Burnley - Liverpool "The Battle of Turf Moor!" (scores)

smemon

woeful result for liverpool. disgraceful own goal. not acceptable at this level. i thought liverpool had past the 'gerrard houllier stage', obviously not. whilst performances have improved, results have not.

this will sicken liverpool fans as it was their only REAL chance of major silverware (no, the league cup doesnt count). listening to benetiz he "doesnt regret not fielding a stronger side". he doesnt seem to understand the importance of this cup and certainly has disrespected it by his after match interview.

gimmick

Just when I thought Djimi was starting to play well, he goes and does that. My God, what was he at? It certainly wasnt a bad OG, i thought as OGs go it was a classic and Im a Liverpool fan!

Still though, that was some rubbish display by Liverpool. What was Rafa thinking resting most of the 1st team. Chrissakes, Liverpool are only marginally better than a 1st div team with their 1st 11, let alone with a load of youths.

Things are going to get alot worse before they get better for Liverpool. Simply put, an entire new squad is needed.

As for the sending off - handbags. The Burnley player planted a knee into Nunez' back as he was getting up.

eirebhoy

PHB wrote:

On a real positive, Benitez by playing his young players is showing his intentions to develop a tradition and a strong basework for a long haul at the club, something which should be appluaded and encouraged

Surely he would have learnt his lesson not to play to many though, he was knocked out of the cup Spain by minnows twice for playing a weakened team.

mike65

The only way I can rationalise tonight was that Rafa did'nt care and he made it clear to his starting 11 and they responded appropriatly...

Mike.

jesus_thats_gre

smemon wrote:

he doesnt seem to understand the importance of this cup and certainly has disrespected it by his after match interview.

Are you actually serious?

The Muppet

Yeah ! How dare he disrespect the FA Cup.

smemon

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Are you actually serious?

deadly serious. alright, you cant blame him for losing and say oh he's disrespected the cup by losing but his arrogance after the match was unbelievable.

he said he didnt regret not playing a stronger side. to me thats saying he didnt care about losing. you cant defend your players after going out in the fa cup to a league side.

turn back time a few hours and im sure you would change the side, no doubt benetiz would too. but he's saying if he could do that, he wouldnt!!

eirebhoy

smemon wrote:

turn back time a few hours and im sure you would change the side, no doubt benetiz would too. but he's saying if he could do that, he wouldnt!!

Smemon, as I said, he was knocked out of the Spanish cup twice with Valencia by lower league teams when he fielded a weakened team. He doesn't care about domestic cups.

Jivin Turkey

Awful result. Obviously Im disappointed, as are all fans Im sure, but I still have my full faith in Benetiz. Given the state of the squad, Liverpool dont really need another cup run (not that I wouldnt trade playing in Cardiff in May for this!), they are too far adrift in the league, and still have a chance on silverware in the Carling (and CL of course ).

I like Benetiz's no nonsense interviews. He says what he means and doesnt make excuses.

David19

He seems to have treated the fa cup like they do in spain, not knowing its more significant in england. The spanish fa cup to big teams in spain is about as important as the carling cup is in england.

smemon

eirebhoy wrote:

Smemon, as I said, he was knocked out of the Spanish cup twice with Valencia by lower league teams when he fielded a weakened team. He doesn't care about domestic cups.

he should be sacked then if thats the case. a manager that doesnt want to win cannot manage a club of liverpool's stature.

the fa cup is not a mickey mouse tournament like the league cup, liverpool fans wont accept treating it like one when it's still regarded as a major trophy by everyone else. it's not as if liverpool are flying high in the league and cruising in the champs league.

super_furry

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Are you actually serious?

Sad to say it, but he's spot on. Rafa got it wrong tonight and because of his decisions, we're out of the Cup. Think about that for a second - out of the FA Cup in January to Burnely, it's f***ing disgraceful.

In Spain, the Copa Del Ray is a distant second to La Liga but the FA Cup is a prestigious competition in which Liverpool have a great history. By playing kids and reserves tonight against a good Championship team, Rafa showed that he didn't understand exactly how much it means. And that is why we're out. Not because of Djimi, but because of the boss.

