IRA and the Nothern Bank Robbery

oscarBravo

irish1 wrote:

Because I know they aren't, your the one throwing the accusations around so show me something to prove it.

You "know" as in you're like 100% sure, or you "know" as in you have concrete proof? If it's the former, what makes it more valid than those who "know" they are? If the latter, why not settle the question here and now?

irish1 wrote:

Do you honestly believe that Tony Blair would invite two members of the IRA army council to No.10 Downing street???

Is that your proof?

Villain

LOL Cork, give it up:

More recent article which states McDowell's belief that criminality by the IRA has stopped in the ROI

Cork wrote:

Have SF members not sat on the IRA army council?

No Current SF member is on the Army Council, that I know, I don't know if they were in the past.

OscarBravo, No thats not my proof, I don't have any proof on paper, but I do know it to be true.

Do you honestly believe that Tony Blair and Hugh Orde would publicy meet 2 members of the IRA army council.

Sand

Yeah, good thing I saved that word file for Irish 1- Ill restrain myself to Adams for now..

Gerry Adams, President:
Convicted IRA bomber Dolours Price, described Gerry Adams as her commanding officer at the time of her involvement in a 4 car bomb on London, March 8th, 1973 at a republican event in February 2001 – Irish Echo Newspaper Corp, March 2001.

His father was a IRA member convicted for shooting RUC officers.

He was interned in 1971, but was senior enough in some republican organisation to be released in July 1972 to take part in secret talks between the IRA and NI Secretary Whitelaw. He was 23 years old. He did not become president of SF for another 11 years.

Has refused to confirm or deny his IRA membership, claiming he could get 10 years for it.

And if Irish 1 would do us the favour of listing the members of the IRA Army Council so we can confirm that Adams is not on that list....

As for FTA and Irish 1s horror at accusations that the IRA "taxes" drug gangs, can they explain why SF/IRA man Binnead had a list of dublin crime figures in his house? Was he going to kill them all? There are lots of drug dealers in Ireland, yet only a handful have been attacked or killed over decades. Why is that? was the IRA too busy killing mothers like Jean McConville to battle the appalling evil of the drug scourge instead?

And as for the drug dealers who the IRA have killed, like The General before them they were killed for either not paying the IRA their cut ( I think the Generals words went something like "Let them go out and rob their own ****ing banks", advice they have seemingly taken to heart ) or for consorting with Loyalists - i.e. paying the Loyalists money instead.

Villain

Sand wrote:

Yeah, good thing I saved that word file for Irish 1- Ill restrain myself to Adams for now..

And if Irish 1 would do us the favour of listing the members of the IRA Army Council so we can confirm that Adams is not on that list....

As for FTA and Irish 1s horror at accusations that the IRA "taxes" drug gangs, can they explain why SF/IRA man Binnead had a list of dublin crime figures in his house? Was he going to kill them all? There are lots of drug dealers in Ireland, yet only a handful have been attacked or killed over decades. Why is that? was the IRA too busy killing mothers like Jean McConville to battle the appalling evil of the drug scourge instead?

And as for the drug dealers who the IRA have killed, like The General before them they were killed for either not paying the IRA their cut ( I think the Generals words went something like "Let them go out and rob their own ****ing banks", advice they have seemingly taken to heart ) or for consorting with Loyalists - i.e. paying the Loyalists money instead.

Still living in the past and on the word of one woman!!

So because the IRA aren't killing drug dealers they must hitting they for money!!! Get Real Sand and stop living in the past.

BTW this thread is about the IRA and the Northern Bank robbery, but as usual the same old faces turn it into a SF bashing thread :rolleyes:

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Because I know they aren't,

How do you know this?

Do you honestly believe that Tony Blair and Hugh Orde would publicy meet 2 members of the IRA army council.

Of course they would, both are mp's and theres a peace process in train.
Thats entirely separate to their "position" within the IRA if they hold a position.


It's all perception, perception, perception and the Irish people didnt come down in the last shower.

the IRA cannot control every republican in NI, there are break away groups such as the RIRA who would love to see the Peace Process fail so they could use it to gain members and start a campaign of terror.

