Charges for Building a Website

pencil

JustHalf wrote:

http://www.transwareplc.com/ is my latest. I can't see how this is particularly relevant though.

Very nicely coded. Not 100% on your combination of greens but good clean intuitive structure.

pencil

kbannon wrote:

Based on the aformentioned 5 days, if you were to recruit a solicitor or plumber for the same period what would it cost.
While you are at it, how much is in your bank account?

Exactly.

More to the point - if you were to engage a 'contract cleaning' company to stick around your offices for the same lenght of time - you'd pay more!

RicardoSmith

pencil wrote:

Exactly.
More to the point - if you were to engage a 'contract cleaning' company to stick around your offices for the same lenght of time - you'd pay more!

Your point would be valid if there were no other market forces and some occupations are not more desirable than others. But of course there are, so its a facile argument. Some people will do work experience for free to get experience. Especially in creative fields. However you don't get many people doing cleaning for free to get experience do you. :rolleyes:

heggie

lol, i am a professional web developer / graphic designer, and as i said, hes doin a nixer, hes not a pro, so hes not gonna charge a minimum of 1000 or 1500 euro, jesus get a grip. I am not disregarding anyones opinion, i did not speak agains all posters, I have my .ie with blacknight, so please read what i said before commenting like an idiot. Every one of these threads gets spoiled by people acting much like you, the guy is doing a job, once off most likely, a basic site from what i read, and wanted a guideline price, thats what i gave.

K!LL!@N

He might think it's a once off, but unless the spec is defined and a contract drawn up that covers every detail, he may find himself being called upon everytime the client wants to change something on the website.
And they'll more than likely expect it to be changed for nothing.
So make it very clear that what's done is done, and any further work on it, will be charged accordingly.

I'd be interested to see the final site and the amount paid for it.

Killian

RicardoSmith

K!LL!@N wrote:

....spec is defined and a contract drawn up that covers every detail...

You don't do many nixers do you...

Its a good point though. Saves a lot of grief if you agree some sort of spec and deliverables. So once they are achieved your finished, and they can't sneak any additional work in before they pay you. Also a good idea to get some money 50% even, half way or 80% before your handover your work. It can be like getting money out of a stone, even from friends.

Sleepy

To the original poster: I do the odd website much along the lines of what you're talking about doing there. It's just a nixer for me but for something with 20/30 pages I'd be looking at between 500 and a grand. I'm not the best designer in the world, I don't provide hosting but that's what clients will happily pay and will continue to reccomend me to others.

There's some great tips from some of the professionals in here. Sure, you can't charge their rates as someone who's just starting out, and doing so as a nixer, but you can learn from their attitude of providing excellent service to your clients. Hold their hands through the design process, explain the benefits of things like reciprocal link exchanges, search engine submission, etc. etc. The more the client feels involved in the design of the site, the happier they'll be with the end result.

Not trying to discredit what anyone else said, just offering my own opinion and advice.

dangerman

RicardoSmith wrote:

Problem with threads like this is that is not a "fixed" price for this kinda of work. A busy studio, professional is going to charge one price, and a student looking to build his portfolio another. But its useful to point out the pitfalls of undercharging and suggest how to manage projects like these and approximate costs and fees to charge. But theres no absolutes in terms of charges.

Personally I do think that all markets including wedesign, software development, are effected by underbidding and eventually the amount profitable jobs worth doing does decrease.

I recently got completely sucker-punched by another designer, I gave a quote for a bit of work [brand/logo work I think it was] and got an email back saying 'well actually the other quote we got was significantly less. We thought it was a bit low but one of the girls here knows him so we're going with it.' - She attached his quote too [quite a strange thing to do], and he'd undercut me by about 1,500 - completely undercharging for the work, probably just to ensure he got it. Makes me glad I'm not relying on this kind of work because it really really pissed me off.

RicardoSmith

dangerman wrote:

...She attached his quote too [quite a strange thing to do],....

Well if they couldn't be professional about that, and didn't ask you questions why the other quote was so much cheaper then I'd say they'd probably be consistently unprofessional throughout the project.

Some designers, webdesign companies have generic templates and content managment systems that they can leverage to spit out a very fast site, which can mean they are a lot cheaper. However it does tie the client into the system. Which has plus'es and minus'es for both parties. But perhaps you can see from the quote that this isn't the case here. Just a thought though. I worked with one place that could create a site, online shop and implement a payment gateway in half a day. It would look decent though obviously a generic template. Getting the clients content online and any customisation would be on top of that. But they had means to speed that up too, with scanners with document feeders etc, you could pull a brochure apart and online in a couple of days.

JustHalf

Dangerman: ditto. A couple of years ago, as a favour, I was charging 650 euro to redesign a clients website. He was a friend of the family, so I was charging less than the bare minimum.

He decided not to go with me, as another designer was charging 150. I couldn't compete with him on price, and that's what was most important to this client.

I've since learned that the best clients to work for are those that care primarily about the quality of the output I produce, and value it. This has knock-on effects far outside the scope of pricing.

If a client wants simply "a website", I've found that they will be less willing to provide material on time, and to be less willing to work on the website (remember, a clients input is important throughout the process).

It's impossible to design a website well if the client doesn't really know what they want it for or who they are aiming the site at. Hopefully this is because they just haven't thought about it enough, but sometimes it's because they just don't care.

It's part of our job as web designers to educate our clients about this. You'll have to excuse us if we get a bit caught up with people charging peanuts for a website, regardless of the final quality... it devalues our work in the eyes of the market, and makes people think "websites are easy". A random geocities page is, a Flickr or Boards.ie is not.

