Year round CTYI?

pinkpimp

Jarge!!! wrote:

Secondly, in order to avoid the emotional problems and the closed environment issue, there would need to be way more people involved, although I have heard cases of boarding schools with as few as 250 people which functioned reasonably successfully, the more the merrier.

Speaking briefly about your fourth point, I fail to see why 'normal' people would be more likely to attend a year round CTYI program than the summer courses. I would also debate that people at CTYI are 'basically the same', although I can see what you were getting at.

Contradiction?

My point is, in order for an all year ctyi to be feasable, it would have to be adjusted. This would neutralise the effect it has on people. I know it would be feasable, but just not the same.
Also, other similar things like boarding schools may work, but they aren't the same as ctyi, and I believe that if they were, people would have ripped each other apart.
I would like to add to my arguement a reminder that, at one stage or another, everyone here was complaining about being there. Most people got very homesick, and emotional. There isn't enough personal space for a teenager to deal with things properly, so people break down.
Also, you'd have to be able to leave campus for it to be feasable. And ctyi would not be near the same if that were to happen.
Plus, the food... I couldn't survive without some sort of substinance in my diet all year round. Even the salad wasn't fresh.

Aoibheann

another thing about it is the whole elitist part of it. I mean, people who maybe can't get a high enough SAT score may still want to learn, and what makes us so great that we get the right to have a special school ahead of them? I mean, I hate school and all, and CTYI is obviously waaay better, but this would only bring out the elitist in a person. The 3 weeks in summer is different. It's not school as such and it isn't as bad as it isn't necessary that we go to it, like school is.
What makes CTYI so special is that it's this amazing experience, but it's in such a short space of time. Dragging it out for a year, or whatever amount of months would take away from the overall brilliance of it.

pinkpimp

Ah, now, Let's not go crazy. Elitism is one of the best things in the world. It's just that intillectual elitism hasn't been tried.



Bide your time, Colm, bide your time...

lucernarian

What if CTYI were to become a proper secondary school? And we keep the 3 week courses for all the fun stuff? I prob wouldn't be able to go to this heavenly school though coz I'd say it would cost an arm and a leg.

Jarge!!!

Not a contradiction, when you bear in mind that if functioning as a school it would need to take older people (to get them up to school leaving age).

Elitism is a problem with summer ctyi, so it's gonna be there no matter what you do with the course in any case.

In terms of getting homesick, it happens when one is on holiday, when one goes on an exchange, and indeed in regular boarding schools. It's there, yes, but it's an unavoidable part of going away from home for protracted periods of time - something we're all going to have to do sooner or later.

In both boarding schools and regular ctyi, people are allowed to go home at weekends/holidays. In my first year at CTYI, i went home every weekend and guess what - it was still good.

And as to the food... well, you've got me there. Not even I'm willing to defend CTYI canteen food (although in fairness, most of it wasn't too bad this year).

And, to answer aoibheann's point, i don't think anyone who attends ctyi can fairly say that we beleive everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want and go wherever they want in terms of education. I mean, would ctyi be the same if the let in people who... weren't as intellectually exceptional as us.

Barry Aldwell

Jarge!!! wrote:

Elitism is a problem with summer ctyi, so it's gonna be there no matter what you do with the course in any case.

Elitism is a problem whenever someone is put in a better position than their former peers, whether it be through superior skills, sheer chance, or having more money. My school costs 5 grand a year. Result: Every dumbass in my school who will probably get <200 points in the Leaving Cert feels they are better than those who are in public schools who work really hard and get 500+ points, just because their daddy (roysh) is rich enough to send them to a private school.

nosmo

Deja vu.

lucernarian

Originally posted by Jarge!!
And as to the food... well, you've got me there. Not even I'm willing to defend CTYI canteen food (although in fairness, most of it wasn't too bad this year).

I resent that remark completely!! You didn't have to get 7 litres of potassium chloride solution injected into your veins little more than a day after the end of Ses 2! Mainly thanks to the food there.

I know I sound like a sour grape but what I said is the truth. The food situation there can actually cause very serious illness. And who would blame me for being bitter when I'm not allowed back to CTYI this year mainly because of the food.

Back to the point,

originally posted by Barry Aldwell
Elitism is a problem whenever someone is put in a better position than their former peers, whether it be through superior skills, sheer chance, or having more money. My school costs 5 grand a year. Result: Every dumbass in my school who will probably get <200 points in the Leaving Cert feels they are better than those who are in public schools who work really hard and get 500+ points, just because their daddy (roysh) is rich enough to send them to a private school.