Yes and you know as well as I do that the IRA know exactly who these people are and that their "code of honour" wont allow them to squeal...
You can be darn sure that Adams and McGuinness are close enough to the IRA to know too.
I'm sure you will come along now and say no thats wrong. Well its the most widely held perception and the only way to get rid of that perception is to cut out the criminality and deliver an ultimatum to the RIRA and CIRA guys.

To be honest with you , I'm of the view that membership of PIRA,CIRA and RIRA is from a common base and that many in PIRA are so hard minded regardless of the peace process that they will continue whatever they see fit under the C or R guise in complete contempt for democracy after any agreement is finalised.
They can expect a tough time with the law though and SF will in most peoples eyes continue to suffer the embarassment of their existance.

Cork

No member of the IRA can be a criminal, Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams claimed today.

link

After Binead and Donohoe were arrested, a garda search of Binead’s house found a list naming leading Irish politicians including former Justice Minister John O’Donoghue, Fine Gael’s Jim Mitchell and Des O’Malley of the Progressive Democrats.

link

Mr Adams said there could be no link whatsoever between republican activism and criminality.

"You cannot be a criminal and a republican activist. You cannot be involved in any criminality and involved in republican activism," Mr Adams said..

link

"You cannot be a criminal and a republican activist.

Mr O’Snodaigh previously described Binead’s conviction as unsafe.

link

SF seem to be absolute deniel about IRA activity.

irish1, Could you point to one statement from a SF TD, MEP, MP or MLA critical of Binead?

Villain

Cork wrote:

link



link



link





link

SF seem to be absolute deniel about IRA activity.

irish1, Could you point to one statement from a SF TD, MEP, MP or MLA critical of Binead?

Whats wrong didn't my link to the article showing your use of old news not work???

As usual if all else fails dodge the issue, get back on topic Cork.

BuffyBot

How do you know this?

Because no one in that organisation would ever lie. Dontcha know

oscarBravo

irish1 wrote:

OscarBravo, No thats not my proof, I don't have any proof on paper, but I do know it to be true.

How does that differ from the dogs in the street knowing it to be false?

Cork

irish1 wrote:

Whats wrong didn't my link to the article showing your use of old news not work???

As usual if all else fails dodge the issue, get back on topic Cork.

But it is alwys the same old story with the IRA. They still have not gone away. They are still active.

Should we not highlight statements such as:

No member of the IRA can be a criminal, Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams claimed today.

The Peace Process is in tatters thanks to an illegal grouping that should have been wound up years ago. Its weapons are being used as bargaining chips.

This is not acceptable.

The Taoiseach, Mr Ahern, has said the Provisional IRA will have to make "demonstrable commitments" to end all of its criminal activities after the PSNI blamed the paramilitary organisation for the £26.5 million Northern Bank raid.

I hope the SF leadership will now realise that all IRA activity has to stop. The continued existance of the IRA is an insult to democrats on this island.

Not alone was the IRA still active but senior members of Sinn Féin were involved in a senior level of the organisation, the IMC concluded in its most serious findings.

Link



In the mean time - the peace process is in tatters.

FTA69

Sand wrote:

As for FTA and Irish 1s horror at accusations that the IRA "taxes" drug gangs, can they explain why SF/IRA man Binnead had a list of dublin crime figures in his house? Was he going to kill them all? There are lots of drug dealers in Ireland, yet only a handful have been attacked or killed over decades. Why is that? was the IRA too busy killing mothers like Jean McConville to battle the appalling evil of the drug scourge instead?

And as for the drug dealers who the IRA have killed, like The General before them they were killed for either not paying the IRA their cut ( I think the Generals words went something like "Let them go out and rob their own ****ing banks", advice they have seemingly taken to heart ) or for consorting with Loyalists - i.e. paying the Loyalists money instead.

Martin Cahill AKA "The General" was not a drug dealer, he specified in armed robberies however, many of his associates were involved in drugs ie Martin Cahill who was shot on two seperate occasions by the IRA.

