McGuinness: Tsunami should spark new eco-approach

daveirl

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is_that_so

daveirl wrote:

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He was Minister of Education in the last Northern Assembly

RedRules5

Did you read the article you so kindly provided a link to. He does not say that the tsunami was a result climate change. One sentance reads

'Whatever the reason, this catastrophe has focused our attention on our increasingly unpredictable climate'.

Although I would disagree with this in so far as this is the first I have heard anyone mention climate change in the past week, otherwise his opinions on the state of the worlds climate as expressed in the article are spot on.

dregin

He was trying to hilight the power of nature in the way it has caused so much destruction in asia and how it could be so much worse if the world don't begin to appreciate the threat of global warming and it's results.

I think he was completely right to bring the catastrophe and global warming into the same context.

A Dub in Glasgo

Exactly how I read it. He linked the tsunami disaster devastation to something that could happen during climate change.

I think the the title of this thread is what some want to believe rather than what was actually said.

alleepally

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Exactly how I read it. He linked the tsunami disaster devastation to something that could happen during climate change.

I think the the title of this thread is what some want to believe rather than what was actually said.

DOn't you know that Sinn Fein members or anyone in the republican movement can't have an opinion in this country without it being misqouted and linked to the IRA somehow... Makes me puke.

dregin

The problem is, alot of boards users will see the title of the thread on the front page of the site and take it at face value without even reading the rest of the thread....

Title edit please.

marco murphy

If it is global warming this is the first of many disisaters

dregin

Poblachtach wrote:

If it is global warming this is the first of many disisaters

What do you mean by "it"? We've already established that he wasn't blaming global warning for the disaster, or have you not read the other replies?

daveirl

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marco murphy

dregin wrote:

What do you mean by "it"? We've already established that he wasn't blaming global warning for the disaster, or have you not read the other replies?

What makes you think iam refering to ''him''?

RedRules5

alleepally wrote:

DOn't you know that Sinn Fein members or anyone in the republican movement can't have an opinion in this country without it being misqouted and linked to the IRA somehow... Makes me puke.

Where in this thread is he linked with the IRA, although having the misfortune of picking up last Sundays Independent I would take your point on this.

daveirl wrote:

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In the sentence immediately preceeding this one you have quoted he says "Ecologists have been telling world leaders for years...." would you not agree that in the past very few governments took global warming seriously, but now most do accept that it is a reality. If so his sentence makes perfect sense.

daveirl wrote:

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In answer to the first sentence, my point is that his use of the phrase "whatever the reason" would imply that he does not believe what you are trying to make out, hence my use of that quote. As for the second sentence, if you re-read my initial reply you will find that I do agree with you on this point.

A Dub in Glasgo

Move along folks... nothing to see in this thread

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If ever there was an obvious attempt to spin something that is not there, this thread is it and daveirl should do the honourable thing and request it's closure

David Office

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Move along folks... nothing to see in this thread

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If ever there was an obvious attempt to spin something that is not there, this thread is it and daveirl should do the honourable thing and request it's closure

Nothing go see - the Sinners trying to make political hay out of this catastrophe - and at the home of one of the victims. Im surprised he didnt have something to say about the Iraq war or the Treaty of Nice while he was at it!!!
If he wants to make a comment on global warming - which has nothing to do with this disaster - pick a suitable fourm and time. :mad:

A Dub in Glasgo

David Office wrote:

Nothing go see - the Sinners trying to make political hay out of this catastrophe - and at the home of one of the victims. Im surprised he didnt have something to say about the Iraq war or the Treaty of Nice while he was at it!!!

He raised the point that the devastation and destruction we witnessed can happen through events tied with climate change/global warming. Do you disagree?

He then went on to raise the point that this should concentrate our minds to do something about climate change/global warming. Do you disagree?

If he wants to make a comment on global warming - which has nothing to do with this disaster - pick a suitable fourm and time. :mad:

Quite possibly not the cause but the devastation and destruction that can happen with climate change/global warming is very relevant with this disaster. Do you disagree?

As for trying to make political capital, look at the thread starter who got it horribly wrong in his rush to try and score some political points and throw some mud towards Martin McGuinness.

Nearly all global governments are making political capital out of this disaster. Nearly all pressure groups are making political capital out of this disaster.

Will this disaster concentrate some of the political minds to try and avoid a disaster that is similar in its devastation and destruction to the Earthquake we have just witnessed? I bloody well hope so and so should all of us!!