There's a subtle difference here- Those dumbasses think they are better than someone else for an idiotic and basically illogical reason. However, there is a reason for people at CTYI to think they're better than others, intellectually anyway, because CTYIers are there at CTYI because they're intellectually gifted. The problem lies where anyone might think that they're better as a person than someone else who's less intelligent (I'm not saying that it does happen).

Spraypaint

Hang on a sec. When/How the hell was Jarge suddenly unbanned and by whom?

Back to the point: The elitism thing would be a big problem but it works both ways even inside CTYI as opposed to just Ctyi versus everyone else.There are various degrees of gifted-ness(Ok I made that word up) even amongst CTYIers. Some people get in with scores of in excess of 1500 on the SAT. Some of us(myself included) didn't do so well and scraped in. That could lead to a case of them us and superiority and inferiority complexes.

Likewise CTYI is cliquey by nature. Factions develop quickly and people can tend to be left out. Groups of friends stick together and become tightly-knit. Now picture being on the outside of those groups for an entire school year.

It wasn't me!

He was unbanned a long time ago, he just hasn't been here since.

lucernarian

originally posted by Spraypaint
Back to the point: The elitism thing would be a big problem but it works both ways even inside CTYI as opposed to just Ctyi versus everyone else.There are various degrees of gifted-ness(Ok I made that word up) even amongst CTYIers. Some people get in with scores of in excess of 1500 on the SAT. Some of us(myself included) didn't do so well and scraped in. That could lead to a case of them us and superiority and inferiority complexes.

Likewise CTYI is cliquey by nature. Factions develop quickly and people can tend to be left out. Groups of friends stick together and become tightly-knit. Now picture being on the outside of those groups for an entire school year.

That's a very good point. People can and do get left out. I was kinda like that in my first year at CTYI. I was really shy then (and still am I suppose). Btw I dont think many people know me here on boards.

Raphael

And think what it would be like for people like Cotton

It wasn't me!

...I'm starting to like this idea.

Raphael

What, making a 13 year old boys life hell?

StupidLikeAFox

works for the catholic church!

Jarge!!!

Ok. George's spiel, part 3.

Elitism is being discussed as a problem in two main ways, people in CTYI believing they're better than people a) outside ctyi and b)others within the course.

In terms of elitism between ctyi-ers and non ctyi-ers, it's gonna exist with any organisation/society that has entrance requirements: private schools, select sports teams, nerd camp. It's something everyone seems to have dealt with so far and I'd imagine they'd go on dealing with it if our hypothetical situation were the case.

In terms of elitism within ctyi, there are two points i'd like to bring up. Firstly, elitism and exclusion is going to be a problem wherever adolescents associate with other adolescents, or indeed human beings associate. It's part of human nature, and pretty well unavoidable.

Secondly, I don't remember too many people at CTYI in any of my 4 years saying 'i don't wanna be friends with you, you only got X on the SAT', either outright or through their actions. I would further suggest that anyone who does is not worth your time and, given the prolific numbers of sound people at the course, you should go find a new friend. One without an attitude problem.

mentalimplosion

i don't agree with the idea of yearround ctyi, mainly for reasons i won't go into, so as not to piss a load of people off and get in trouble but also because i know that if i went, it'd kill me. as spraypaint said, some of us just barely scraped in. i remember sitting in class last session (international relations, which, before i took the course i would have felt fairly abreast on) and not having a clue not anyone was talking about. that is i think one of the major problems with ctyi itself, that you have eversoslightly above average losers like myself in the same class as kids with brains the size of planets. but, as has been said, separating kids like me from the smarter kids just creates more elitism.

*leaves whilst nursing bruised ego*

Aoibheann

Jarge!!! wrote:

And, to answer aoibheann's point, i don't think anyone who attends ctyi can fairly say that we beleive everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want and go wherever they want in terms of education. I mean, would ctyi be the same if the let in people who... weren't as intellectually exceptional as us.

Yes, but it's in the summer anyway, and it's technically not part of our actual school education, and it's not necessary that we go to it, like school is. For schools, I think anyone should be allowed to get the education that they want, it's unfair for any of us to say they shouldn't. School and CTYI are different in a lot of ways and that's why I dont think they should mix.

It wasn't me!

In fairness Ana, there were maybe two people in the class who didn't feel exactly like you. Everybody was just waffling away on whatever little snippet of information they had come across and hoping for the best. I know I was. I made up a decent proportion of what I said in that class! And got burned on several occasions.

mentalimplosion

ehm what about the guy who knew everything? and riognach's instant jelly? and mary's ever-faithful dedication to australia? and everyone knowing something about chechnya except me, the one person who was supposed to know all about it???!??!??!

TalkISCheap

Yeah, but can we all try to remember that ctyi is there, primarily, to provide a learning environment at a level above what we would normally experience in school: ie. to enhance our education.
Whilst it might not be compulsory, that doesn't change the fact that it can be beneficial to us later on, in our mainstream education.