Regards Niall Binéad, the possesion of names on a list is not a crime at all. Also, Sand you would do well to know that one practice of anti-drugs groups and individuals involves the compiling of details on drug dealers and their movements. I suppose the CPAD in the 80s planned to extort drug dealers as well did they?

The IRA also did not have the capacity to challenge every drug-dealer in the country, they did however attack the main culprits such as PJ Judge and Mickey Mooney.

Cork

FTA69 wrote:

Regards Niall Binéad, the possesion of names on a list is not a crime at all.

But what Niall Binead was found guilty of last week was of a different order from all that has gone on before. He is a senior activist in the constituency organisation of the Sinn Féin TD Aengus Ó Snodaigh. He was arrested after gardaí investigated a van in Bray. The van had been lent to Sinn Féin - for "election purposes". Inside the van, gardaí found four men as well as a sledgehammer, a black balaclava, a pickaxe handle, radios, and a fluorescent jacket with the word "Garda" on it.

Some election.

In a nearby Nissan Almera car with false numberplates they found a blue flashing beacon, a Long Kesh baseball cap, a stun gun, a canister of CS gas and a roll of masking tape. A subsequent raid on Binead's home revealed that he had intelligence details on the movement of TDs, and on no fewer than three ministers for justice. Other documents found in the Binead home were regarded as too sensitive for disclosure - which is just marvellous. The IRA can know these things, the Garda Special Branch can know them, as can the Special Criminal Court - but the plain people of Ireland, who underwrite all this, may not.

What was Aengus Ó Snodaigh's response to the shocking disclosures before the Special Criminal Court? Why, it was to call for the Court's closure, of course. "There is huge outrage and anger that once again we have seen people convicted of IRA membership, not on any evidence, but on the word of a Garda superintendent." And he's right to be angry. The poor dear's confused.

For the entire Sinn Féin-IRA tribe has been given every reason to believe, almost time without number, that they are immune to the law. There was the Castlereagh break-in by the IRA, in which the IRA made off with the master-disk of British intelligence in the North, but there was no political price to be paid.

This was followed by the Stormont spying scandal, and instead of Sinn Féin being suspended from the Executive, the entire process was put into suspension. The unionists were thus punished equally with the culprits. Who then paid the electoral price for this? Why, poor dead David Trimble did, that's who, while Shinners dipped their digestives into their tea at Downing Street and nodded sympathetically while Tony Blair lamented about Gordon Brown.

So of course the Shinners believed they had the right to break the law
whenever they wanted, and on either side of the Border. What a hideous shock it must have been for them to run into dedicated, professional police officers such as Garda Michael Masterson, Chief Superintendent Philip Kelly, and Sergeant Joe Devine. It was men such as these - outstanding and conscientious individuals - who protected this State from fascist subversion and naked terrorism through the years, and do so still.

On the other hand we have Aengus Ó Snodaigh, whose high regard for An Garda Síochána is such that he - with three other Shinner TDs - grinningly posed in Castlerea prison with the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe. Sinn Féin-IRA never felt the cold breath of exclusion for this grisly post-facto endorsement of a vile and wicked deed, so naturally they thought that - for them at least - the rule of law and order simply didn't apply. They could, under the Munich - sorry, Belfast - Agreement, do pretty much as they pleased.

Which is what they've recently been doing in south Dublin. The Garda
operation against the Bray IRA gang also netted intelligence documents
naming drugs gangsters. These were not targets for IRA punishment squads; no, they were targets for extortion - which merely puts the IRA at the top of the drugs food-chain in the capital's working-class ghettoes.

QUOTE]
Link

What we need is a complete end to all paramilitary activity by those involved, and that includes all criminal activity. As a democrat - I believe this is non negottiable.

There will have to be an end to all paramilitary activity. If SF/IRA does not like this. They need to be excluded from the political process.

swiss

Nuttzz wrote:

http://www.portadownnews.com/

This needs to be repeated. It sums up my view perfectly.

AmenToThat

Cork wrote:

The Peace Process is in tatters thanks to an illegal grouping that should have been wound up years ago. Its weapons are being used as bargaining chips.

This is not acceptable.

