A hand from last night.

henbane

DeVore wrote:

Now I know that if I hit I'm going to get the rest of his money and if I dont (or have a spade draw) I walk away

I don't understand this. If you're going in on sooted cards you have to call the rest with a four flush.

If you ignore the suited possibilities you're losing equity

       	  equity (%)      win (%) / tie (%) 

Hand  1:	  29.5907 %   [  00.29   00.00  ]    { Q3o }
Hand  2:	  70.4093 %   [  00.70   00.00  ]    { 77 }

Hectorjelly

The overlay turns a terrible call into a bad one, you dont quite have the odds, but the fact that you might fold on the flop having no idea what he has makes it even worse. If you want to gamble just put it all in preflop.

If you had of posted: it was during the rebuy period and I decided to gamble with what I know was -EV plays in order to build a biger stack, then we wouldnt be having this argument.

DeVore

Sorry Henbane, me fail english? Thats unpossible.
Reconstruct that sentence into sense and there you go. While you are at it, add in something that makes me look suave and debonair!

DeV.

dirkey_wynne

DeVore wrote:

...I wasnt kidding, I honestly havent made up my mind. I'd fold 99 in this position because I dont like 50/50's but I'm ahead

DeV, is it mainly as this is a rebuy that you make the call? I've taken this from a previous thread. You say you don't like 50/50's, but you're justifying a 70/30 (rough) call here. I'm not critisising in any way (I don't usually get involved in these hand discussions, as God knows I make awful mistakes) but just wondering. I don't see how you'd pass up a 50/50 in another tournie to a raise, but take a 70/30 here, unless your main justification is that it's a rebuy. Personally I wouldn't call Q3 even to a big blind, but that's just me. I think it's a filthy hand.

Hectorjelly

DeVore wrote:

Sorry Henbane, me fail english? Thats unpossible.
Reconstruct that sentence into sense and there you go. While you are at it, add in something that makes me look suave and debonair!

DeV.

He means he would of called with a four flush!

DeVore

Hectorjelly wrote:

The overlay turns a terrible call into a bad one, you dont quite have the odds, but the fact that you might fold on the flop having no idea what he has makes it even worse. If you want to gamble just put it all in preflop.

If you had of posted: it was during the rebuy period and I decided to gamble with what I know was -EV plays in order to build a biger stack, then we wouldnt be having this argument.

I have just reread my original post and I didnt make out that it was a great play or even a +EV play, I was trying to crystalise a point about unreasonable reaction to comments on the table (a point, which has now disappeared into a maths argument).

If others want to attribute greatness to me, well who am I to stop them ... *flicks hair*.

The original post uses phrases like "practically priced in" and "take a shot". I was trying to get to the point that the reaction from the table was the same as yours "OMG what an uber fish, how could you possibly call".... Now that I've explained it you see where I was coming from and its just a bit of a dodgy gamble but it could work out nicely....

My whole point such as it existed at all was that I COULD NOT GET THAT THROUGH TO THEM and eventually just told them all to f-off essentially and then folded my arms in a huff muttering darkly to myself about how some people need to go back to the JC probability books.

DeV.

dirkey_wynne

DeVore wrote:

I have just reread my original post and I didnt make out that it was a great play or even a +EV play, I was trying to crystalise a point about unreasonable reaction to comments on the table (a point, which has now disappeared into a maths argument).

If others want to attribute greatness to me, well who am I to stop them ... *flicks hair*.

The original post uses phrases like "practically priced in" and "take a shot". I was trying to get to the point that the reaction from the table was the same as yours "OMG what an uber fish, how could you possibly call".... Now that I've explained it you see where I was coming from and its just a bit of a dodgy gamble but it could work out nicely....

My whole point such as it existed at all was that I COULD NOT GET THAT THROUGH TO THEM and eventually just told them all to f-off essentially and then folded my arms in a huff muttering darkly to myself about how some people need to go back to the JC probability books.

DeV.

That's fair enough - people critisising at the table bugs me alright. Fair enough when off the table and talking to ppl, we all give out then, but at the table it's annoying. The one thing about poker is you can play it any way you want to. When people say stuff such as "you're an idiot to play with that" etc, then you should laugh and say "who has the money" then they'll be the ones on tilt. One other question though. It's the business league again, you go all in with 77. You are called by Q3 suited. You get busted out. I think we'd see a certain DeV stomping around the Fitz shaking his head about the bad beat!