Third_Echelon

That has to go down as goal of the season so far.... what the fcuk was he trying to do????? Back to classic jimi....

This is a major shock. Liverpool fans wont be too happy about this. If he was going to disrespect any cup it should have been the carling cup from day 1... It will be interesting to see the general reaction to this from liverpool fans.

Im sure that some liverpool fans will try to justify this defeat and use the weakened team excuse, but in all reality liverpool should be putting these teams away with no big problems.

The fallout will be interesting to step back and take a look at....

Flukey

A real howler!

eirebhoy

smemon wrote:

he should be sacked then if thats the case. a manager that doesnt want to win cannot manage a club of liverpool's stature.

the fa cup is not a mickey mouse tournament like the league cup, liverpool fans wont accept treating it like one when it's still regarded as a major trophy by everyone else. it's not as if liverpool are flying high in the league and cruising in the champs league.

You do realise that Man U put in an equally bad performance with an equally weakened team just last week?

The Muppet

Third_Echelon wrote:

This is a major shock. Liverpool fans wont be too happy about this. If he was going to disrespect any cup it should have been the carling cup from day 1... It will be interesting to see the general reaction to this from liverpool fans.

I dont Know about that, they still have their four european cups to keep them happy.

super_furry

eirebhoy wrote:

You do realise that Man U put in an equally bad performance with an equally weakened team just last week?

Yeah, but you can play reserves and kids against a non-league team at home and realistically expect to win. Do the same against a Championship team away from home and you're taking the piss.

Jivin Turkey

eirebhoy wrote:

You do realise that Man U put in an equally bad performance with an equally weakened team just last week?

Beat me to it Eirebhoy. And while we are hanging Benetiz and Fergie, get Mourinho out here, sure they were 1-0 down at home to 3rd division opposition.

super_furry

The Muppet wrote:

I dont Know about that, they still have their four european cups to keep them happy.

While you lot are as big a name in Europe as Nottingham Forest.

PHB

You don't seem to get it,

Liverpool don't have the squad that Utd and Chelsea and Arsenal have to rely on.
If they lose key players, or if they are tired, it is a real drain, and a cup run will definally do that for them.
Its hard enough with the premiership, CL, and League cup, without the FA Cup aswell.

He is a manager who is deciding to focus his resources elsewhere, and good for him to do it.
If you ask a liverpool fan which is more important, the FA Cup run or the CL spot, I wonder what they would pick?

----

p.s this isn't the same as Fergie.

Man Utd youths, indeed any premiership youths, should be able to beat a non-league team.

A liverpool reserve team should not easily walk over a championship team.

The Muppet

super_furry wrote:

While you lot are as big a name in Europe as Nottingham Forsest.

Keep it on topic now lads, you could have your turn tomorrow night.

Third_Echelon

PHB wrote:

You don't seem to get it,

Liverpool don't have the squad that Utd and Chelsea and Arsenal have to rely on.
If they lose key players, or if they are tired, it is a real drain, and a cup run will definally do that for them.
Its hard enough with the premiership, CL, and League cup, without the FA Cup aswell.

He is a manager who is deciding to focus his resources elsewhere, and good for him to do it.
If you ask a liverpool fan which is more important, the FA Cup run or the CL spot, I wonder what they would pick?

----

p.s this isn't the same as Fergie.

Man Utd youths, indeed any premiership youths, should be able to beat a non-league team.

A liverpool reserve team should not easily walk over a championship team.

eh the cup as its more attainable than the CL spot

Harry2001

super_furry wrote:

While you lot are as big a name in Europe as Nottingham Forest.

Not quiet as big, we won it twice in a row

mike65

The Muppet wrote:

Keep it on topic now lads, you could have your turn tomorrow night.

Fergie wont make that mistake again, this time millions will be watching on BBC1!

Mike.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

You don't seem to get it,

Liverpool don't have the squad that Utd and Chelsea and Arsenal have to rely on.
If they lose key players, or if they are tired, it is a real drain, and a cup run will definally do that for them.
Its hard enough with the premiership, CL, and League cup, without the FA Cup aswell.

