Some advice please: Diesel/Petrol??

samo

I have a 00 Almera at the moment which is costing be a bomb on petrol as do a fair few miles (story of my life cars that are heavy on petrol!!) am thinking of changing it and want to get a bit of feedback.

Have considered the following cars:

Skoda Octavia 1.9 TCDI
Passat 97 Similar money as the Octavia which is a 99 and again Diesel

Or a Ford Focus Estate 1.6 Zetec petrol which was told as good fuel economy compared to the regular engines
01 Mondeo 1.8 Zetec again heard great things about fuel economy.

I HATE my Almera, such a dull car so want something thats nice and nippy but isnt going to cost the earth on petrol but has a bit of space. My hearts with the Focus/Mondeo - drove a Focus a few times and really liked it and have always wanted it or a mondeo but a few people have said that the Octavia/passat would be much more economical which has to be a big factor.

Is it difficult making a switch to Diesel as have never even driven a diesel only a petrol engined car....

Would appreciate any feedback/advice?

Sorry should have added, at the moment the Almera is running to approx 150-200 miles to €30 (!) not good, 2nd car we have is Honda civic 1.5 which will do near 400 miles for same type of money so as do approx 400 miles a week thats the kind of fuel economy looking for but dont want 2 Honda civics in the driveway, as much as like that car its a little on the small side!

unkel

What mileage? Seems to be the crucial issue...

The (both petrol) focus and mondeo are both nicer cars to drive but will cost a lot more per mile in fuel than the (both diesel) passat / octavia

I wouldn't go diesel Ford in a car that age as the VAG diesels are more modern (check '97 passat, not sure it has common rail). Ford was still using indirect injection, so no benefits that more modern diesels offer

Also note resale on petrol engined high mileage cars is a lot worse than diesel. Bad for you now, but good when you'll resell in future

samo

The Mondeo I've seen is a 01 Petrol Zetec 40K and the Focus 01 1.6 Petrol- but not sure on mileage although i was told if you can get one, Ford Diesels are good but difficult to come by esp in a Focus.

Would that be correct?

The Skoda Octavia mileage is 49K and is a 99, VW Passat - have seen one thats approx 80K on a 97

lomb

diesels really are no good. the engines develop their power and lots of it very low down. therefore the engines are unhappy to rev at all. even expensive diesels are like this even though they are fairly quiet.
u really need to drive one for a bit to see if u can live with it.
what engine has the almera have?
tbh new diesels are overpriced and the increased depreciation of these means u would have to do a lot of miles as in 40000 a year to justify it.
i have to laugh there are many merc diesels on the road but if u price one at say 75000 euro and the petrol equiv at 65000. even without fuel the diesel will cost about 16000 to run and the petrol say 15000. now add in say 2000 diesel or 3000 petrol and tbh both cost the same . BUT add in increased cost of servicing, increased interst on diesel as its dearer, higher road tax, and higher insurance and the petrols cheaper and a much nicer car.

its all bull shi^ people havent got a clue.

the only time diesels score is if u havent payed much for a used one, then u dont have any depreciation etc. main cost is fuel hence diesel much cheaper. also many country folk shall we say use gas oil to run them and this costs even less
or u do 35000+miles a year. also diesel engines last longer as diesel acts as a lubricant.

samo

i'm running a 1.4 almera, the reason i'm thinking of changing was had a 1.6 avensis before that I loved but had to sell as couldnt afford petrol costs - approx €50 p/w but the almera's heading same way - you can see the needle dropping as your driving and its getting worse and dont like the car enough to live with it. As I'll be doing alot more mileage in coming months so need something can give better fuel economy

Was also looking in buy and sell at 99 Avensis diesel, Price isnt bad on that compared to Passat. Everyone so far has raved about diesels but couple of people in work said dont expect much expect better handling as opposed to fuel etc fom a zetec Mondeo/Focus.

Am well puzzled now as need to get this choice of car right and have spent a bomb over the years on cars that arent right! Need a big car with good fuel economy thats not like driving a tractor basically.

Mileage approx 500 a week so need good return of fuel for that and not €50/60 a week which is what I'm spending so far

lomb

actually 50 euro not bad for 500 miles however there may b something wrong if ur not getting say 40mpg which u should be getting on the 1.4.with ur car easy ways to increase efficiency
fit tyres with a lower rolling resistance- firestones and most tyres crap in this regard fitting michelin energy and perelli energys can save u 15%
get rid of unneeded weight in car
put new airfilter/sparkplugs in car can increase economy by 6 or 7 %
put 5w synthetic oil in engine this reduces frictional losses within the engine by again upto 4 or 5%
is ur car running ok, if not the valve timings may be out of whack.
dont drive it to hard.

CrowdedHouse

Samo........I bought an Audi A4 this year,as far as I was concerned I was going to buy a 1.8T petrol but the dealer also got me to look at the 1.9TDI(red i 130)..I couldn't believe how good it was,I thought I'd never buy a diesel and it does 50mpg plus and I just potter about at the week-end in it.
The octavia would probably have basically the same engine...have you driven it ?

samo

Thanks for all the info:

Lomb, Almera serviced a couple of months back and spark plugs/air filter etc all changed. Has 2 Pirelli energies on the front tyres and regular ones on back but tyres all in good nick anyway. Will try the oil in the meantime, was just out there getting a jetwash on it and needle has dropped a good bit after just driving 15 miles!