DeVore

dirkey_wynne wrote:

DeV, is it mainly as this is a rebuy that you make the call? I've taken this from a previous thread. You say you don't like 50/50's, but you're justifying a 70/30 (rough) call here. I'm not critisising in any way (I don't usually get involved in these hand discussions, as God knows I make awful mistakes) but just wondering. I don't see how you'd pass up a 50/50 in another tournie to a raise, but take a 70/30 here, unless your main justification is that it's a rebuy. Personally I wouldn't call Q3 even to a big blind, but that's just me. I think it's a filthy hand.

Oh jesus now people think I call with Q3s all the time.... actually... *muse*... thats not such a bad thing.

*ahem*...Why yes good sir, I call in the FO with Q3 for half my stack regularly!


Dirkey are you um, like, high?!
Yeah I had a load of credit, the last three for rebuys was coming up and I hadnt really made any moves all night.

I dont like doing my stack a lot of damage calling what is obviously a 50/50 (say, an all in from UTG while I'm holding AK for 3/4 of a decent stack early in the competition). Thats not to say I wouldnt do it, it depends on a lot of things but with something like TT I'll often drop it to a big raise on a table I feel comfortable on. Theres little you can hope he turns over that you are going to be punching the air on unless its a poor player.

While I'm pretty sure I'm 70:30ish I'm also getting 30:70 from the pot so its similar to a 50-50 for even money back from the pot. If I'm in a gamble mood I'll take that.

DeV.

DeVore

dirkey_wynne wrote:

That's fair enough - people critisising at the table bugs me alright. Fair enough when off the table and talking to ppl, we all give out then, but at the table it's annoying. The one thing about poker is you can play it any way you want to. When people say stuff such as "you're an idiot to play with that" etc, then you should laugh and say "who has the money" then they'll be the ones on tilt. One other question though. It's the business league again, you go all in with 77. You are called by Q3 suited. You get busted out. I think we'd see a certain DeV stomping around the Fitz shaking his head about the bad beat!

No fair! You arent giving the details and its the overlay, the rebuys (BL is a freeze out remember) , the stacks and the read that make me do it.

Here's another way I play Q3... it goes like this:
SB: 50
BB: 100
UTG: 600
Me: *looking for waitress*
Dealer: Its your turn Tom.
Me: What? Oh ****, man I folded those in my head like, half an hour ago. Yeah, strong tea and two darlin'...

There is a world of a difference. Besides all in on 77 in a freeze out is not my style unless I have some reason to do it (like short stackedness).

DeV.

dirkey_wynne

DeVore wrote:

Oh jesus now people think I call with Q3s all the time.... actually... *muse*... thats not such a bad thing.

*ahem*...Why yes good sir, I call in the FO with Q3 for half my stack regularly!


Dirkey are you um, like, high?!
Yeah I had a load of credit, the last three for rebuys was coming up and I hadnt really made any moves all night.

I dont like doing my stack a lot of damage calling what is obviously a 50/50 (say, an all in from UTG while I'm holding AK for 3/4 of a decent stack early in the competition). Thats not to say I wouldnt do it, it depends on a lot of things but with something like TT I'll often drop it to a big raise on a table I feel comfortable on. Theres little you can hope he turns over that you are going to be punching the air on unless its a poor player.

While I'm pretty sure I'm 70:30ish I'm also getting 30:70 from the pot so its similar to a 50-50 for even money back from the pot. If I'm in a gamble mood I'll take that.

DeV.

Fair enough. Answers my question. Personally, I wouldn't do it, but I understand your reasoning for doing so. And that was my main thing - wondering about the fact it was rebuy period etc. Whatever your reasoning ya made a call yourself and I hate when people go on and moan.

DeVore

Its funny, if I know someone is trying to get inside my head, it has no effect on me. I can be very strong mentally in that regard, but when it was genuine but imho misguided criticism and then a completely unreasonable inability to even understand or attempt to comprehend that there may have been method to my madness that just p|ssed me right off! Funny how something small like that can trigger a full blown tilt attack!

DeV.

Hyzepher

Now that we know - expect more of it -

Hyzepher

DeVore

Thats already been commented on but now that I have put it in my "trying to get into my head" file, I wont be taking it to heart... (I'd hardly post it here if I felt I'd go on tilt from it again now would I!).