He is a manager who is deciding to focus his resources elsewhere, and good for him to do it.
If you ask a liverpool fan which is more important, the FA Cup run or the CL spot, I wonder what they would pick?

Well said PHB.

Im very disappointed but Ill get over it. We are still in the Carling Cup, and the CL, there is plenty more cup action for us. 4th place is definately the priority.

The Muppet

mike65 wrote:

Fergie wont make that mistake again, this time millions will be watching on BBC1!

Mike.

Indeed Giggs and Neville are back for this one.

Brian017

Don't think Giggs is Muppet.

super_furry

That's just it though. The idea that finishing 4th in the league is more important than winning the FA Cup - it's bollox. I go on enough rants about the influence of money in football but in this case, I think I'm right. Finishing fourth is piss, it's not even a bronze medal and certainly nothing something that Liverpool FC should be proud of.

The 'Champions League' is to blame - Sepp Blatter and the rest of his muppets (no offence Muppet). Since when should fourth placed teams be in the Champions League? They barely deserve a place in the UEFA Cup. The FA Cup means something and should therefore warrant a place in the Champions League. The first two places in a countries' domestic league and the winners of their Cup - in this case the FA Cup - should be given entrance to the Champions League, the rest the UEFA Cup. Otherwise we'll continue on the road we're on at the moment when the European Cup will end up meaning nothing.

Shred

super_furry wrote:

Since when should fourth placed teams be in the Champions League? They barely deserve a place in the UEFA Cup. The FA Cup means something and should therefore warrant a place in the Champions League. The first two places in a countries' domestic league and the winners of their Cup - in this case the FA Cup - should be given entrance to the Champions League, the rest the UEFA Cup. Otherwise we'll continue on the road we're on at the moment when the European Cup will end up meaning nothing.

I totally agree with this.

PHB

(1)The FA Cup means something and should therefore warrant a place in the Champions League.
(2)The first two places in a countries' domestic league and the winners of their Cup - in this case the FA Cup - should be given entrance to the Champions League, the rest the UEFA Cup.
(3)Otherwise we'll continue on the road we're on at the moment when the European Cup will end up meaning nothing.

Please try to explain the causality between (2) and (3)

Brian017

Shred wrote:

I totally agree with this.

At last! Here, here

The Muppet

Brian017 wrote:

Don't think Giggs is Muppet.

He.s a 50/50 chance but is in the squad. I,d say he will start on the bench and see how things go.

Link

Brian017

Oh, how's Rio coming along?

The Muppet

super_furry wrote:

That's just it though. The idea that finishing 4th in the league is more important than winning the FA Cup - it's bollox. I go on enough rants about the influence of money in football but in this case, I think I'm right. Finishing fourth is piss, it's not even a bronze medal and certainly nothing something that Liverpool FC should be proud of.

The 'Champions League' is to blame - Sepp Blatter and the rest of his muppets (no offence Muppet). Since when should fourth placed teams be in the Champions League? They barely deserve a place in the UEFA Cup. The FA Cup means something and should therefore warrant a place in the Champions League. The first two places in a countries' domestic league and the winners of their Cup - in this case the FA Cup - should be given entrance to the Champions League, the rest the UEFA Cup. Otherwise we'll continue on the road we're on at the moment when the European Cup will end up meaning nothing.

I couldn't agree more.

d22ontour

super_furry wrote:

That's just it though. The idea that finishing 4th in the league is more important than winning the FA Cup - it's bollox. I go on enough rants about the influence of money in football but in this case, I think I'm right. Finishing fourth is piss, it's not even a bronze medal and certainly nothing something that Liverpool FC should be proud of

so winning the fa cup is more important than qualifying in fourth place for the champions league for liverpool

so how will liverpool be able to attract players to be able to get to the level required to mount some challenge for the title because without quality players you will continue as you are,not that i wouldn't mind

eirebhoy

A team goes through a ladder from the lower divisions to the premiership and finally the top of all is the champions league. Millwall played 3 division 1 teams, a divison 2 team and a non-league team to secure them a place in the FA cup final last. Do they really deserve to skip the promotion, staying up and years of building and get a champions league place from 5 matches against that kind of opposition?

