IRA and the Nothern Bank Robbery

Cork

No member of the IRA can be a criminal, Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams claimed today.

Link

The Good Friday agreement has been trashed because of criminality.

Sand

How democratic of you

And having a terrorist group/organised crime syndicate under the table makes you....democratic?

A Dub in Glasgo

So, in order to show how democratic you are, you would implement an exclusion of the views of hundreds of thousands of people who exercised their democratic right to vote. You would also deny the freedom of speech to those hundreds of thousands people.

Yeah, very democratic of you.

Cork

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You would also deny the freedom of speech to those hundreds of thousands people.

Yeah, very democratic of you.

There is nothing democratic about the policy of the armalite and the ballot box.

No member of the IRA can be a criminal, Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams claimed today.

Punishment beatings?

Sand

So, in order to show how democratic you are, you would implement an exclusion of the views of hundreds of thousands of people who exercised their democratic right to vote. You would also deny the freedom of speech to those hundreds of thousands people.

If their view is they want to support a party that leaves terrorism/organised crime as an option then honestly - **** them and their ****ing warped views

Honestly, if it is the IRA that is shown to be have committed this crime then can you honestly say that Sinn Fein given their "links" :rolleyes: with the IRA can be taken seriously when commenting on say tax evasion or street crime? I actually feel sorry for Sinn Fein supporters because for as long as the IRA is part of their baggage I and others can beat them up on any topic where SF trys to take the high moral ground.

I wouldnt be surprised at all if it was the IRA - who else has access to the manpower, the weapons, the organisational and intelligence capability to carry out such an act in Northern Ireland, let alone the money laundering network to dispose of such an immense amount of cash quickly? With the planning that went into it they cant have failed to recognise the need to get rid of the notes quickly. And the tactic of kidnapping families to terrorise a husband/father into carrying out a task is an old IRA favourite - several bombs were delivered to their targets by the fathers of children held captive by brave patriotic IRA men threatening to murder wives and children - the evil mother****ers. Drug dealers in the North cant make a penny without giving a cut to the IRA. Are we supposed to believe theres some independant crime syndicate in the North thats developed the skills and sheer ruthlessness to carry out this act but has somehow remained hidden until now? The loyalists you might say, but theyve never been really able to carry out anything as sophisticated in scope or scale as the IRA has.

Orde might hasnt said the IRA did do it, hes said theyre the prime suspects which is what the dogs on the street know ffs. As for the argument Blair should have put political pressure on him to silence him - thats ridiculous. Its the fear of calling SF/IRA on their misdemeanors that has led to this state of affairs where SF/IRA hold both governments and their peoples in utter contempt. When SF/IRA men were found running an intelligence operation/apparent punishment squad against Dail TDs and Dublin crime figures everyone was terrified to say anything to Adams in case he walked from the deal, or Paisley got ammo to shoot them down. Well, the deal collapsed anyway like everyone knew it would when you consider the unreformed nature of the participants and the lesson Adams got was he and his terrorist buddies could brazen out just about anything.

And the peace process will continue to founder for as long as we let SF/IRA believe they can join government and yet not have to suffer consequences for engaging in terrorist/crinimal behaviour - not because we dont let them think they can have their cake and eat it.

Cork

Sand wrote:

And the peace process will continue to founder for as long as we let SF/IRA believe they can join government and yet not have to suffer consequences for engaging in terrorist/crinimal behaviour - not because we dont let them think they can have their cake and eat it.

I think Sand - you have hit the nail on the head.

I think SF has got to make up its mind. It is ironic that SF is now looking for evidence that the IRA were involved in this bank robbery. But what evidence do the IRA look for in their kangaroo courts?

Despite the IMC report and evidence of IRA activity around Dublin Port - deniels of IRA activity don't cut much ice.

Years after we Good Friday Agreement - It is under threat from an illegal organisation that still has access to weapons.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Without a peace process Violence will occur thats just common sense Earthman.

I asked by whom?
Sounds like you take it as read that "someone" who doesn't get what they want by political means will return to violence.
Is that someone the IRA?
Do you seriously think that Adams/McGuinness would risk the street cred that they gained over the last few years by allowing that to happen?
I categorically doubt it, just as I doubt that the "fierce" IRA is so loose as to not know what elements within it are doing.
Going on peoples experiences in the Public domain,I'd say to disobey orders from the top of the IRA would be a perilous decision...


I'll repeat, the IRA and by extension SF are getting the tough time that they get because , the IRA want jam on both sides of the bread.
They seem to think they can continue criminality and expect not to be challenged on it.
WAR is not an option for them anymore, as the bridge SF has built with southern voters would be burned.
The bridge is a single lane carriageway, it would take the end of criminality and in my view a softening of their more left of left wing policies for the second lane to be opened on that bridge...

