SF critical of decision to change guidelines for IKEA

Cork

The opposition from the Shinners is odd. Competition will bring down prices and the IKEA type furniture is good quality and reasonable cost.

RGDATA, which represents retail grocers, said the change 'set a bad precedent and would cause serious concern to the thousands of Irish businesses that had invested in genuine urban regeneration'.

ISME has also strongly criticised the Government decision to remove the cap on retail planning guidelines, describing it as a direct attack on smaller indigenous retailers and suppliers.

But consumers will get a better deal and we had a laugh at SF, Rgdata and ISME advancing similar arguements.

John Fingleton (Competition Authority) has welcomed the announcement of changes to the retail planning guidelines, as a positive move for Irish consumers, which would lead to greater choice and lower prices.

John Fingleton has called it right.

chewy

but does it increase quality and service?

arcadegame2004

chewy wrote:

but does it increase quality and service?

One thing guaranteed to prevent fair prices and inprovement in quality of service is a retail market in which a cosy cartel of the Irish retail establishment are allowed to bully governments into ensuring that they have the Irish retail market largely to themselves. If RGDATA is allowed to think that no-one will be allowed to compete with its members, then rip-off Ireland will continue.

What improves quality of service is the knowledge that you will lose business to a rival that will charge less, if you don't cut your own prices. That can only benefit the consumer.

AngelofFire

With regard to wallmart`s employment record, it goes far beyond refusing to talk to unions. http://walmart-blows.com/news.htm Why cant more companies follow tesco`s example, benefits for workers and trade union representation.

Cork

AngelofFire wrote:

With regard to wallmart`s employment record, it goes far beyond refusing to talk to unions. http://walmart-blows.com/news.htm Why cant more companies follow tesco`s example, benefits for workers and trade union representation.

I agree. But I think the competition authority needs a far greater budget and it needs teeth to bring legal action in cases where competition law has been brached.

There has been a big failure with many Irish governments to strengen powers of the competition authority. This is a pity.

chewy

yeah i was just about to say i don't anyone herer thinks the compeition authority are doing a good job, shouldn't they give that a kick up the butt before they allow palces like ikea in?

secret_squirrel

AngelofFire wrote:

With regard to wallmart`s employment record, it goes far beyond refusing to talk to unions. http://walmart-blows.com/news.htm Why cant more companies follow tesco`s example, benefits for workers and trade union representation.

There is a massive difference between the US division of Walmart and ASDA-Walmart in the UK - they treat their workers very similarly to Tesco.

Even supposing Walmart are interested in opening here - where do you think the operation would be run from??? ASDA-Walmart in the UK of course.

Actually back on topic - can anyone offer any evidence that Ikea is a worse than average employer???

thejollyrodger

Im very happy to hear that IKEA is coming to Ireland. The problem I have is that the M50 when its upgraded wont be wide enough to deal with all the traffic. Personally I think there should be 4 lanes instead of 3. Another good decision is allowing gateway towns to open similar stores.

(thank god Sinn Fein arent in government !! )

sovtek

arcadegame2004 wrote:

One thing guaranteed to prevent fair prices and inprovement in quality of service is a retail market in which a cosy cartel of the Irish retail establishment are allowed to bully governments into ensuring that they have the Irish retail market largely to themselves.

Then what makes you think the likes of Walmart won't do the same when they come over?
I would think that you would be calling for a tenacious competition authority before arguing for another company that uses anti-competative practices to enter the market as well.

Poker_Peter

sovtek wrote:

Then what makes you think the likes of Walmart won't do the same when they come over?
I would think that you would be calling for a tenacious competition authority before arguing for another company that uses anti-competative practices to enter the market as well.

Whatever AG2004's views on that, I feel that they don't have the power to clamp down the way they should. But that doesn't mean the Irish consumer should be forced to put up with cosy cartels ripping us off until the necessary legislation is passed.

I personally believe that free-markets usually have a naturally inbuilt law of nature whereby prices graduate to a price that consumers are willing to pay. We don't really have a free market yet, since the Groceries Order exists and since IKEA style stores are only going to be allowed to set up in so-called "Hubs" as identified by the National Spatial Strategy. But letting IKEA in is a start, and the new rules will bring more in too, provided the local-authorities don't get bribed by the Irish retail establishment into blocking it. I think the removal of FF from controlling the local-authorities will reduce the chances of such cynical and conniving behaviour, though I fear Labour's traditional hostility to consumer choice and competition might still hold things up a bit.

secret_squirrel

sovtek wrote:

Then what makes you think the likes of Walmart won't do the same when they come over?

What makes you think they will? You're completely ignoring the likelyhood that any Walmart operation in Ireland will be an
ASDA-Walmart operation - logistics, local market understanding, and common sense suggest this. Such an operation would be much more likely to operate under similar conditions to the exists supermarkets.

I dont question the fact that the US arm of Walmart has demonstrated some pretty nasty behaviour - however I do question your blind assumption that any Irish based Walmart operation would be operated like the US operation.

sovtek

secret_squirrel wrote:

What makes you think they will? You're completely ignoring the likelyhood that any Walmart operation in Ireland will be an
ASDA-Walmart operation - logistics, local market understanding, and common sense suggest this. Such an operation would be much more likely to operate under similar conditions to the exists supermarkets.

I'm not ignoring it at all. Even assuming that it will be run by ASDA/Walmart it is not a forgone conclusion that it's practices in the States won't be tried here considering the weak state of the Irish Competition Authority. ASDA-Walmart works under the UK restrictions placed upon it...and the UK is not Ireland.