Keyzer

kbannon wrote:

While you are at it, how much is in your bank account?

What a stupid comment....

I asked a question out of curiosity.
He declined to answer.
I explained why I asked and that I meant no harm.
He took no offence.
End of story.

Why are you taking offence?

RicardoSmith

Jeez its Friday guyz chill... :cool:

Eventually you learn to identify the clients & friends who are just going to be more grief than the job is worth. Best to avoid. If you are competing just on price, then they'll always find someone cheaper. You can't win. You need to establish a client base that wants YOU for your skills, professionalism, creativity and style. You also need a good working relationship between you. You don't want clients that will make your life hell.

Bard

Keyzer wrote:

Why are you taking offence?

He's not,- he's just being a smartarse.

... and he's far from the only one.

Seth Brundle

Keyzer wrote:

What a stupid comment....

I asked a question out of curiosity.
He declined to answer.
I explained why I asked and that I meant no harm.
He took no offence.
End of story.

Why are you taking offence?

as Bard said, Im only being a smart arse but at the same time it is not the kind of question one should ever ask. It is like asking "how much do you earn?"!

RicardoSmith

kbannon wrote:

as Bard said, Im only being a smart arse but at the same time it is not the kind of question one should ever ask. It is like asking "how much do you earn?"!

Why not?

Seth Brundle

RicardoSmith wrote:

Why not?

OK, fair enough.
By the way, Ricardo, how much do you earn?

snappieT

Bard wrote:

By "elitist show-off replies" I'll presume you mean replies from professionals who do web development for a living as opposed to replies from teenage bedroom-based Frontpage junkie monkeys who just pull a site development fee out of their arses.

Enter me. Teenage. Bedroom based. Dreamweaver (god I hate Microsoft). Not a junkie (yet, maybe after my paycheck)

And finally, site development. Rather than trying to fist myself, I decided to ask boardies, those with experience and more cop-on than myself.



Cheers for all the suggestions BTW, interesting how far away from my original figures we are talking. I was thinking 80 - 150 tops. Keep the suggestions coming.

Thanks again,
snappie

RicardoSmith

kbannon wrote:

OK, fair enough.
By the way, Ricardo, how much do you earn?

Not enough.

Keyzer

kbannon wrote:

as Bard said, Im only being a smart arse but at the same time it is not the kind of question one should ever ask. It is like asking "how much do you earn?"!

I didn't ask you, I asked Justhalf.
Its up to him to deem the question as "a question one should ever ask"...
There was no offence to justhalf intended and he didn't take any so....

end of story.....

Bard

Keyzer wrote:

I didn't ask you, I asked Justhalf.
Its up to him to deem the question as "a question one should ever ask"...
There was no offence to justhalf intended and he didn't take any so....

end of story.....

It's a public forum, Keyzer, - anyone at all can deem the question inappropriate if they so wish and post a message to that effect if they want to. Just because you addressed a message directly to Justhalf doesn't mean nobody else can reply and give their opinion on it. Chill out. Bit of a dead subject now anyway...

Back on point:-

snapscan1212p wrote:

And finally, site development. Rather than trying to fist myself, I decided to ask boardies, those with experience and more cop-on than myself.

This was a good idea. Frankly, though, it's been asked a million times before and yes, it's a pity there isn't a sticky thread about amateur web development and the fees one can expect to charge for such a service.

snapscan1212p wrote:

]
Cheers for all the suggestions BTW, interesting how far away from my original figures we are talking. I was thinking 80 - 150 tops. Keep the suggestions coming.

That's grand - but I'd suggest you don't dare charge any more than two to five hundred... tops. You've got professionals suggesting professional fees here - you can't hope to charge anywhere near the same yet.

clearz

Im on the same boat as you. I am a student thet has developed a few websites for local businesses. I would never charge less than 500 Euro. + hosting fees. You will here all sorts of rubbish in here from professionals like 'Id do that for 200 euro'. 'I could do that site in 10 minns'. Remember you are not an amature web developer. You are an amature web developing campany. You will be:

A Photographer
A Consultant
A Programmer
A Graphic Designer
Support Staff
And all the rest that I cant think off

So dont charge less than 500 unless you want to earn less than the minimum wage period.

snappieT

clearz wrote:

Im on the same boat as you. I am a student thet has developed a few websites for local businesses. I would never charge less than 500 Euro. + hosting fees. You will here all sorts of rubbish in here from professionals like 'Id do that for 200 euro'. 'I could do that site in 10 minns'. Remember you are not an amature web developer. You are an amature web developing campany. You will be:

A Photographer
A Consultant
A Programmer
A Graphic Designer
Support Staff
And all the rest that I cant think off

So dont charge less than 500 unless you want to earn less than the minimum wage period.

Utter Genius.
Can I attend one of your evening classes perhaps?

Would you be charging as the speaker, sound technicion (You can shout, right?), organiser, chair-layer-outer, organiser's assisrant, insurer, genius factor, and the time it would take you to figure out what you can say (triple time if it results in insomnia)


Once, again, genius

RicardoSmith

clearz wrote:

...amature developing campany....

Thats so apt...

clearz wrote:

...
A Photographer
A Consultant
A Programmer
A Graphic Designer
Support Staff
And all the rest that I cant think off

So dont charge less than 500 unless you want to earn less than the minimum wage period.

Other than the bad english (maybe english isn't his first language) I thought he made a lot of sense.