IRA and the Nothern Bank Robbery

ArthurDent · 07-01-2005 2:04pm #1

Hugh Orde says IRA responsible

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0107/belfast.html

so how will this affect the peace process.
do we believe Martin McGuinness when he says IRA not responsible - I hope for his sake this is not another Gerry McCabe type denial

MrPudding · 07-01-2005 2:11pm

Great. Just what the peace process needs. If they are responsible how could they be so stupid and selfish.

Will Hugh be providing details of why be blames the PIRA?

MrP

marcowil · 07-01-2005 2:14pm

ArthurDent wrote:

Hugh Orde says IRA responsible

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0107/belfast.html

so how will this affect the peace process.
do we believe Martin McGuinness when he says IRA not responsible - I hope for his sake this is not another Gerry McCabe type denial

I would hazard a guess that they could claim this was not sanctioned by the IRA leadership as a whole but was carried out by brigades in Belfast acting on their own.

I hope, in the long-term, it does not stop a deal being done but I think we can forget about any breakthrough this side of the elections.

ArthurDent · 07-01-2005 2:22pm

From Sinn Fein press release

http://sinnfein.ie/news/detail/8006

Speaking on the Today programme on BBC Radio this morning Sinn Féin Chief Negotiator Martin McGuinness MP revealed that in the aftermath of the robbery on the Northern Bank in Belfast he had spoken to the IRA about this and was told that it was not involved.

Speaking in Belfast this morning Mr. McGuinness reiterated his view that "there are clearly elements within the British system and unionism intent on wrecking the peace process and of using the robbery in Belfast as a pretext for this. They must not be allowed to succeed."

and from his interview on News at One RTE - Martin McGuinness very firm on denial and says PNSI demonising IRA.

I sure hope no evidence is produced, either Martin McGuinness is very certain of his facts or playing for very high stakes here.

pork99 · 07-01-2005 2:27pm

They've taken us all, not just the DUP and the British Govt., for mugs.

It makes sense though, the money from America isn't as forthcoming as it used to be. There was a generation of Irish-Americans (basically people from the losing side in the Civil war and their offspring, who emigrated to the States in the 1920s) who would give the Provos as much money as they wanted but that source of income has been drying up steadily over the last 20 years as those generations died out. Also terrorism has got a bit of a bad name in the US over the last few years for some reason. So what's the alternative?.....

Villain · 07-01-2005 4:36pm

Hugh Orde shoule have kept his trap shut until he had evidence. I am certain that this robbery was NOT sanctioned by the army council. Hugh Orde has just handed Ian Paisley enough ammunition to bring the peace process to a total stand still. My god I would have thought Blair would have had some control over someone in his position making such statements.Bye Bye Peace process, hello violence.

mr_angry · 07-01-2005 4:40pm

He's entitled to his opinion, but I fail to see any evidence that confirms such an opinion. And to call a press conference and declare such a suspicion with no evidence is highly irresponsible of him, and an abuse of his position.

I'm no lover of the provos, but I'd like to see the peace process succeed, and he has severely damaged the chances of that happenning.

Horeb · 07-01-2005 4:42pm

What can I say mmmmmmmmmm well there we go the provo's at it again..

Peace Process Nil
Provos 22Million

As for Martin McG, well I really believe what he say's he is so Honest, as maybe Saddam.

In a way I am glad it clearly shows that the provo's and in general the republican leadership and their cronies are not be trusted !

ballooba · 07-01-2005 4:45pm

MrPudding wrote:

Great. Just what the peace process needs. If they are responsible how could they be so stupid and selfish.

Will Hugh be providing details of why be blames the PIRA?

MrP

Redundancy packages?

Villain · 07-01-2005 4:45pm

Horeb-Security wrote:

What can I say mmmmmmmmmm well there we go the provo's at it again..

Peace Process Nil
Provos 22Million

As for Martin McG, well I really believe what he say's he is so Honest, as maybe Saddam.

In a way I am glad it clearly shows that the provo's and in general the republican leadership and their cronies are not be trusted !

Great Post!! :rolleyes:

One word ........... Proof.
I thought people were Innocent until proven Guilty??