Anyone else ever noticed something small or stupid getting them unreasonably riled up?

DeV.

Lafortezza

DeVore wrote:

Anyone else ever noticed something small or stupid getting them unreasonably riled up?
DeV.

A certain little lego pig, that calls with any two frickin suited cards.

mewso

DeVore wrote:

Thats already been commented on but now that I have put it in my "trying to get into my head" file, I wont be taking it to heart... (I'd hardly post it here if I felt I'd go on tilt from it again now would I!).

Anyone else ever noticed something small or stupid getting them unreasonably riled up?

DeV.

Poker

Hectorjelly

DeVore wrote:

I have just reread my original post and I didnt make out that it was a great play or even a +EV play, I was trying to crystalise a point about unreasonable reaction to comments on the table (a point, which has now disappeared into a maths argument).

The original post uses phrases like "practically priced in" and "take a shot". I was trying to get to the point that the reaction from the table was the same as yours "OMG what an uber fish, how could you possibly call".... Now that I've explained it you see where I was coming from and its just a bit of a dodgy gamble but it could work out nicely....

My whole point such as it existed at all was that I COULD NOT GET THAT THROUGH TO THEM and eventually just told them all to f-off essentially and then folded my arms in a huff muttering darkly to myself about how some people need to go back to the JC probability books.

DeV.

My comments were more directed at the comments to your post, which were completely crazy, rather than your original post. My reaction wasnt "OMG what an uberfish..." (allthough it was similar) it was just that it was a bad call, and you know that.

Edit: maybe replace bad with badish

DeVore

lafortezza wrote:

A certain little lego pig, that calls with any two frickin suited cards.

I love that lego pig... he's a cracker of a poker player sometimes hahah... and he gets people so far on tilt that Player X could take notes!

I've seen him play nuts in the FR's but he's also a decent player and plays well in the 100 and 270 games. I agree though, its sooooo annoying to see him call an all in re-raise with 3,5 simply because he didnt like the way his opponent did it! Inevitably he hits a straight on the flop!

I dont believe in luck but if I did I'd say he was jammiest player I'd ever seen!

DeV.

Hitman Actual

DeVore wrote:

Aye, I was just making the point that its not that far behind, certainly not the hanging offence HJ seems to think it is.

This post wasnt really about the hand in question, I shouldnt have been there in the first place and from there it was loose play, though I needed to gamble to try and buy a stack at that time I felt.

My point such as it was, was more about unreasonably getting tilty and what triggers it.
DeV.

Sorry, didn't get my point across correctly... as far as I'm concerned, the SB fcnks up his hand with the crappy pre-flop raise, so he has some cheek to be whinging about your call!

DeVore

lenny_leonard wrote:

Sorry, didn't get my point across correctly... as far as I'm concerned, the SB fcnks up his hand with the crappy pre-flop raise, so he has some cheek to be whinging about your call!

Yeah, I suppose thats another way to look at it. If he had shoved all in I'd have dropped it in an instant. If he bet 500 even I would have been on the right side of the odds to call and his weak tentative raise said to me that he had a hand but not one he was wild about it and since mostly I was worried about a big pair (which would have been a good hand to put a 600 raise in on) I figured he didnt have it and my Q was a clean out. with that raise, someone is going to take a flyer in the pre-FO period of the tournie, particularly the people in late position (especially since he's first to act!)

DeV.

Lafortezza

DeVore wrote:

I've seen him play nuts in the FR's but he's also a decent player and plays well in the 100 and 270 games.

I've never seen him make a decent play...ever. Not once.
I've seen him reraise with K10o when UTG min-raised at a final table of a 20-game. UTG had bullets. Flop K-10-4.

I limped on the button with K9s, flop comes with 2 Kings, I check, then bet the turn, he reraises all in with a 4-flush and one card to come. My turn bet wasn't even that big. Flush on the river.

In the 270 game I get moved to his table. I've a decent stack after winning a big multiway pot with Aces. I don't play a single hand not even out of my BB for half an hour. He's raising with QJs and calling preflop with muck all over the place, any position, and player.
Then he raises from MP, I go all-in with AK spades. Everyone folds to him and he instantly calls, no hesitation whatsoever. He has KQ hearts. Turns a flush.

He's the one person who automatically puts me on tilt when I'm at his table.