Hobbes

Ok if you want to be outraged, why not at the right people.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200501060003

and...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200501050006

Michael Savage wrote:

You could argue, maybe this is God's hand, because some of their brethren struck Christian America. Maybe God speaks the truth but waits. Seeks the truth and waits. I don't know. You could argue: God struck them. Now, I don't argue that because I'm not a theologian.
...
We shouldn't be spending a nickel on this, as far as I'm concerned. ... I don't want one nickel of my money going over there. ... I am sick of being bled to death by every damn incident on the earth.

these are people with primetime shows.

Sparks

Hobbes wrote:

Ok if you want to be outraged, why not at the right people.
these are people with primetime shows.

Yeah, but that's in the states and we can't vote them out of office. McGuinness, however, is up as the Minister for Education. And at the rate he's going (and no, I don't believe for a moment that he knew the difference between Global Warming, Tsunamis and a Hole in the Ground), we'll have our own version of the Museum of Creation real soon now... (though they'll probably have to repeal a planning law or two )

edit: Yes, I know, he's up for MfE up north, and those of us from the Republic have no vote there; but 1) His party are down here as well and we do have a vote down here until that eVoting thing is rammed through and 2) I'll be very surprised if some of the posters and lurkers here aren't from the north themselves.

David Office

He raised the point that the devastation and destruction we witnessed can happen through events tied with climate change/global warming. Do you disagree

?

mmmmmmmmmmmmm let me think about that for an hour. It was a bloody earthquake followed by a tidal wave.
As obvious to me as the Shinners making hay from the issue

A Dub in Glasgo

David Office wrote:

?

mmmmmmmmmmmmm let me think about that for an hour. It was a bloody earthquake followed by a tidal wave.
As obvious to me as the Shinners making hay from the issue

So you agree with his analysis then?

BTW, it was not a tidal wave

monument

He was pointing out that this is just one example of the extremely powerful damage nature can cause. I don’t think he was trying to say Global Warming was the cause of the Tsunami, but that because of the Tsunami we should realise what nature can do.

David Office wrote:

It was a bloody earthquake followed by a tidal wave.

Maybe you should go think about that.

arcadegame2004

I sortof agree with McGuinness on this. The power of nature to destroy mankind has been adequately demonstrated to tragic effect, even if it was an earthquake that caused the Tsunami. In a way, his comments could be interpreted as meaning that whereas we cannot prevent earthquakes, the deaths, injuries and destruction of property caused by the Tsunami should serve to remind us that as similar damage could have been caused by "Weather of Mass Destruction" caused by climate-change, we should do all in our power to prevent it.

Just because we cannot stop future earthquake-caused tsunamis does not let us off the hook on the question of doing our utmost to prevent similar catastrophies that in future will be caused by climate-change, if we refuse to change our ways in respect of respect for the environment - in deeds and not only in words. Our politicians sometimes preach the virtues of tackling carbon gas emissions that cause global-warming but when it comes to making tough and potentially unpopular decisions, they tend to buckle under the weight of fuel protests.

A change in the mentality of Irish people and Westerners in general (especially in the US), is vital to achieving changes in global-warming and avoiding as much future Westher of Mass Destruction as possible.

I would advise those who refuse to listen to these and similar warnings from the eco-lobby to watch the movie "The Day after Tommorrow" for some education on the nightmarish consequences of doing nothing. The rising sea-levels caused by global warming cause sea-levels to rise, ultimately stopping the warm-water current called the Gulf Stream which flows from the Gulf of Mexico and keeps much of Western Europe and North America warm. Should it be deflected, this would ironically lead to Western Europe and the US becoming a tundra, which devastating conseqences for agriculture.

Meanwhile, the Southern hemisphere would become a desert. Where would we get our food from then? Fish? And what when the fish stocks finally collapse under the weight of the fishing-lobbies insatiable demands for EU governments to block cuts in cod etc. quotas? I personally am allergic to fish so what do I eat?

David Office

BTW, it was not a tidal wave[/QUOTE]

And neither are the events in SE Asia caused by climatic change!!!

arcadegame2004

David Office wrote:

BTW, it was not a tidal wave

And neither are the events in SE Asia caused by climatic change!!!
[/QUOTE]

What do you think is causing the polar ice-caps to melt?

Also, remember that a number of Southeast Asian nations e.g. Maldives, are only barely above seal-level and face having to leave their countries permanently if things continue as they are.

dregin

Why change the title of the thread and not denounce your first post Dave?

