Think I've been stung by a cowboy on Ebay....

Selik

Bought a phone there for €300 a couple of weeks back and I still haven't got it. Emailed the seller this evening and got an email back saying that he has changed emails but that I would get a reply within. A bit suspicious I thought so I check the guys feedback and shortly after I paid for the phone it's been shocking (to my horror). Looked in more detail at the good feedback previously and all the guy ever seems to have sold is phone facias for £0.99. I think I've been done along with a few other very angry people. I'll be amazed if my phone arrives now! Here's a link to the sellers feedback forum - note they have re-registered from Ebay and no doubt done a runner too...

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=mynewfacia&item=6354423878&iid=6354423878&frm=1883&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:SFS

Had anyone any experience of this before and if so what should I do next? How and I covered in terms of Ebay & Paypal and also my credit card (Visa BOI).

StRiKeR

call your card center and tell them what happened and see if they can do anything for you! BOI normally very good!

Selik

Yeah thanks called them already they've advised me to call back tomorrow morning and speak with their transaction dispute department which I will most certainly do! I'm just reading Paypals' Buyer Protection Policy and it sucks if the bit about having to have at least 50 feedback comments holds out. Not faid at all imo I have 17 comments and 100% positive feedback. Here it is anyway:

PayPal Buyer Protection Eligibility
Your eBay feedback score is at least 50
Your eBay positive feedback percentage is at least 98%
How is this percentage calculated?
You are a Verified member of PayPal
You use a Premier or Business PayPal account to accept payments
You have a U.S., U.K., German, or Canadian PayPal account in good standing

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

FX Meister

Definetely stung on that one. The guy has only been a member since Nov anyway. As was said, try you CC company and file a fraud report with ebay and paypal. But ebay/paypal do the bare minimum to help you in these matters, they have made their money and don't really give a toss about you.

Selik

Solitaryman666 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Yeah that's why I suspect this guy's a complete chancer - only started selling phones recently as well, except it seems nobody ever received theirs! Think I'll have to go through BOI to get my refund what a load of crap this is...

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

shoegirl

Giles wrote:

Yeah thanks called them already they've advised me to call back tomorrow morning and speak with their transaction dispute department which I will most certainly do! I'm just reading Paypals' Buyer Protection Policy and it sucks if the bit about having to have at least 50 feedback comments holds out.

I'd still let paypal know about the transaction, as clearly there is a problem with it. As far as I know the fraud dept is based in Ireland, you at least might a local contact number that won't cost as much to telephone.

By the way the rating requirement is for Sellers, not buyers:

For a buyer here are the requirements:

"Transactions Covered by PayPal Buyer Protection

If you paid for an item and never received it or received an item that was significantly not as described, your transaction must meet each of the following requirements to be eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection:
The PayPal Buyer Protection icon must be displayed in the Seller Information box on eBay
Your purchase must be a physical item -- services and intangible items are not covered
You must use PayPal to pay for the item and must use the seller's email address associated with the listing. To make sure of this, use the grey Pay Now button you'll see when the listing closes on eBay.
PayPal Buyer Protection Rules
You may only file one claim per PayPal payment
Claims must be filed within 30 days of the PayPal payment
You may not file a claim if you are simply disappointed with the item you have received. Items must be significantly not as described or never received
You are limited to two PayPal Buyer Protection refunds per calendar year. Beyond that, we are unable to guarantee full recovery of funds
You must be willing to provide information during the investigation process. If we are unable to obtain the necessary information, your case may be cancelled without a refund"

Also there is a buyer complaint process:

"We encourage buyers to initiate communication with sellers if they have a problem with a transaction. Through open communication, many disputes can be resolved amicably. In cases where communication does not resolve a problem, you may file a claim through the Buyer Complaint Process.

Once you file a claim, PayPal will investigate the case and attempt to come to a fair resolution. If our investigation determines that you are owed money by the seller, we will make every effort to recover funds for you. We will try to complete our investigation and provide any reimbursement within 30 days from the date the Buyer Complaint Form is filed.