Oh sorry fogot that doesn't apply if your a Nationalist in Northern Ireland.

MrPudding · 07-01-2005 4:47pm

I know it is only his opinion but I would like to see a bit of evidence. I am no fan of the provies but I would hate to see the peace process fail because of 1 mans opinion. Did he not mention someting last year about there being "an anti peace process element" in the PSNI? Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that some of this may be made up?

MrP

mr_angry · 07-01-2005 4:51pm

Horeb-Security wrote:

In a way I am glad it clearly shows that the provo's and in general the republican leadership and their cronies are not be trusted !

If by clearly you mean clear-as-mud, then yes.

Genghis · 07-01-2005 4:51pm

I never believed that the Army Council of the IRA sanctioned this robbery, I actually think that they are 'struggling for peace'. That is not to say that certain sections of the IRA could have acted independently to pull this off. In either case, Mr Orde making comments that attribute blame without evidence is unprofessional, damaging and does nothing to present the PSNI as being an organisation that does not discriminate against one of the communities it serves.

I would have to say that the IRA leadership and people like Martin McGuinness probably have a good idea of who (individually) was involved. What are they going to do? Turn them over to a police force they don't trust, or as yet officially recognise? Sanction some form of punishment, and risk a further split in republicanism and leave themselves open to 'punishment beating activity' allegations?

Kingsize · 07-01-2005 4:52pm

well the robbers were dressed in police uniforms...................

Hobbes · 07-01-2005 4:57pm

Evidence.. put up or shut up.

Beyond that, if it was IRA members and it wasn't sanctioned then it is up to the IRA to shop them into the reconised police authority in NI.

07-01-2005 5:08pm

irish1 wrote:

Hugh Orde shoule have kept his trap shut until he had evidence. I am certain that this robbery was NOT sanctioned by the army council.

Are you suggesting that it was possibly an IRA unit acting on their own?

My god I would have thought Blair would have had some control over someone in his position making such statements.

My God, I would have thought the IRA would have had some control over people making such robberies, given that if they are republicans working outside of p'o' neils sanction they also have access to guns and explosives.

Bye Bye Peace process, hello violence.

By whom? The IRA? you do realise that if they go back to violence, SF's vote will go to tatters...
As regards the robbery, theres no way that should be shoved under the carpet.
If the IRA (sanctioned or not which is really immaterial as those that sanction are not doing it transparently and therefore are irrelevant to the seriousness of who is involved in the crime) are involved in cosy criminality, any deal should be conditional on it stopping.

At this rate the Adare killers can sit back, their 5 star accomadation is safe for another while.

Nuttzz · 07-01-2005 5:22pm

Is it me or wasnt the whole Jerry McCabe Murder / Attempted robbery carried out by IRA members without Army council sanction? What makes you think that this isnt any different.

Lets be honest only the provos have the skill to pull off a stunt like this and cover their tracks effectively, you cant expect the Johnny Adair Unionist types to have the brains to do this.

Boggle · 07-01-2005 5:25pm

Regardless of your opinion of the IRA and whether you think they did the crime you do have to admit that Horde has put the peace process in jeopardy with his statements.

It'd be one thing if you had proof but, in this case, at best he has a hunch, at worst he has a vendetta....

Villain · 07-01-2005 5:57pm

Earthman wrote:

Are you suggesting that it was possibly an IRA unit acting on their own?

Of course it's possible, but sher anything is possible.

Earthman wrote:

My God, I would have thought the IRA would have had some control over people making such robberies, given that if they are republicans working outside of p'o' neils sanction they also have access to guns and explosives.

Comparing the IRA organisation to that of the British Justice System interesting!!

Eathman, anyone that has been following the events of the last few months, knows that certain members of the IRA are not happy with the organisation disarming.

Earthman wrote:

By whom? The IRA? you do realise that if they go back to violence, SF's vote will go to tatters...
As regards the robbery, theres no way that should be shoved under the carpet.
If the IRA (sanctioned or not which is really immaterial as those that sanction are not doing it transparently and therefore are irrelevant to the seriousness of who is involved in the crime) are involved in cosy criminality, any deal should be conditional on it stopping.

