What do we do if the British leave?

billy the squid

true wrote:

I agree. Much of the Irish history taught in schools was very one sided - I suppose some teachers more slant on it - and I am sure that has swelled the ranks of Sinn Fein / IRA over the years. The propoganda only has to work with a few .....
Its a while since I done my Leaving cert so I do not know what goes on now.

said book was a primary school book, yet the vitriol was pretty intense for a book of that educational level.

true

Redleslie wrote " I don't agree with you because you are wrong ".

What exactly did I write that was incorrect , Redleslie ? Stop making diversions.

Go on. You have not pointed out anything wrong so far.

Redleslie2

true wrote:

Redleslie wrote " I don't agree with you because you are wrong ".

What exactly did I write that was incorrect , Redleslie ? Stop making diversions.

Go on. You have not pointed out anything wrong so far.

You're not going to answer my questions I take it.

true

Redleslie, Your questions have nothing to do with the main discussion topic. I could throw loads of questions at you, as a diversion as well. However, this would prove nothing. Please stick to the topic.
Before you posted you questions , Redleslie, you said I was wrong. For the second time, what exactly did I say that was wrong? Nothing as far as I can see. I am sure you would have corrected me if I was incorrect about anything.

Jackpot

From reading this thread I've noticed a few people have described the north as being an integral and important part of the UK, and that the catholics living in it should just accept the fact that they are british along with the rest of the Protestant population. Some people have commented on the fact that north isnt occupied by a foreign armed force as supposely they are my army, here to protect all my fellow people in the north, catholic and protestant included. So why is it on Jan 30 1972, a group of paratroopers who as so many of you have stated are the army of the north for all, walked into Derry on the day of a peace march and shot 13 dead--a 14th was to die later. This is the most high profile incedent, but there have been many more. This is why the majority of catholics in the north will never accept them as our troops, how can we?.

Another person was mentioning the fact that they know catholics in the north who vote for unionist parties due to the fact they dont want a united Ireland as the North has been good to them in recent years, I recommend these people should take a short history lesson to find that up until 40 years ago the parties that they are voting for where restricting the catholic vote by placing high rates that must be paid in order to vote, knowing fine well that the majority of catholics could'nt afford to do so, hardly a democratic government.

I find it amazing so many of you on this forum just want leave the north as it is, just because its been like that for centuries. That to me is having no honour in your heritage and nationality, Ireland was once united and theres no reason why it should'nt be again through peaceful methods, of course there will be problems from unioists etc, thats life.

billy the squid

From reading this thread I've noticed a few people have described the north as being an integral and important part of the UK, and that the catholics living in it should just accept the fact that they are british along with the rest of the Protestant population.

if that was the case then northern irish scitezens would not be entitled to an irish passport now would they. the fact of the matter is that northern ireland IS a part of the UK and it should only be re-united with the republic if the majority approves of such a move.

Some people have commented on the fact that north isnt occupied by a foreign armed force as supposely they are my army, here to protect all my fellow people in the north, catholic and protestant included. So why is it on Jan 30 1972, a group of paratroopers who as so many of you have stated are the army of the north for all, walked into Derry on the day of a peace march and shot 13 dead--a 14th was to die later. This is the most high profile incedent, but there have been many more. This is why the majority of catholics in the north will never accept them as our troops, how can we?.

and why back in 988 did the vikings invade ireland, lets go bomb denmark. thats the problem with republicanism, there is no room for reconsilliation, they are all stuck in the past.

Another person was mentioning the fact that they know catholics in the north who vote for unionist parties due to the fact they dont want a united Ireland as the North has been good to them in recent years, I recommend these people should take a short history lesson to find that up until 40 years ago the parties that they are voting for where restricting the catholic vote by placing high rates that must be paid in order to vote, knowing fine well that the majority of catholics could'nt afford to do so, hardly a democratic government.

most people couldnt give a **** about what happened 40, 400 or 4000 years ago. they are living in the here and now. if they feel that brittish rule will be better for them and their children, who are you or anyone else to vilify them for it.

I find it amazing so many of you on this forum just want leave the north as it is, just because its been like that for centuries. That to me is having no honour in your heritage and nationality, Ireland was once united and theres no reason why it should'nt be again through peaceful methods, of course there will be problems from unioists etc, thats life.

the only time ireland was ever united was under brittish rule. before that you had the high kings killing each other.

por

Jackpot wrote:

I find it amazing so many of you on this forum just want leave the north as it is, just because its been like that for centuries.

Why shouln't people on this fourm want to leave the north like it is, I for one have no interest in the Republic taking on the problems of the sectarian, tribalistic population of the north.

Jackpot wrote:

Ireland was once united and theres no reason why it should'nt be again through peaceful methods, of course there will be problems from unioists etc, thats life.

And of course there will be problems from the Republican orginasitation that has one wing partaking in peace talks while the other wing is planning the largest bank raid in history.....

If people from the north want to be part of an Ireland run from Dublin let them move down south.

oscarBravo

Jackpot wrote:

From reading this thread I've noticed a few people have described the north as being an integral and important part of the UK, and that the catholics living in it should just accept the fact that they are british along with the rest of the Protestant population.

Speaking for myself here, it seems you're employing the classic debating tactic of exaggerating the opposing position, and arguing with the exaggerations.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK. Integral? Important? I don't even know what those words mean in this context. Also, I'd never suggest that anyone should ever "just accept" any of the facts of their circumstances. It's possible to lobby - vigorously - for a change in your circumstances without the threat of violence.