Secondly, the other (social) side of ctyi is certainly not like school, but wouldn't school be great if it was?! If the school atmosphere were made more like ctyi, then the ""losers"" would either be streamed to a level they are comfortable with, or drop out, while the ""planet sized brains"" would learn at a much faster pace they are now, not just because there is no one to hold them back, but because they are enjoying learning.

Intellectual elitism indeed, colm...

It wasn't me!

The guy who knew everything was the only one who knew anything! Nobody knew anything about Chechnya. "Oh yeah, rebels and all that jazz". And I remember Riognach more for the origami cranes made of Lockets wrappers. They were cool, and little. What be the instant Jelly you speak of?

pinkpimp

Here, hold on, let's not lie. We all know full-well what you remember Rioghnach for... And it aint for paper, thats fore sure.

I think the reason that ctyi has such a good learning environment is because everyone there chose to be there. School creates the atmosphere (or illusion) of lack of choice. Hence, problems.

And I'd disagree with the point that there's eliteism between ctyiers. If anything, I'd say that most people there are the most accepting people in the world. Ana, I think theres a might of paranoia in your head too (but that doesn't mean they're not all out to get you).

Aoibheann

there's no elitism between any ctyiers, except the odd few, but then you'll get that .01% in any group.

and the choice/no choice element is very much apart of it, exactly.

It wasn't me!

Grow up Colm! :rolleyes:

J Campion

mentalimplosion wrote:

i remember sitting in class last session (international relations, which, before i took the course i would have felt fairly abreast on) and not having a clue not anyone was talking about.

Whew, so I WASN'T the only one who felt like that. I think there was probably just Rioghnaigh (who seems to have edited the Oxford English Dictionary) and Nick (the ONLY person who seemed to understand that CRAZY chapter we were given to read the first week who completely understood (almost) everything.

To sum up, Ana, you were most certainly NOT alone in your constant and worrying lost-ness in what was going on at IR last year. So mend your ego and holds your head up high!!!

It wasn't me!

Eh, did anyone read that chapter? I got about ten lines in, realised it could be summed up in two, and gave up. Can't stand long-winded crap, yet I like Tolkien... odd...

Matthewthebig

It wasn't me! wrote:

The guy who knew everything was the only one who knew anything! Nobody knew anything about Chechnya. "Oh yeah, rebels and all that jazz". And I remember Riognach more for the origami cranes made of Lockets wrappers. They were cool, and little. What be the instant Jelly you speak of?

Rioghnachs Leibig condenser for Jelly so it would be ready immediatly. I think that may have been falling off chair day though

Vordaci

Most people here seems to be against the elitism surounding ctyi. So, i must warn you all that the man that began this thread, Rezmuter Duane, is a tyrannical dictator.

As someone who has known him for many years, too many years, I can say a few things about his plans for an all-year ctyi. I've had an exchange of ideas on the subject of year long ctyi and his plans aren't, in my opinion, good.

He plans on creating an elitist super school where only the best of the best can get in. He sees elitism as a virtue, and I can only descride him as a Neo-Nazi. What else can you describe a man with an unnataural interest with Hitler and WWII, someone who could list off everyone of Hiltlers generals and (possibley their family histories!!). He has told me that, he belives that, only the smarter of us deserve to get a better education.

Rezmuter Duane told of his plans that a year round ctyi should be run, organised and financed, yes! as in paid for, by former ctyi participants.

But his plans are not all bad. I must say that, at least, his idea of imparting knowledge from one generation to the next is admirable.

(Apologies to anyone to whom this may cause offence.)

lucernarian

Vordaci, reveal yoursefl immediately! i.e. who the hell r u? Talk about flaming/trolling! I can imagine Duane now: lets just say the word "chainsaws" and "extreme wrath" comes to mind lol. Christ, I've known him for years aswell and he's one of the few people who actually knows my real name here on boards. He has no unnatural interest in WWII and most certainly, I wouldnt call him a Neo-Nazi FFS. I know his extensive views on Educational reform and while he wants extensive streamlining, he never said that we should get a better education over less intelligent kids. He said that the extent of education should be based on intelligence, i.e, more material should be covered in a higher intelligence class. Which is completely logical, as those who can learn more do learn more. He never said that the standard of teaching in classes of lower intelligence should be deliberetely reduced. I have talked to him about some prevalent elitism in CTYI and he doesnt agree with me on that though.

Apologies are not good enough for blatant liabel and slurs on his name. I demand you personally apologise to Duane for that cowardly and vicious assault on his good name. Just who the hell do you think you are saying such base things about someone?