AmenToThat

Cork wrote:

There is nothing democratic about the policy of the armalite and the ballot box.



Punishment beatings?

And by reintroducing section 31 you believe the peoples faith democracy will be restored?
You will have to explain that one to me.

As for the robbery, Im sure it was the provos but thats not the point!
I have no evidence it was them.............neither it would seem have the PSNI/RUC.
This will do nothing to restore the confidence of many nationalist/republicans that the PSNI/RUC have changed, its smells of vendetta to me.
I believe todays news conference may in the long run have done more to harm the peace process than the actual bank robbery and as suggested earlier Im sure the DUP had a major part to play in todays statement as they will have encouraged their many supporters within all sections of the Northern establishment that this would be a perfect tool for wrangling out of power sharing with nationalists/republicans.

true

Lets be fair : the PSNI did say they have evidence which points in a certain direction : however it would compromise the investigation at this stage to disclose that evidence. That is the right of every police service in the world.

The real damage to the peace process has come from certain sections of society not "being seen " to decommission their weapons OR offer proof that the weapons / explosives have been decommissioned. The numerous serious "crimes" commited by the paramilitaries, plus a question mark over a certain bird watching expedition to a FARC controlled area in Columbia, has not helped.

elivsvonchiaing

Earthman wrote:

I asked by whom?
Sounds like you take it as read that "someone" who doesn't get what they want by political means will return to violence.
Is that someone the IRA?

This sounds like the RIRA tbh! Think what was intended!

Earthman wrote:

Do you seriously think that Adams/McGuinness would risk the street cred that they gained over the last few years by allowing that to happen?
I categorically doubt it, just as I doubt that the "fierce" IRA is so loose as to not know what elements within it are doing.

They have no control over these bastards - QED!

Earthman wrote:

Going on peoples experiences in the Public domainI'd say to disobey orders from the top of the IRA would be a perilous decision...

Perilous, if they could be identified

Earthman wrote:

I'll repeat, the IRA and by extension SF are getting the tough time that they get because , the IRA want jam on both sides of the bread.
They seem to think they can continue criminality and expect not to be challenged on it.

Assuming they can identify who the RIRA bastards are - they need very little evidence - that's how they operate!

Earthman wrote:

WAR is not an option for them anymore, as the bridge SF has built with southern voters would be burned.
The bridge is a single lane carriageway, it would take the end of criminality and in my view a softening of their more left of left wing policies for the second lane to be opened on that bridge...

Shudders! Think we need a new nationalist party here tbh... (The damage has been done - think this is the only way - doesn't have to be a splinter group of Sinn Feinn imho)

FTA69

Nuttzz wrote:

Is it me or wasnt the whole Jerry McCabe Murder / Attempted robbery carried out by IRA members without Army council sanction? What makes you think that this isnt any different.

Lets be honest only the provos have the skill to pull off a stunt like this and cover their tracks effectively, you cant expect the Johnny Adair Unionist types to have the brains to do this.

The Adare robbery was a routine operation in a time when the IRA was off ceasefire, it was a completely different time politically both for Republicanism and the country in general. 7 years since the resumption of the Cessation it is highly impractical that the IRA would pull off such an operation. All the money in the world would not be worth the political ramifications to be had if the IRA were proved responsible.

As regards "skill", the great train robbery in England was undertaken by small-time criminals with no serious reputation at all. Stranger things have happened, besides, such organisations as the INLA and UVF are not bunglers.

FTA69

Sand wrote:

Drug dealers in the North cant make a penny without giving a cut to the IRA.

Says who? The pigs? The Sunday Independent? MI5?

The IRA's record on drugs speaks for itself ie Martin Foley, Mickey Mooney, PJ Judge as well as the Republican involvement in COCAD and the CPAD. Republicans are not nor ever have been involved in the drug trade in this country, maybe if you had experience on the subject you would be better positioned to comment on it, however considering you don't I suggest you stop regurgitating rubbish to suit your agenda.

FTA69

Cork wrote:

I think Sand - you have hit the nail on the head.

I think SF has got to make up its mind. It is ironic that SF is now looking for evidence that the IRA were involved in this bank robbery. But what evidence do the IRA look for in their kangaroo courts?

Despite the IMC report and evidence of IRA activity around Dublin Port - deniels of IRA activity don't cut much ice.

Years after we Good Friday Agreement - It is under threat from an illegal organisation that still has access to weapons.

