peace and Reconciliation Projects;
• Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission;
• Bloody Sunday Inquiry; and
• NIO (central) administration.

This is detailed on page 1 of the report (page 15 in your PDF reader).

We then come to the NI Executive budget, here is a description from the document, I highlighted the text in bold:

The funds made available to the NIO are separate from those granted to the
Northern Ireland Assembly. The Assembly's budget is largely, but not exclusively,
funded by means of a grant in aid of the Northern Ireland Consolidated Fund voted
annually by Parliament to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (see Chapter
24). The Northern Ireland Executive, which has responsibility for matters devolved
or 'transferred' to the Northern Ireland Assembly under the Northern Ireland Act
1998, provides programmes in the following areas:
• Agriculture, fisheries, forestry and rural development
• Culture, arts and leisure
• Education, schools, libraries and youth services
• Industrial support and regeneration, and trade
• Energy regulation
• Environmental, planning, local government and other services
• Roads, transport, water and sewerage services
• Higher and further education, training and employment services
• Health and personal social services
• Social security benefits, social housing services and urban regeneration
• European Union Structural Funds
• Devolved administration finance and personnel services
• Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister
• Northern Ireland Assembly, Ombudsman and Commissioner for Complaints

As best I can see this was arround £9.34 billion for the 2003 - 2004 period. Almost £8.1 billion came in the form of a grant from the UK government. You will find this on page 7 of the doc or page 20 of your reader.

I may well be reading it wrong but I do not think so. It would seem that the UK government had to fork out £9.3 billion last year for the pleasure having NI as part of the UK.

MrP

oscarBravo

Poblachtach wrote:

Itll be dragged on and on,i know it will

...or you could just address the point.

marco murphy

Hobbes wrote:

Proof of what exactly? That most british don't have a clue? Try living there. I lived in England for six years. The majority of British I knew there considered that Ireland just liked blowing the crap out of people for jollies. You mention civil rights and whatnot and they would just look at you funny and think your an IRA sympathiser.

As for Rep of Ireland (Where I have lived most my life), the majority are more apathetic to the whole thing and could give a toss if Ireland was united or not. Most hatred isn't directed at Prodestants at all and more at the moronic ****s who think treating people as second class is somehow a good thing.

Btw, more people didn't vote for SF in the Rep of Ireland because they wanted a united Ireland. SF are actually trying to help the communities (especially run down ones) in Rep of Ireland in order to get votes. Something they are doing a good job with as far as I can see (doesn't even require baseball bats. ). Other then that people used SF as a "Spoil" vote to tell FF to go fuk themselves. Oh sure I am positive there are some people who want an united Ireland and a tricolour from every window but I suspect they are far from the majority of the people who voted for SF.

Peoples intrests tend to lie with themselves first.

Or if you are talking about the poll, read AG2004 post. It clearly states all of Britain.

Sorry,ive been in england on quite a few holidays and the people ive met either,have sympathy with the irish,as they know that their tyrannical government is doing on this island,or...they go red with the fact that i am from ireland at all,as they think its something to be afraid of.You mention the british people thinking ''Irish people blew em up for the craic'',that just shows their ignorance.The only time in my knowledge of the IRA targetted civilians was that of the protestant workers that were killed in a minibus going to work.A certain high member of the IRA thought it neccesary to do this.So who knows why the british people in general think they are being targetted.

marco murphy

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

the french didnt stay there to oppress the people, steal the food and kill of a load of people

marco murphy

oscarBravo wrote:

You've a funny concept of "fact". (Emphasis mine.) Northern Ireland is, by definition, part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The armed forces of the United Kingdom are ipso facto not foreign armed forces. They are not occupation forces. Northern Ireland is not occupied.

That's a fact.

They're not occupations forces :rolleyes:

There an army liberating ireland from its own people,like the brits say they are doing in iraq.


15000 troops in the north,way more than iraq,no thats not occupation is it mate :rolleyes:

WhiteWashMan

but northern ireland is part of britain.
british troops are therefore not occupying.

also, with regards to the IRA blowing up civilains, personally i think its a mute point to try and argue the difference between 'targetting' and killing, dont you?

its ok to target non civilians, but hey, if someone gets killed, thats their misfortune?

i fail to see how the attitude has changed at all over the last 10 yeasr with regards to northern ireland. all i can say is that the vast majority of british people really couldnt give 2 monkeys about northern ireland. in fact, a majority of them couldnt really distinguish between northern ireland and the republic of ireland.

it seems to be a war that is fought by the northern irish, and some irish people.

and is it about religion or nationailty now?