Jackpot wrote:

Some people have commented on the fact that north isnt occupied by a foreign armed force as supposely they are my army, here to protect all my fellow people in the north, catholic and protestant included. So why is it on Jan 30 1972, a group of paratroopers who as so many of you have stated are the army of the north for all, walked into Derry on the day of a peace march and shot 13 dead--a 14th was to die later. This is the most high profile incedent, but there have been many more. This is why the majority of catholics in the north will never accept them as our troops, how can we?.

Nobody's saying the army are universally sweet and lovable people. Nobody's suggesting that it's OK that there are thousands of troops in Northern Ireland.

What is being presented as simple fact is that they are the armed forces of the country in which the people of Northern Ireland live. Some of them have committed atrocities - most have not. They are there in force because of the presence of armed paramilitaries.

Jackpot wrote:

Another person was mentioning the fact that they know catholics in the north who vote for unionist parties due to the fact they dont want a united Ireland as the North has been good to them in recent years, I recommend these people should take a short history lesson to find that up until 40 years ago the parties that they are voting for where restricting the catholic vote by placing high rates that must be paid in order to vote, knowing fine well that the majority of catholics could'nt afford to do so, hardly a democratic government.

OK, but... that was forty years ago! As I said in another thread, the past is not the future, unless you live there.

Jackpot wrote:

I find it amazing so many of you on this forum just want leave the north as it is, just because its been like that for centuries. That to me is having no honour in your heritage and nationality, Ireland was once united and theres no reason why it should'nt be again through peaceful methods, of course there will be problems from unioists etc, thats life.

Most of us want to leave the north as it is, because that's the way the majority of the people who live there want it.

As a matter of interest: when was Ireland united, except as a part of the United Kingdom?

Redleslie2

true wrote:

Redleslie, Your questions have nothing to do with the main discussion topic. I could throw loads of questions at you, as a diversion as well. However, this would prove nothing. Please stick to the topic.
Before you posted you questions , Redleslie, you said I was wrong. For the second time, what exactly did I say that was wrong? Nothing as far as I can see. I am sure you would have corrected me if I was incorrect about anything.

Answer my questions and then tell me what "republican propaganda" is and who the "traitors" are.

gurramok

true wrote:

I think you will find that over a million people are staying.

Where did you get the 1 million as nobody really knows the true number who wish to remain part of the uk ?

Unless there was a referenda tomorrow on the subject, please don't quote figures that you can't back up. All we know is that a 'majority' wants to remain part of uk, we don't know the precise figure yet.

true

Census figures show the population of N. Ireland. The independent polls I have seen over the years ( someone else quoted these percentages as well in the last last or two on this board ) show that approx 99% of protestants want to remain part of the U.K., and 32% of catholics want to remain part of the U.K. I think these figures are more or less accepted by everyone, but even if you take 15% off these figures , it still leaves a majority wanting N.I. to stay in the U.K.

Sleepy

I have but one question to pose to the SF'ers on this thread:

How does a desire to burden the Irish taxpayer with approx 2-4K (depending on who's figures you take in this thread) equate to Sinn Fein's 'concern' for 'D'workin class'?

Don't try to tell us that the taxes would all be paid for by the rich. This is Ireland we live in, the rich aren't expected to pay tax for some reason, and even if it was distributed fairly amongst the population, there would still be a significant impact on those working at and below the average Industrial wage, myself included.

The economic consequence's of any proposed unification with NI are the main ones that concern me. The second is the bloodbath the would ensue when the hard-line unionists sought 'their revenge' and I don't believe for a minute that the IRA would stand aside and allow the legitimate army and police forces of the proposed United Ireland deal with said parties.

And finally, the Republic's economy is highly dependent of direct Foreign Investment. I, for one, can't see the American multi-nationals hanging around when the violence started taking place in the south. So, you can add rising unemployment to the list of problems a United Ireland would cause.

Sinn Fein: truly the worker's party :rolleyes:

arcadegame2004

true wrote:

Census figures show the population of N. Ireland. The independent polls I have seen over the years ( someone else quoted these percentages as well in the last last or two on this board ) show that approx 99% of protestants want to remain part of the U.K., and 32% of catholics want to remain part of the U.K. I think these figures are more or less accepted by everyone, but even if you take 15% off these figures , it still leaves a majority wanting N.I. to stay in the U.K.

It does. But that doesn't mean it will always be the case. Nor does it mean it should always be the case.

gurramok

true wrote:

Census figures show the population of N. Ireland. The independent polls I have seen over the years ( someone else quoted these percentages as well in the last last or two on this board ) show that approx 99% of protestants want to remain part of the U.K., and 32% of catholics want to remain part of the U.K. I think these figures are more or less accepted by everyone, but even if you take 15% off these figures , it still leaves a majority wanting N.I. to stay in the U.K.

Polls are always wrong, they were wrong predicting at nearly every election up north.
Without a referenda on the subject, unless you actually went door to door of all the 1.7m or so inhabitants, then you have a true figure.
The only way for now to guess a close figure is going by who votes for what party. If you combine the nationalist parties (SDLP + SF) who desire a united ireland by their respective means, the total is more like 43% of over 18 adults who desire a united ireland through the ballot box.
But then again, turnout can be varied as some people don't turn up to vote so the real figure is not known.

Who is everyone ?

true

arcadegame2004 wrote:

It does. But that doesn't mean it will always be the case. Nor does it mean it should always be the case.

No, but it is the case. The majority has been this way for generations and it will not change overnight.
Polls nowadays are usually correct to within one or two percent.