Sinn Féin hasn't conducted a "kangaroo court" since about 1923, the fact which you are failing to understand is that the IRA and Sinn Féin are seperate organisations. They take their own decisions through their own command structure and Sinn Féin also makes its own decisions. Whether the IRA decides to carry out a punishment attack on a death rider or drug dealer is not a decision for Sinn Féin and as such is not their responsibility.

As regards allegations, what "evidence" has there been of port activities Cork? By that I mean evidence, not more links to more allegations on behalf of MocDowell etc. The IMC has also failed to produce any meaningful evidence to substantiate their ludicrous claims.

Finally, the GFA is under more threat from the likes of Paisley and rejectionist unionists as well as brit securocrats than it is from Republicans.

arcadegame2004

I suspect that it was the IRA but I can't be certain. Remember what happened before when they arrested people over the supposed-IRA spyring in Stormont and then the trials collapsed. I have a certain degree of distrust of today's announcement, but on balance I think the IRA, or members thereof, carried out this criminal act against society.

Nevyn

Well it does look like they were making sure that they had enough money to go shopping for new guns of the need arose after they supossedly put thiers beyond use.

FTA69

There is no "supposedness" regarding IRA decommissioning, it took place three times and was verified independently. Your comment regarding the bank robbery is irrelevant really considering there is no proof that the IRA carried it out.

David Office

ArthurDent wrote:

From Sinn Fein press release

http://sinnfein.ie/news/detail/8006

Speaking on the Today programme on BBC Radio this morning Sinn Féin Chief Negotiator Martin McGuinness MP revealed that in the aftermath of the robbery on the Northern Bank in Belfast he had spoken to the IRA about this and was told that it was not involved.

Speaking in Belfast this morning Mr. McGuinness reiterated his view that "there are clearly elements within the British system and unionism intent on wrecking the peace process and of using the robbery in Belfast as a pretext for this. They must not be allowed to succeed."

If Martin McGuinness stated that the IRA were not involved - then that statement must be accurate - He should know- because it is a well known fact that he in number two in the IRA Council and Mr Adams (despite his denials) is number three.
Unfortunately I feel he is lying through his teeth once again.

The Unionists may be intent on "wrecking the peace process" however Mr McGuinness and his cohorts are not helping much either!!! :mad:

smiaras

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luckat

I've had houses robbed three times and bikes stolen twice; in all five cases the Guards assured me "Oh, we know who did it all right."

Unfortunately, I'm still waiting to get any of my stuff back, all these years later.

Maybe the IRA did the robbery, maybe they didn't. When the police have the evidence to *prove who did the robbery*, then they should come out, not with a statement, but with a prosecution.

Incidentally, True, what are all these extremist republican websites and bulletin boards where everyone's boasting that their lads did the great deed? Web addresses?

A Dub in Glasgo

luckat wrote:

Incidentally, True, what are all these extremist republican websites and bulletin boards where everyone's boasting that their lads did the great deed? Web addresses?

http://www.werobbedthenib.ie

http://www.itwasus.ie

http://www.weshaftedthepeaceprocessbyrobbingthebank.ie

elivsvonchiaing

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

http://www.werobbedthenib.ie

http://www.itwasus.ie

http://www.weshaftedthepeaceprocessbyrobbingthebank.ie

Hmm reckon these sites are where the "evidence" was gathered... :rolleyes:

Villain

LOL, theres enough accusations in this thread to keep the PSNI busy for years.

First of all Sand either put up proof of your accusations that the IRA are involved in Drug dealing or shut up, I'm sick of tired of people throwing out the same accusations time after time without providing a shred of proof. Also it is far from redicilous to say that Blair should have put pressure on Orde to keep quite until he had real evidence to prove that the IRA carried out this robbery

David Office can you prove that Adams and McGuinness are on the army council??? I challenge you that you can't, and you wanna know why I'm so sure because they bloody well aren't.

Cork, Michael McDowell recently stated that he believed all IRA criminality down south has ceased, so stop throwing out old news and making it todays news to suit your opinion. If you exclude SF from the democratic process in NI you will have no democratic process left, thats not a threat just common sense.

Earthman, I said Violence will occur, I never said it would be by the IRA, but the IRA cannot control every republican in NI, there are break away groups such as the RIRA who would love to see the Peace Process fail so they could use it to gain members and start a campaign of terror.

Now if the PSNI are so sure that the IRA carried out this robbery lets see some arrests, I mean there was over 20 people involved £27.5 million is stashed somewhere surely to god any police force who knows who done it would have made some arrests by now.

I have an idea, offer £3 million pounds plus a new life with a new idenity to anyone who can present information leading to the convinction of the robbers, that should be enough to get someone to talk so we can find out for sure who done it rather than everyone using this robbery as a Political football.