If youll remember the few days after the robbery the PSNI/RUC conducted raids on addresses in west Belfast but gave the press prior warning so they could be in place to film them, this was done to show that the PSNI/RUC were making progress and werent completely incompetent.
Now Hugh Orde delivers a press conference without providing a single bit of credible intelligence...........if they have evidence they would have produced it to show that they are a competent force and are making progress in the case!

The peace process is in tatters because the PSNI/RUC at the request of thier masters the DUP, made claims without providing a shred of evidence.

As I said earlier I believe the provos probably did do it but do any of you seriously think Adams, McGuinness or any of the top brass sanctioned this at such a sensitive time?
If you do your living in dream land.

AmenToThat

Cork wrote:

But what Niall Binead was found guilty of last week was of a different order from all that has gone on before. He is a senior activist in the constituency organisation of the Sinn Féin TD Aengus Ó Snodaigh. He was arrested after gardaí investigated a van in Bray. The van had been lent to Sinn Féin - for "election purposes". Inside the van, gardaí found four men as well as a sledgehammer, a black balaclava, a pickaxe handle, radios, and a fluorescent jacket with the word "Garda" on it.

Some election.


For the entire Sinn Féin-IRA tribe has been given every reason to believe, almost time without number, that they are immune to the law. There was the Castlereagh break-in by the IRA, in which the IRA made off with the master-disk of British intelligence in the North, but there was no political price to be paid.

This was followed by the Stormont spying scandal, and instead of Sinn Féin being suspended from the Executive, the entire process was put into suspension. The unionists were thus punished equally with the culprits. Who then paid the electoral price for this? Why, poor dead David Trimble did, that's who, while Shinners dipped their digestives into their tea at Downing Street and nodded sympathetically while Tony Blair lamented about Gordon Brown.

Both of these were 'inside jobs' by elements of the security services and had nothing to do with the Republican movement.

So basically your whole argument revolves around the O Snodaigh accusations.

When you consider how many people on this island have involvement with Sinn Fein or the Provos I think it adds up to a very disciplined organization when compared to the Gardai for example who have been involved in far more scandals, incedents, whatever you want to call them in recent years

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

SF1

smiaras wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Yes so whats that to do with the robbery. And by the way i ware the t-shirts and support Sinn Féin.Does that make me an IRA member.

A Dub in Glasgo

eireman1916 wrote:

Yes so whats that to do with the robbery. And by the way i ware the t-shirts and support Sinn Féin.Does that make me an IRA member.

According to some of the 'democratic' folk here, your username is enough to convict of the most heinous crimes and spend the rest of your life in prison. Watch out

SF1

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

According to some of the 'democratic' folk here, your username is enough to convict of the most heinous crimes and spend the rest of your life in prison. Watch out

Excuse me.I have necer comited a crime in my live.My user name is only showing what i am
Eireman because im an Irish man
1916 its apart a my Irish history.

luckat

The peace process was already in tatters; many unionists simply don't want to share power, as far as I can see - they keep making more and more demands that weren't part of the original agreement.

And it seems to me that the British are busy little bees in "revealing" all kinds of IRA bad stuff (which often turns out not to have happened) just as the talks begin to grow fruitful.

I think the killing is going to start again if there isn't a Northern government within the year. In fact, if there isn't a government there before the marching season, I'd be pessimistic.

The only way that the North is going to be a working society is under a working Northern government, sharing power between all those who live there. If this can't happen by peaceful means, the forces within that divided society are going to start to tear it apart again.

Incidentally, let's try to be sparing in our use of contemptuous language. "Shinners", for instance, is a term that was first used by the Black-and-Tans to describe republicans; I personally find it pretty distasteful to hear it from an Irish person. And sneering nicknames for unionists are equally unhelpful to a sane discussion.

Cork

luckat wrote:

The only way that the North is going to be a working society is under a working Northern government, sharing power between all those who live there. If this can't happen by peaceful means, the forces within that divided society are going to start to tear it apart again.
.

The Good Friday Agreement is the only show in town. But SF needs to recognise that such criminality has to end.

