Hand from fridays €50 tourney

mewso

O.k. this is how I went out on friday night.

Blinds at 400-800, about 24 approx. players left. I have a healthy enough stack of about 13,000 chips and I'm on SB. MP player raises it to 2400. I call the extra 2000 with Kc10c (mistake?). BB calls too.
Flop is Q high with 2 low clubs. I check, BB checks. MP bets 2400. I call (mistake?), BB raises it to 5000. MP calls, I call (at this point I consider myself well committed). Turn is a J (not a club) giving me a str8 and flush draw. I go all-in and get called by both players. River is a K (not a club). MP shows AQo, I have the kings and BB has pocket Aces. Time to get a taxi. So was this a series of errors on my part?

Lafortezza

Don't call MP raise with K10s. BB is unlikely to call, then your out of position with a hand that is dominated by AK, A10, and there's plenty of other MP raising hands that you're well behind. If Mp raised, then got 3 callers, *then* I'd probably call.
If the flop comes K 8 2 rainbow, you bet it and get raised all in, what do you do? Have to fold that K10 preflop imo.

On the flop and turn you might have been getting pot odds but I hate commiting the majority of my chip on a draw.

Who was the BB? Nicely played by him, if a little risky.

mewso

Yeah I agree in hindsight. The guy was familiar to me but I don't know him. Ironically I had done something similar with Aces earlier, flat calling a raise but I ended up heads up with the raiser who folded on the flop when I re-raised him.

Hectorjelly

Preflop its 1/5 of your stack, so its a pretty bad call. Your out of position, and your position is actually worse if the BB calls, (as you will act after the raiser but before him if its checked to pfr). Once you have gotten to the flop, with those stacks you have 2 choices, all in or fold. If you think your K outs are good or you have any chance of getting the preflop raiser to fold then I would say all in.

ionapaul

Musician, was I sitting beside you (to your right) for a while on table 3? I believe I was in seat 8 and you 9? I went out in 20th or 19th when someone saw my all-in and my JJ didn't hold up against their A10s. Anyone know who won in the end?

DeVore

Much as I love KTs I dont think I'd call pre flop with it in this case.

After that you are on the slippery path of getting pot odds (less and less applicable the closer your stack is getting to 0 imho) and eventually feeling committed to the pot.

At the 400 level and beyond, I tighten right up and get super aggressive unless I have a monster stack.

DeV.

Hectorjelly

DeVore wrote:

After that you are on the slippery path of getting pot odds (less and less applicable the closer your stack is getting to 0 imho) and eventually feeling committed to the pot.

Im pretty sure that not only is this wrong, but its the opposite of the truth, the larger your stack is the less applicable are pot odds. Anyone see why? I assume we are talking about situations in which your whole or a large portion of your stack is at threat.

mewso

I agree that ultimately the mistake was calling the pre-flop raise. Ionapaul not sure. I knocked out the guy on my right with trip Qs. There was some serious agro on our table early on. Ken Doherty was in and a friend of his was on our table. He had just bought in and called an all-in bet for all his chips with pocket 2s against pocket Ks. Needless to say he hit a 2 and somebody pointed out to him he had been lucky and was a bit mad to call the all-in. He He responded badly and a war of words was had which got a bit nasty.

Lafortezza

Who was involved? Pm me the gory details!

ionapaul

I saw Doherty leave very early while I was still on table 1 or table 6 downstairs (moved between the two for a while - sat at every table at some stage) - maybe his snooker skills don't transfer well to the poker rooms!
I have seen people post here about 'Hussein' before, some mad player. One of the players at table 1 while I was there was called Vincent and seemed a tab mad too - the same person or not?

DeVore

Hectorjelly wrote:

Im pretty sure that not only is this wrong, but its the opposite of the truth, the larger your stack is the less applicable are pot odds. Anyone see why? I assume we are talking about situations in which your whole or a large portion of your stack is at threat.

Please sir, please sir!! *waves hand in air*...


Actually I was talking about the same sized call at various stack sizes, I should have been clearer.
What I mean is that if a call will put you out of the tournie or significantly bite into your stack, I would take into account my position in the tournie and my likely future odds. Alternatively if I have a huge stack and the call makes little impact then I'll look solely at the hand odds, possibly even making a call which is slightly wrong odds wise if it knocks a player out.

DeV.

careca

ionapaul wrote:

I saw Doherty leave very early while I was still on table 1 or table 6 downstairs (moved between the two for a while - sat at every table at some stage) - maybe his snooker skills don't transfer well to the poker rooms!
I have seen people post here about 'Hussein' before, some mad player. One of the players at table 1 while I was there was called Vincent and seemed a tab mad too - the same person or not?

No, different people. Vincent is actually not that mad. He will quite often call with 'dodgy' cards but only when he has a big stack and he can knock someone out.

DeVore

ionapaul wrote:

I saw Doherty leave very early while I was still on table 1 or table 6 downstairs (moved between the two for a while - sat at every table at some stage) - maybe his snooker skills don't transfer well to the poker rooms!
I have seen people post here about 'Hussein' before, some mad player. One of the players at table 1 while I was there was called Vincent and seemed a tab mad too - the same person or not?

Nah, thats Vincenzo. Nice guy, bonkers player! He was on my table last night and paid me off when all I had was AT high I knew he was no better then I and hadnt hit. He didnt call my milking bet on the river and showed A6 so I showed him AT not as a "fook you" move but to show I had him beat! I'd never do that with someone else so maybe his tactic has worked on me!

DeV.

Hectorjelly

DeVore wrote:

Please sir, please sir!! *waves hand in air*...


Actually I was talking about the same sized call at various stack sizes, I should have been clearer.
What I mean is that if a call will put you out of the tournie or significantly bite into your stack, I would take into account my position in the tournie and my likely future odds. Alternatively if I have a huge stack and the call makes little impact then I'll look solely at the hand odds, possibly even making a call which is slightly wrong odds wise if it knocks a player out.

DeV.

No arguments with that, my point was that the smaller your stack, the less chance you have of finding a better spot to put your chips in at a later stage.

DeVore

True, true but I just realised why I might back off... the question implies that I'm *calling* a bet and with all of my chips, I generally prefer to be the one making the move... I think I subconsciously factored that in!

DeV.