Cork

FTA69 wrote:

the fact which you are failing to understand is that the IRA and Sinn Féin are seperate organisations. They take their own decisions through their own command structure and Sinn Féin also makes its own decisions. Whether the IRA decides to carry out a punishment attack on a death rider or drug dealer is not a decision for Sinn Féin and as such is not their responsibility.



Finally, the GFA is under more threat from the likes of Paisley and rejectionist unionists as well as brit securocrats than it is from Republicans.

It’s no use anyone pretending that there is not a crossover between the IRA and Sinn Fein. The whole Republican Movement has evolved out of the conflict over the national question here. Sinn Fein still twists itself into knots over this issue. The idea, for instance, that Gerry Adams has never been in the IRA is laughable.
The problem was that the Republican Movement was at war with the British and in a semi-war with the State down here. Over the course of the past thirty years that has inevitable led to a culture in the movement of subterfuge and general murkiness. People had to lie about IRA membership. Banks had to be robbed to buy guns. Sinn Feiners on the one side and gardai and the justice apparatus on the other developed a mutual loathing.
QUOTE]

Link

Suvalance Operations on democrats is not acceptable from SF members.

The IRA has now left the Good Friday Agreement in tatters. They yet have to decomission and rule out criminality.The unionists or PSNI are always balmed.. The one thing that amazes me about SF is that it seldom takes responsibility. Sinn Fein man Niall Binead is now in prison. Some Shinners probably believe it is a mis carriage of justice.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

David Office

irish1 wrote:

LOL, theres enough accusations in this thread to keep the PSNI busy for years.

David Office can you prove that Adams and McGuinness are on the army council??? I challenge you that you can't, and you wanna know why I'm so sure because they bloody well aren't.

My friend can you offer proof that they are not - apart from some ham fisted denials throughout the past three years by Adams that he was never (laughable) or isnt a member of the IRA. Most of the respected security corrs in the country are in agreement that both McGuinness and Adams are high on the council. Vincent Browne even did half of a show on this very issue in April of last year. Which incidentally included a very curious incident while the names of the Army Council were being read out by a well recognised correspondent.
And I ask you again - how are you so sure "they bloody well aren't"

oscarBravo

irish1 wrote:

Also it is far from redicilous to say that Blair should have put pressure on Orde to keep quite until he had real evidence to prove that the IRA carried out this robbery

You're working on the assumption that he doesn't have such evidence.

It's not unusual for a police force to indicate the direction their investigations are taking; it's also not unusual for them to be tight-lipped as to the actual evidence they have.

irish1 wrote:

Now if the PSNI are so sure that the IRA carried out this robbery lets see some arrests, I mean there was over 20 people involved £27.5 million is stashed somewhere surely to god any police force who knows who done it would have made some arrests by now.

You're confusing evidence with proof.

irish1 wrote:

I have an idea, offer £3 million pounds plus a new life with a new idenity to anyone who can present information leading to the convinction of the robbers, that should be enough to get someone to talk so we can find out for sure who done it rather than everyone using this robbery as a Political football.

Don't know about you, but I'm quite happy with the life I have.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Villain

David Office
And I ask you again - how are you so sure "they bloody well aren't"

Because I know they aren't, your the one throwing the accusations around so show me something to prove it.

Do you honestly believe that Tony Blair would invite two members of the IRA army council to No.10 Downing street???

Cork

irish1 wrote:

Cork, Michael McDowell recently stated that he believed all IRA criminality down south has ceased, so stop throwing out old news and making it todays news to suit your opinion. If you exclude SF from the democratic process in NI you will have no democratic process left, thats not a threat just common sense.

.

I

JUSTICE Minister Michael McDowell yesterday laid down the Government’s strongest marker on republican links with criminality, asserting there was no possibility of an agreement without a clear statement from the IRA on this issue.

Link

We are still waiting for a clear statement from the IRA on criminality.

Even after the coviction of Niall Bennett - the IRA still refuses to issue such a statement.

After the NI bank raid - Still no statement from the IRA.

And democrats are to accept this? Thanks to the IRA and their supporters - the Good Friday Agreement is in tatters.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

Because I know they aren't, your the one throwing the accusations around so show me something to prove it.

Do you honestly believe that Tony Blair would invite two members of the IRA army council to No.10 Downing street???

Have SF members not sat on the IRA army council?

It’s no use anyone pretending that there is not a crossover between the IRA and Sinn Fein. The whole Republican Movement has evolved out of the conflict over the national question here. Sinn Fein still twists itself into knots over this issue. The idea, for instance, that Gerry Adams has never been in the IRA is laughable.