No member of the IRA can be a criminal, Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams claimed today.

What planet is Adams living on?

There will have to be an end to all paramilitary activity. If this does not happen - then hard decisions will have to be made about SF and the IRA.

Sand

The only way that the North is going to be a working society is under a working Northern government, sharing power between all those who live there. If this can't happen by peaceful means, the forces within that divided society are going to start to tear it apart again.

No northern government will succeed without Unionist confidence. No unionist confidence will be forthcoming if their Minister for Education is also running terrorist and crinimal organisations - that's behaviour more fitting of some third world dictatorship than part of the United Kingdom. And it only reinforces negative imagery of nationalists and republicans as being unfit to govern.

For as long as SF/IRA operate under the illusion that they can participate in the democratic process, and yet not have to disband or at least suspend their terrorist wing's operations and criminality then there-will-be-no-peace.

jbkenn

The Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has said on Radio 1 news that he is satisfied that the robbery was carried out by the Provisional IRA, and, that the leadership of the PIRA, and Sinn Fein, were aware of the planning of the raid. He did not answer that specific members of the leadership were aware, but, that the leadership were aware.

jbkenn

Cork

jbkenn wrote:

The Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has said on Radio 1 news that he is satisfied that the robbery was carried out by the Provisional IRA, and, that the leadership of the PIRA, and Sinn Fein, were aware of the planning of the raid. He did not answer that specific members of the leadership were aware, but, that the leadership were aware.

jbkenn

I think that continued IRA criminality is a mockery to the Peace Process. The Good Fiday Agreement was endorsed by the Irish people. But we have a small illegal criminal group - the IRA holding up political progress.

No member of the IRA can be a criminal, Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams claimed today.

Does SF not consider cross border smugging, punishment or racketeering criminal?

Without the cesation of the criminal IRA criminality then involvement by SF in the Peace Process would be an insult to the Irish people.

Villain

Cork wrote:

I think that continued IRA criminality is a mockery to the Peace Process. The Good Fiday Agreement was endorsed by the Irish people. But we have a small illegal criminal group - the IRA holding up political progress.



Does SF not consider cross border smugging, punishment or racketeering criminal?

Without the cesation of the criminal IRA criminality then involvement by SF in the Peace Process would be an insult to the Irish people.

BLAH BLAH BLAH, FFS Cork would you ever get a new record.

A Dub in Glasgo

Its like Groundhog Day with Cork, the same line quoted every hour as if it will enhance his point :rolleyes:

Well I'm not Cork.
And I think when the Taoiseach of this country and most of the public representatives of this country believe that the IRA were planning this robbery while at the same time Sinn Féin were negotiating a final deal...
Then Sinn Féin have a problem a serious problem.

cdebru

if and it is a big if the IRA are responsible they deserve a kick in the bollox
however i would not take hugh ordes word for it
they have not even managed to find the van yet which must be embarrassing for orde blaming the RA takes the heat off the PSNI.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

BLAH BLAH BLAH, FFS Cork would you ever get a new record.

If an end was in sight to IRA criminality then political progress could be made, then political progress will be made on this island.

Without the cesation of the criminal IRA criminality then involvement by SF in the Peace Process should end.

As a democrat - I am not going to be intimidated by not criticising the criminal activities of the IRA, their punishment beatings, smuggling and rackets.

they have not even managed to find the van yet

Van or no van - criminality by the IRA has to end.

Its like Groundhog Day with Cork, the same line quoted every hour as if it will enhance his point

The line:

No member of the IRA can be a criminal, Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams claimed today.

It is not my line. It comes from Gerry Adams.

But forget about SF/IRA. The Peace Process is far more important. It needs to be put back on track. The Good Friday Agreement needs to be implemented. But IRA weapons need decommissioning and IRA criminality needs to stop.

A Dub in Glasgo

Cork wrote:

then they need to be excluded from democratic politics and section 31 should be re-introduced

---

As a democrat -

Democrat? You want to disenfranchise the people who vote SF and re-introduce censorship. Funny idea of democracy

The DUP are the the Democratic Unionist Party. Just because they call themselves Democrats does not mean they are!