Will look into the valve timings but do tend to drive a car quite hard which is why doesnt suit me, its not happy hitting 70 on the motorway at all!

Am taking a look at a Toyota Diesel and Octavia diesel tomorrow so will be 1st time driving one so will see then how it compares!

Seth Brundle

samo wrote:

Will look into the valve timings but do tend to drive a car quite hard which is why doesnt suit me

If you are a hard driver then there is even more benefit from getting your valves clearances adjusted.

samo wrote:

its not happy hitting 70 on the motorway at all!

Is this because Nissans are crap and struggles to hit 70

bigpaddy2004

I have a 98 Vw Passat 1.9tdi 90bhp from brand new. At the moment I have on it 560,000 Miles! The only time it ever visited the garage, was when it needed to be serviced. 50-55 euro fill's the tank and it will give me over 600 miles. As far as im concerned they are very reliable, comfortable, and quiet inside. Dont think I would ever drive another car.

unkel

bigpaddy2004 wrote:

I have a 98 Vw Passat 1.9tdi 90bhp from brand new. At the moment I have on it 560,000 Miles!

Presuming you got your car first thing in 1998: 80k miles/annum on roads in Ireland - holy bejaysis :eek:

Please tell us you are a taxi plate holder with two or more cosies and you haven't done all that mileage yourself. Nobody should be forced to spend 10 hours a day 365 days per year on the road (this is @22mph, my average speed in my car over 2004)

Alfasudcrazy

Any VW or Skoda 1.9 TDI engined vehicle will do you fine and you will be amazed at the economy and power. I drove the Passat and it a flyer. Im sure the Octavia is the same and probably the best choice for your next car.

alias no.9

lomb wrote:

diesels really are no good. the engines develop their power and lots of it very low down. therefore the engines are unhappy to rev at all. even expensive diesels are like this even though they are fairly quiet.

Of course it all depends on your driving style, if you can exploit all the low down torque of a modern diesel, you'll move along quite swiftly.

lomb wrote:

tbh new diesels are overpriced and the increased depreciation of these means u would have to do a lot of miles as in 40000 a year to justify it.

20,000 miles a year is the generally accepted breakeven point for switching to diesel and if the truth be told, most manufacturers use this when calculating their pricing.

lomb wrote:

i have to laugh there are many merc diesels on the road but if u price one at say 75000 euro and the petrol equiv at 65000. even without fuel the diesel will cost about 16000 to run and the petrol say 15000.

Cost that much to run over what time period? Over what mileage?

lomb wrote:

now add in say 2000 diesel or 3000 petrol and tbh both cost the same . BUT add in increased cost of servicing, increased interst on diesel as its dearer, higher road tax, and higher insurance and the petrols cheaper and a much nicer car.

Increased cost of servicing on diesels? Service intervals are just as long on diesels these days and there's less maintenance to be done, where do you get your increased cost of servicing?

lomb wrote:

its all bull shi^ people havent got a clue.

the only time diesels score is if u havent payed much for a used one, then u dont have any depreciation etc. main cost is fuel hence diesel much cheaper. also many country folk shall we say use gas oil to run them and this costs even less

Diesels depreciate more slowly than petrols, yet you say it's only worth buying one when its fully depreciated?

lomb wrote:

or u do 35000+miles a year. also diesel engines last longer as diesel acts as a lubricant.

Diesel engines also last longer because engine wear is proportional to the square of the engine speed and diesels don't rev nearly as high as petrol engines, nor would they ever need to. They also operate at a lower temperature. In addition to this, unless you've got intergalactical mileage (even then its not all that common), you'll never need to change a clutch in a diesel.

Peace

I'm not going to get into a long drawn out debate but...

I've driven all 3 flavours.. 1.6 Petrol, 1.9Diesel and 1.9TDI (100bhp and then a 130 chipped to 160/170BHP).

The economy i get from the 1.9 Diesel is super. You win on both the proice at the fuel pump and the number of miles you get from a fill. Also the 1.9diesel will clip along when you learn where the power lies in the engine speed/revs.

The TDi's i've driven an really really fun to drive. They've both been VW Golf's. Very fast especially when the turbo kicks in. Faster than the 1.6 petrol i used to drive.

And ofcourse the 1.6petrol.... Meh, expensive fuel costs, even back then...

The cars make models are as follwos:
Opel Vectra 1.6 petrol : 1998-2000
Opel Vectra 1.9 Diesel : 2000-present day
The Golfs were mates cars that i had a spin in every now and then... HIGLY reccomended. You gotta try it to believe it.

In summary... i'm not going to go back to petrols...

PS. I drove another mates car (Audi A4 Quattro 1.9TDi) and all i'll say is WOW!

davidoco

Peugeot 307 2.0 TDI (only 99bhp)
I've always driven petrols and changed over to diesel last November. I honestly think I will never ever drive a 1.4 or 1.6 petrol again.