At this rate the Adare killers can sit back, their 5 star accomadation is safe for another while.

Without a peace process Violence will occur thats just common sense Earthman.

Boggle wrote:

Regardless of your opinion of the IRA and whether you think they did the crime you do have to admit that Horde has put the peace process in jeopardy with his statements.

It'd be one thing if you had proof but, in this case, at best he has a hunch, at worst he has a vendetta....

Well said.

mike65 · 07-01-2005 6:30pm

ArthurDent wrote:

From Sinn Fein press release

and from his interview on News at One RTE - Martin McGuinness very firm on denial and says PNSI demonising IRA.

I sure hope no evidence is produced, either Martin McGuinness is very certain of his facts or playing for very high stakes here.

That thought struck me strongly. Never say never. Ever. He really should have left open the door marked "retirement fund chancers" so leave him room to manoveour.

I see the Northern Bank have finally taken the decision to withdraw all the sequenced local notes which will leave about 5 mill in booty.

Mike.

daveirl · 07-01-2005 7:33pm

This post has been deleted.

oscarBravo · 07-01-2005 7:42pm

Who's to say he doesn't have evidence? It's not inconceivable that he does have evidence, but that he's not at liberty to disclose it for operational reasons.

mr_angry · 07-01-2005 7:43pm

Then whats the point of him opening his big mouth in the first place???

oscarBravo · 07-01-2005 7:50pm

If the provos were involved, it impacts materially on the peace process.

dregin · 07-01-2005 7:51pm

Did he actually say he had evidence to backup the claim? I wouldn't think he'd do something like this without some solid evidence to go on. It's a petty the unionists have been so quick to believe the IRA were envolved before a trial has proven it so. Maybe they've access to information that we don't, maybe they trust Hugh Orde's judgement.

It's a sad day.

07-01-2005 8:10pm

mr_angry wrote:

Then whats the point of him opening his big mouth in the first place???

I'll take a guess and say the DUP have plenty of contacts in the PSNI privy to sensitive information and that they were going to do a leak to the papers.
He jumped their gun.

It changes little in that case as the guys that have to go into government with SF would have used this unofficially(or a newspaper leak) as an excuse not to anyway and probably dreamed up any excuse in the book to further delay the process.

Nuttzz · 07-01-2005 9:06pm

lol
http://www.portadownnews.com/

TomF · 07-01-2005 9:16pm

If it was the Provisional IRA (a big "if", in my opinion) I have to wonder what was the reason for the robbery. Was it to get pension money for the activists who are to be retired under the provisions of the PP? Or is it to get campaign funds for the next elections?

true · 07-01-2005 9:21pm

Gerry Adams says he was not in the IRA and everyone knows he was.
The IRA were caught out so often, from Adare to Columbia.
Gerry Adams says the IRA was not involved in the robbery and who believes him ?

Hugh Orde said the police do have evidence pointing in a certain direction, but they are not at liberty to disclose this information , at least not yet. That is the right of any police force.

Another interesting little aside : if you look up any of the extreme republican websites / discussion boards over the last few weeks you have all of the self proclaimed provo sympathisers bragging about " their " robbery.

Cork · 07-01-2005 10:12pm

true wrote:

The IRA were caught out so often, from Adare to Columbia.
Gerry Adams says the IRA was not involved in the robbery and who believes him ?

The IRA has debased the Good Friday Agreement. It is time and Admas and his party got off the fence and faced up to the IRA.

I think Michael McDowell brought the continued activity of the IRA to our attention. He is not afraid to show us the continued criminality of the IRA.

The Columbia 3 are now fugitives. Hard decisions now have to be made by SF. If the shirk decisions - then they need to be excluded from democratic politics and section 31 should be re-introduced.

The policy of the armalite and ballot box is not a policy acceptable to democrats.

A Dub in Glasgo · 07-01-2005 10:40pm

Cork wrote:

then they need to be excluded from democratic politics and section 31 should be re-introduced.

.

lol

How democratic of you

IRA and the Nothern Bank Robbery

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