yop

That was just classic, what a result against one of "europes top teams", fair play to Burnley, pure arrogance of Benitez to put that team out, what did he expect.
Super Burnley hey!!
I was actually going to be daft enough to put money on Burnley but I thought that pool could not be that bad, how wrong I was.
IF ever S Gerard needed to confirm that he should move on then this should have been it tonight, wonder what morientes is thinking!
Not a good week to be a scouser, beat in yer own back garden by a weak United team, then bent over in Burnley, reminds me of the good old Houllier days, except this is a Spanish revolution.

Gwan the Burnley

Ronan|Raven

I stated weeks back before the original fixture this had **** up written all over it and indeed it happeend. Playing such a weak team (yes the young lads have done well in the carling etc) in a **** pitch had disaster written all over it. Burnley fully deserved the win liverppol were terrible, young team or not you cant pass as badly as that and get away with it. Djimi does that little "turn" (dog chase tail) every week as left back, one should not do it infront of yer goal, 3 yards out when it is easier to thump it on yer bad foot into row wxyz! inexcusible.


the 4th place issue is a real issue and rightly so, champions league in term of prestige of the cash (highly important) and getting into it are of the upmost importance to most managers now. Look at UTDS line up against exeter and same with Liverpools tonight and as planned last week. they dont wanna risk the first team lads. The champions league is a joke I have always felt. bring back the days of where it was just the champions of the country's league and not a money idea of blatter and co.

uberwolf

super_furry wrote:

That's just it though. The idea that finishing 4th in the league is more important than winning the FA Cup - it's bollox. I go on enough rants about the influence of money in football but in this case, I think I'm right. Finishing fourth is piss, it's not even a bronze medal and certainly nothing something that Liverpool FC should be proud of.

Champs League place has prestige. More so than FA cup. All the players would tell you that.

Sure the history/tradition is worth maintaining but the CL has a prestige, a name in history quality than a premiership side winning the FA cup. A lower league side winning it is great. Premiership side - meh.

galactus

yop wrote:

fair play to Burnley, pure arrogance of Benitez to put that team out, what did he expect.

According to the BBC he's quoted as saying:
"We do the same in the Carling Cup and win"

Hmm. I don't know if Benitez realised what a huge game this was for Burnley.

Apart from getting one over on a Prem side, apart from the extra money generated, apart from Fergie having to apolgise to fans after only drawing against Exeter - this match is a local derby. Did he seriously expect Burnley to fold easily?

And what exactly was he resting players for? Liverpool's next match is against the might of...Southampton.

What on earth goes on in the mind of managers, I'll never know.

PS Come on Exeter!

uberwolf

galactus wrote:

And what exactly was he resting players for? Liverpool's next match is against the might of...Southampton.

What on earth goes on in the mind of managers, I'll never know.

it's a season. not just a series of matches. Players get injured more easily when they're tired. Each match must be seen in context and not as seperate entities.

galactus

uberwolf wrote:

it's a season. not just a series of matches. Players get injured more easily when they're tired. Each match must be seen in context and not as seperate entities.

Well, DUH! :-)

Just glad I'm not a Pool fan, I'd be livid at getting knocked out.

KdjaCL

uberwolf wrote:

Champs League place has prestige. More so than FA cup. All the players would tell you that.

Nothing to do with the massive bonuses they get for qualifying and after every match played in it.
But im sure its all football related.


kdjac

The Muppet

KdjaC wrote:

Nothing to do with the massive bonuses they get for qualifying and after every match played in it.
But im sure its all football related.


kdjac

Agreed. THe CL has only been around a few years and is all about money to the clubs . THe FA cup is steeped in history and is a wonderful competition largely because of Upsets like last night. IMO its wrong for any club not to take this competition seriously.

PiE

Anyone who still thinks the FA Cup is worth anything to todays top players/teams is looking at it through rose-tinted glasses.

galactus

PiE wrote:

Anyone who still thinks the FA Cup is worth anything to todays top players/teams is looking at it through rose-tinted glasses.

