Questing about trading a dodgy motor without telling dealer

deadl0ck

Hi All,
A mate of mine has an 01 Nissan Almera and it's engine check light is on.
He had it checked out and it's gonna cost in the 800-1000 Euro region to fix.
He's thinking of changing the car - i.e trading it in, but he's not gonna tell the dealer about the problem - he can get the engine check light turned off, so at aglance it looks as if the car is OK - you have to drive it a bit and feel it chucking to know there's anything wrong with it.
I don't think he should do this:
(a) It's morally wrong
(b) Surely the dealer could follow him about this if/when the dealer finds out the problem

What d'yall think about this ?

unkel

Apart from it being morally wrong (but hey, it's a stealer, not a private person ), caveat emptor applies. If the dealer asks a specific question, you need to answer truthfully otherwise the sale can be voided

If he doesn't ask / check / test, it's his problem...

Bogger77

it's morally questionable, but if the dealer doesn't check the car out properly, what can you say.

Dealer wouldn't have a come back unless your mate fiddles with the light, that'd be be akin to fraud.

Why not try honesty, get you mate to go to another dealer, see what he'd get for the car, and mention the engine ligh. It might cost yer mate 800e to get it fixed, it def won't cost a dealer that much, 50% of that much max!

lomb

prob be able to fix it for nothing.
whats most probably wrong is the maf sensor which senses the velocity of the air stream into the engine has failed. the computer then tells the injectors to default to a preset air stream. u need to get the sensor out and either replace it at 200 or clean it. if u do a search on maf sensor cleaning there are many sites that tell u how to do it.

deadl0ck

Apparently he's been told it needs a whole new timing kit...
BTW my knowledge of mechanics is next to zero

lomb

doesnt sound right at all mate.
the timing of the valves is fixed by the timing belt. there isnt a hugh chance this slipped.
the garage are most probably telling him he needs a timing belt anyway.
have a look here
http://www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/ency09e.asp

and here
http://www.matrixowners.com/forum/about27838.html
start by replacing the spark plugs, and a new air filter and oil filter, the ecu code is stored until the memory is cleared i think
also tighen the fuel tank cap. now disconnect the battery and leave it disconnected for 10 minutes to clear the fault code. then reconnect the battery. 9 times out of 10 problem solved

the maf sensor is the next usual cause, although timing belt slipage is a distant one.

deadl0ck

He was told it has a timing chain, not a belt.
Anyhoo - I think a second garage's opinion would be in orde (BTW this quote came from a Nissan garage)....

lomb

i dont think it has a chain, only mercs have a chain in any case there is ZERO chance of a chain slipping. if it slipped it would be broken. then ur engine wouldnt run at all. have a look here-
http://forum.mpt.org/messages/9/4322.html?1104185390

lomb

oh and the other main cause is a vaccum leak have a look here too
http://forum.mpt.org/messages/9/5881.html?1103859494

alias no.9

Pretty much all nissan petrol engines have timing chains which almost never give any trouble. I doubt is the problem. Is it an older or newer model almera?

lomb

well if its a timing chain there is absolutely NO chance of slippage. also a light turning on occasionally is a minor fault. most likely a dirrty air filter, defective spark plug, vacuum leak, lose or damaged petrol cap or a most likely a dodgy maf sensor. there are literally millions of threads dealing with the maf problem.

my advice is go to some other dealer. its not the timing chain.

deadl0ck

It's an 01 Almera he has - that's all I know.
Are there different models 2001 Almera's ?

alias no.9

deadl0ck wrote:

It's an 01 Almera he has - that's all I know.
Are there different models 2001 Almera's ?

I can't quite remember if the model changed in 2000 or 2001, if it was the older model, the fault codes can be read by shorting 2 pins on the diagnostic connector and counting the flashes of the warning lamp. May have helped shed some light on the problem.

Kersh

The dealer should check the car out, if he doesnt, its his problem, as for morally wrong?, its business, money is involved, I say screw him. He will screw the next buyer for the car anyway, and make his money.
I doubt also its the timing chain. Could be throttle position sensor?

unkel

lomb wrote:

i dont think it has a chain, only mercs have a chain

And BMWs and probably a good few other cars

Seth Brundle

lomb wrote:

well if its a timing chain there is absolutely NO chance of slippage.

Not true. It Can happen for a chain to jump a tooth

lomb

kbannon wrote:

Not true. It Can happen for a chain to jump a tooth

HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY unlikely. i just cant see how this can happen to a tensioned chain without it falling off.

Seth Brundle

a) you are assuming all chain driven engines have suitably tensioners
b) IIRC it usually happens when the engine is being revved fairly hard or when starting /stopping the engine.

The reason I know is because Im aware of it happening to some BMWs (as I run a BMW forum) - see http://www.google.ie/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2003-51,GGLD:en&q=timing+chain+tooth+jump+bmw for s google of some examples

lomb

hmm u learn something new every day. but still common problems are most common and unlikely to be the chain.
definately get another opinion and let us know what they say.

Kersh

My 911 has chains, but it had to have hydraulic tensioners retrofitted to make it reliable...

lomb

what year is the 911?
ive heard of liners slipping in recent boxsters needing 10000 stg worth of rebuild.

Kersh

Its an 80 sc. Apparently the chain tensioners fail unless they are kitted out with the later Carrera tensioners. That was done when I got mine. Its in storage until summer now.. .
What was the problem with the Boxsters, just wear?

lomb

no the liners just physically rotate i think making a wreck of the engine. very common apparently. owners arent impressed with a 15000euro repair bill. :eek:

fightin irish

lomb wrote:

i dont think it has a chain, only mercs have a chain in any case there is ZERO chance of a chain slipping. if it slipped it would be broken. then ur engine wouldnt run at all. have a look here-
http://forum.mpt.org/messages/9/4322.html?1104185390

ABSLOUTE RUBBISH M8, I work maindealer, nearly every car on the road now is chain driven.