It's not a runabout car as it is a little heavy to drive in or around the city but on decent open road it's a screamer. This can work to your advantage because the other half will leave the driving to you.

MPG are between 40 and 50 and I drive it quite hard and urban.

I find the response at all ranges to be great but especially 45 - 60. Cruising is also quiter than petrol as your running at lower revs. Having the power to pass on hills is a new experience. I guess the 307 has a higher power to size ratio than most other mid range cars.

Note - there is always a free diesel pump at stations

bigpaddy2004

unkel wrote:

Presuming you got your car first thing in 1998: 80k miles/annum on roads in Ireland - holy bejaysis :eek:

Please tell us you are a taxi plate holder with two or more cosies and you haven't done all that mileage yourself. Nobody should be forced to spend 10 hours a day 365 days per year on the road (this is @22mph, my average speed in my car over 2004)

I aint neither, just a busy guy!

lomb

alias no.9 wrote:

Originally Posted by lomb
i have to laugh there are many merc diesels on the road but if u price one at say 75000 euro and the petrol equiv at 65000. even without fuel the diesel will cost about 16000 to run and the petrol say 15000.

i think ul find a 3 year lease on an e200 is 1000 euro a month +vat. this includes servicing, depreciation and finance cost and lease charge.
i think ul find the bigger motored e240 costs 15000 a year and the e270cdi costs a little more at 16000

therefore it is irrelelevent if 1 car uses 1k of fuel more than the other. the depreciation and cost of finance is much greater than any fuel saving. therefore some people choose the 270 thinking there going to save money. well they havent a clue what the car costs to run. all they see is what money comes out of their pocket at the pump. the hidden losses are FAR greater

BrianD3

bigpaddy2004 wrote:

I have a 98 Vw Passat 1.9tdi 90bhp from brand new. At the moment I have on it 560,000 Miles! The only time it ever visited the garage, was when it needed to be serviced. 50-55 euro fill's the tank and it will give me over 600 miles. As far as im concerned they are very reliable, comfortable, and quiet inside. Dont think I would ever drive another car.

:eek: That's an astounding mileage! Just out of interest, do you know what parts have been replaced in your car over the years.

BrianD3

bigpaddy2004

BrianD3 wrote:

:eek: That's an astounding mileage! Just out of interest, do you know what parts have been replaced in your car over the years.

BrianD3

The only time it i was in the garage for a repair job was when vw themselves called it back claiming there was a fault in the two front drives in the model which I have, so i replaced them. Other than that...nothing else. The car is serviced every 3rd saturday!! If you look after these things, you will have them for a very long time.

Seth Brundle

BrianD3 wrote:

:eek: That's an astounding mileage! Just out of interest, do you know what parts have been replaced in your car over the years.

BrianD3

Hopefully tyres and brakes at least!

lomb

what do u do for a living that u need to do 85000 miles a year?

BrianD3

bigpaddy2004 wrote:

The only time it i was in the garage for a repair job was when vw themselves called it back claiming there was a fault in the two front drives in the model which I have, so i replaced them. Other than that...nothing else. The car is serviced every 3rd saturday!! If you look after these things, you will have them for a very long time.

I'm not doubting you - but perhaps our definitions of the term "servicing" are different. I'd consider a service items to be things you replace at set intervals eg oil, filters, plugs, timing belts etc. Wear and tear items such as shocks, brake discs, clutches, water pumps and wheel bearings I wouldn't consider as service items as these are replaced when they wear out or start to give trouble rather than at set intervals. And how long they last can depend on a number of factors such as how the car is driven and maintained.

Leaving aside very obvious stuff likr brake pads and tyres - at 560k, even if the car is driven and maintained very well, I would expect to have replaced all 4 wheel bearings at least once, the water pump at least once, brakes discs a couple of times, shocks, bushings in the suspension, clutch and various other bits. All of this stuff and possibly other stuff that I haven't thought of *has* to have been done on the car surely? If it hasn't well that is truly amazing and you should be in the guinness book of records or something

BrianD3

halkar

lomb wrote:

what do u do for a living that u need to do 85000 miles a year?

I think your question should be, do you live if you are doing 85K a year

Samo, I do little more than you do a week and diesel saves me about 2k yoyos since I switched over from petrol. You will be hit with extra tax from 1.4 to 2L and servicing is about same as petrols. Whatever car you get, do be sure timing belt is changed so you won't need to worry about it for while and save few €€s. I am changing from 2L diesel to one of the new 1.6 diesels, what you loose on depreciation you will make up with your savings on petrol. Overall you won't be loosing much

GlanzaGav

Hey guys!

Just thought this may be of some help to you.
A few of you were complaining about the MPG from a lot of your petrol cars? A friend of mine has told me about these... http://www.directcarparts.co.uk/ecotek.htm

Apparently, (here comes the science bit) they create more turbulance in the inlet manifold, resulting in a finer spray of air/petrol comming out of the valve.

The guy i work with, fitted one to a 1.6 Audi A4, he reckons he gets about an extra 15-20% mpg. Worth lookin into!

Seth Brundle

I think the general consensus on Ecotek valves is that they are shíte!