The value of anything is what people put on it.

This reminds me of a story I once heard about Roma fans:
- The youngsters want to win the Champions League
- The older fans want to win the scudeto (Serie A)
- For the really old fans the important thing is to beat Lazio

WhiteWashMan

The Muppet wrote:

Agreed. THe CL has only been around a few years and is all about money to the clubs . THe FA cup is steeped in history and is a wonderful competition largely because of Upsets like last night. IMO its wrong for any club not to take this competition seriously.

unfortuantely Man Utd destroyed this for everyone by opting to play in the club championships in s america a few years ago, and i will never ever be able to firgive them for that.

as far as i am concerned, the fa cup is the most prestigious cup in the world as far as knockout competitions go.
it is not the most important competition, but it is still the most prestigious.

and mostly because of results like last nights. the magic of the cup and all that.
seeing spurs getting knocked out last season by man city after being 3 nil up at half time. that was magic for all man city fans, and the 99% of neutrals watching would have thought it a wonderful game. that is why the FA cup is magnificent. not because of some cash incentive, but despite it.


however, i think there is an issue that needs to be addressed by the majority of liverpool fans. there is no debate for liverpool in the FA cup V league and cl place. the majority of pool fans seem to think they should be getting a 4th spot in the league. i dont. i think there are any number of teams that are better than them. i think liverpool have to work very very hard to get up that league table, and if they get a good cup run, then thats good. its much like tha majority of the teams in the premier. only aresenal, man utd and chelsea can have the arroganse to say they will be up there at the end of the season. in my view, liverpool will be lucky to get any european place. they scraped past spurs in the league cup in probably the second worse game in history (last nights game managing beyond belief to eclipse that) and they have no consistancy.
you can complain about other teams haveing bigger squads etc, but hey, get over it. we are all in the same boat unless you are one of the top three.

i fail to see how any liverpool supporter can say that any cup is not worth the bother, including the league cup. its a team, much like spurs, steeped in history and honour and tradition. but thats doesnt mean that in this league, at this time, you deserve to win anything. i think you have played poorly all season and gerrard has saved your bacon for far too long. when he is gone, you wont be doing an everton style revival. and i dont think bring in an unfit stricker is the answer to your problems. without gerrard, you have no midfield.

WhiteWashMan

galactus wrote:

The value of anything is what people put on it.

This reminds me of a story I once heard about Roma fans:
- The youngsters want to win the Champions League
- The older fans want to win the scudeto (Serie A)
- For the really old fans the important thing is to beat Lazio

i agree. and 100% of teams in england wnt to win it.
i have no problem with teams putting out youth teams. i think its sensible. but to put out a youth team and say you dont care is just wonrg.

by the way, if thats the future of liverpool playing in the cups, (sorry, cup. youre down to the single cup now) then id be very fúcking worried!
they are truely awful.
still. at least your not bolton.

The Muppet

WhiteWashMan wrote:

unfortuantely Man Utd destroyed this for everyone by opting to play in the club championships in s america a few years ago, and i will never ever be able to firgive them for that.

I,m surprised at you quoting that popular misconception. True Man Utd opted out of the F.A. Cup but only under pressure from the British Govt and the English FA who were under some misguided belief that Uniteds participation in the World club championships in Brazil that year would help England secure the 2112 world cup.

Its not really fair to blame United for that as they were in a no win situation. You may say they could have fielded a reserve team in the early stages but that really would have devalued the competition that year. Fergies stated opinion at the time was that if they couldn't field their strongest team they should not participate.

Imposter

WhiteWashMan wrote:

unfortuantely Man Utd destroyed this for everyone by opting to play in the club championships in s america a few years ago, and i will never ever be able to firgive them for that.

I know this has been discussed before but there was a lot of pressure on Man Utd to do that from both the FA and the government, so I think it's wrong of you just ot blame Utd for that.

And now to get back on topic and rehash an old favourite:
What's the difference between liverpool and a tea-bag?
The tea-bag stays in the cup longer.