Sparks

arcadegame2004 wrote:

The power of nature to destroy mankind has been adequately demonstrated to tragic effect, even if it was an earthquake that caused the Tsunami.

As opposed to a landslide or asteroid impact?
Look, if he wanted to say that climate change was bad, that's one thing. But to juxtapose it with talking about the tsunami disaster is to imply that the two are linked, when they're just not. At best, it's cheap grandstanding in incredibly poor taste. But frankly, I don't think he's that well-educated to know there's no link between tsunamis and climate change.

I would advise those who refuse to listen to these and similar warnings from the eco-lobby to watch the movie "The Day after Tommorrow" for some education on the nightmarish consequences of doing nothing.

And I would advise anyone to not bother watching that film, it's been slated by anyone who knows the difference between the atmosphere and the lithosphere. In terms of scientific accuracy, it's up there with Flash Gordon, but at least you could enjoy watching the latter if sufficently drunk. Read this for a review by an actual paleoclimatologist.

And then go read RealClimate to actually learn something correct about climate change.

RedRules5

did he change it? i knew it made angry yesterday but today can't understand why, this would explain it. Can you remind me what he had? forgive my poor memory.

A Dub in Glasgo

David Office wrote:

BTW, it was not a tidal wave

And neither are the events in SE Asia caused by climatic change!!!
[/QUOTE]

Correct so please point out where anyone said it was

dregin

"McGuinness: Climate to blame for Tsunami" - or something like that.

A Dub in Glasgo

Sparks wrote:

But to juxtapose it with talking about the tsunami disaster is to imply that the two are linked, when they're just not.

He did not imply that they were linked, he implied that the devastation and destruction of the 2 were the same. There is a big difference but some people can't see the difference for some reason.

At best, it's cheap grandstanding in incredibly poor taste.

Poor taste? get a grip.

I would say the fact that the area did not have a warning system was poor taste also the initial response of the international community. I also think that this is poor taste.

But frankly, I don't think he's that well-educated to know there's no link between tsunamis and climate change.

Really? on what basis? At what level is well educated? I learned what a tsunami was in Inter Cert Georgraphy!

David Office

Really? on what basis? At what level is well educated? I learned what a tsunami was in Inter Cert Georgraphy!

[/QUOTE]


Obviously McGuinness didnt go to your school then!!

Sparks

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

He did not imply that they were linked, he implied that the devastation and destruction of the 2 were the same. There is a big difference but some people can't see the difference for some reason.

Probably because most of his speech was gibberish on the same level that you'd expect when Sting tries to make a political speech. And he did imply the two were linked, he said "Ecologists have been telling world leaders for years that climate change associated with global warming is a disaster waiting to happen. Few governments were listening." As was said earlier, if he wasn't trying to link the two, he'd have said "Few governments are listening"

Poor taste? get a grip.

The guy's outside a grieving family's home, there are over 140,000 dead and the count rising fast, and he's going to make some half-assed, incoherent speech about environmentalism which he doesn't even understand himself? "Poor taste" is a very generous description.

I would say the fact that the area did not have a warning system

They did have a warning system, but a key part of it had no communications link to pass on the warning.

Really? on what basis?

On the basis that he gave a speech filled with buzzwords without any indication of deeper knowlege.

The majority of people in the countries hardest hit – Sri Lanka, India, Thailand, Indonesia – live in dire poverty. An area where millions die each year from preventable causes such as measles and malnutrition demands urgent action on debt cancellation

I mean seriously - does he not think that measles and malnutrition require more urgent action than debt cancellation which would take months to kick in? Grand, you don't have to pay off foreign debt anymore, but you've got no infrastructure, no revenue streams going, no foreign investment, no medical staff, no medicine to distribute... get the idea? If he'd thought about it for ten minutes he'd have seen that you need outside aid for urgent assistance in these cases, at least in the initial months. Instead, he's calling for debt cancellation instead of further funding of the Red Cross and similar groups.

And this one got me chuckling:

We don’t have to be scientists to know that the destruction of the tropical rain forests, which have survived millions of years, will seriously impact on the delicate eco-balance.

Is this the reason for the visit of the "Columbia Three"? Yes, that's it, they're really the field team for the policy-forming section of Sinn Fein, working on the environmental policy...

At what level is well educated? I learned what a tsunami was in Inter Cert Georgraphy!

I'm going to be nice and not make comments on Inter Cert English.