I dont question the fact that the US arm of Walmart has demonstrated some pretty nasty behaviour - however I do question your blind assumption that any Irish based Walmart operation would be operated like the US operation.

It's not blind assumption but commen sense that Walmart will operate in it's own interests wherever it is allowed to.

sovtek

Poker_Peter wrote:

Whatever AG2004's views on that, I feel that they don't have the power to clamp down the way they should. But that doesn't mean the Irish consumer should be forced to put up with cosy cartels ripping us off until the necessary legislation is passed.

I don't disagree but then I wonder how the competition authority is all the sudden going to prevent monopolistic practices of foreign competition if it doesn't prevent the same of it's local businesses.
I look at Tesco's...and I can't speak about their labour practices...my experience has been that their presence isn't significantly effecting consumer prices.

cdebru

the location of IKEA on the m50 is going to be a disaster

great news for the west link

monument

This isnt a case of the open market, this a case of helping Ikea, and (so-far) Ikea only....

I guess any other company will have to lobby the government on their own behalf.

New storm looms over Ikea

09 January 2005 By Neil Callanan
The site in Ballymun, north Dublin, earmarked for Ireland's first Ikea outlet, is the only one that qualifies for a retail superstore under the new planning rules, property experts claim.

Several international retailers are understood to be extremely annoyed at the new restrictions, announced last week, and at least one is believed to be considering legal action over them.

A spokeswoman for B&Q, which had lobbied for the cap on retail warehouses to be lifted, said: “We are looking at them in some detail before we decide we're unhappy with them.”

A spokesman for the Department of the Environment said it was unsure how many sites qualified for the new retail warehouses. Environment minister Dick Roche had said the amendment would be “tightly worded'‘ to stop the construction of large out-of-town retail warehouses.

Five property sources said the regulations achieved this because, although superstores can now be constructed in urban renewal areas - subject to an integrated area plan - most of those areas are in town or city centres, making them unsuitable for retail warehouses.

“It looks like the world at large could qualify but when you look at the balance of tests, only Ballymun currently qualifies,” said one high-profile developer.

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=1455-qqqx=1.asp

arcadegame2004

sovtek wrote:

I don't disagree but then I wonder how the competition authority is all the sudden going to prevent monopolistic practices of foreign competition if it doesn't prevent the same of it's local businesses.
I look at Tesco's...and I can't speak about their labour practices...my experience has been that their presence isn't significantly effecting consumer prices.

Surely ALDI's and LIDL's is though!

sovtek

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Surely ALDI's and LIDL's is though!

It's great that they are in Ireland but how have they affected Dunnes and Tesco's prices...very little that I can tell.
I also recall a bit of bother about ALDI's labour practices...not that I know too much about it.

cujimmy

secret_squirrel wrote:

There is a massive difference between the US division of Walmart and ASDA-Walmart in the UK - they treat their workers very similarly to Tesco.

Even supposing Walmart are interested in opening here - where do you think the operation would be run from??? ASDA-Walmart in the UK of course.

Actually back on topic - can anyone offer any evidence that Ikea is a worse than average employer???

I thought walmart had already started talking to Dunnes stores

A Dub in Glasgo

Ballymun-based Sinn Fein councillor Ray Corcoran said while the decision will result in some badly needed employment opportunities in an area that has suffered decades of neglect by local authorities and the Government, Ballymun really needs investment in diverse employment opportunities.
“Putting all your eggs in one basket is no solution to the decades of neglect suffered by the people of Ballymun,” he said. “I would also point out that there is no guarantee that all the jobs resulting from this decision will be local. We have seen with the regeneration of Ballymun that what is touted as local employment is often anything but.”
Mr Corcoran added he is extremely sceptical about the figure of 500 jobs being put about by the Government and IKEA.
“Local people also have major concerns about the traffic situation in relation to this proposed development,” he said. “There is no way the local road infrastructure could cope with the predicted massive influx of traffic from across the city. There is a very real danger of the M50 being completely blocked up as a result.”

http://www.northsidepeople.ie/index.php?option=news&task=viewarticle&sid=899

Totally agree with Corcoran in that extract

secret_squirrel

He's spot on about the roads alright I think both commercial and residential developers should be forced to upgrade the road networks around their sites relative to the volume of traffic they expect it to generate - It should be made a condition of all planning permissions.

However, I dont wholly agree with the rest of it - presumably there is plenty of scope for other retailers to take advantage of the 'unique' plannning conditions for that spot. Personally I think its quite a good spot for a series of retail parks - that would bring more employment to the area.

A Dub in Glasgo

To think this fool used to look for votes in Ballymun

A Fine Gael councillor has landed himself in hot water by branding the Ballymun area of Dublin, "Knackeragua".

Bill Tormey used the slur during a debate at last night's Dublin City Council meeting on plans by IKEA to open an outlet in the area.

Fianna Fail TD for Dublin North West Pat Carey has said he is outraged that an elected representative would use such an emotive and disgusting term to describe a place and its people.

He said it is outrageous and an affront to local democracy.

Councillor Tormey, who represents north west Dublin, has said he would use the term to describe a place with poor social infrastructure where people lacked motivation.

Some parties, including his own, asked him to withdraw the remark, but apparently, he refused.

He has now been called upon to publicly apologise.

http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=39&si=66625