For further information on increasing the safety of your transactions, please review Fraud Prevention Tips for Buyers.

Buyer Complaint Process Requirements

In order for a transaction to be eligible for Buyer Complaint Process review:
You must have used PayPal to pay for your purchase.
You must not have received the item that you purchased.
You must file a claim within 30 days of payment.
Your purchase must be a tangible item. Services and intangible items, such as emailed recipes and e-books, are not covered."

mycroft

Look I hate to say it but it was 300 squid, before spending close to 550 euro i'd have extensively check the sellers rep what they were for and why they were given, the most i've spent on e-bay is 120 sterling and before doing so i checked the senders rep the amount previous transactions on this account were for and were the for a similar item.

okidoki987

Have to agree about E bay and the problems. Too many gangsters around that would use the Internet to con people.
At least you paid by Credit Card (which is the way you should always pay if you can!). You will get a FULL refund from the Credit card company once you advise them (quicker the better) by phone and then by e-mail or post that you have not got your goods.
They are jointly liable if you do not receive the goods and they have to chase the seller for their payment.
So you will get your refund from the Credit Card company but you will have to wait at least 3 months.

BolBill

Wouldn't touch Paypal mate.

D!ve^Bomb!

Giles wrote:

Bought a phone there for €300 a couple of weeks back and I still haven't got it. Emailed the seller this evening and got an email back saying that he has changed emails but that I would get a reply within. A bit suspicious I thought so I check the guys feedback and shortly after I paid for the phone it's been shocking (to my horror). Looked in more detail at the good feedback previously and all the guy ever seems to have sold is phone facias for £0.99. I think I've been done along with a few other very angry people. I'll be amazed if my phone arrives now! Here's a link to the sellers feedback forum - note they have re-registered from Ebay and no doubt done a runner too...

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=mynewfacia&item=6354423878&iid=6354423878&frm=1883&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:SFS

Had anyone any experience of this before and if so what should I do next? How and I covered in terms of Ebay & Paypal and also my credit card (Visa BOI).

I work in fraud in eBay, you should leave it till tomorrow, eBay have a new Item Not received Process starting tomorrow evening or Fri..

But if you used CC then you won't be able to claim from eBay unless you get a letter from CC company as proof of reimbursement... but in 99% of cases the CC company will sort you out.. and even if you did claim from eBay the most you'll get is 105 sterling..

in future ALWAYS check feedback and tbh i'd be wary of seller with generic pics on their listings.. and i personally wouldn't buy from anyone with less than 99% + feedback

bacon?

sorry to hear that mate.

koneko

Always ALWAYS do your research when you're spending that much on Ebay. Only looking at how much feedback they have isn't enough. Look at the auctions that are still linked, do your homework. I don't spend 300 euro with someone that doesn't have a couple hundred auctions under their belt.

Good news is you can probably get your money back from your CC company. Give them a call and at least log it with them.

okidoki987

Ebay are a disgrace!
The amount of fraud being committed on the site is outrageous.
They don't care so long as they are making their money.
If they did care, they would refund 100% of the money swindled and chase the ****ers themselves.
Don't bother coming back with "we can't check everybody blah, blah ,blah".
If you can't control the people or the number of people using your site, then stop it.
You will probably also say "it's only 0.001% of our customers" but if you DON'T help ALL the people caught, then it's 0.001% too many.

But if you used CC then you won't be able to claim from eBay unless you get a letter from CC company as proof of reimbursement... but in 99% of cases the CC company will sort you out.. and even if you did claim from eBay the most you'll get is 105 sterling..

If you get reimbursed from your CC, you wouldn't be bothered going back to Ebay would you?
"The most you'll get is 105 sterling"
SAYS IT ALL.

garthv

www.paypalsucks.com

D!ve^Bomb!

okidoki987 wrote:

Ebay are a disgrace!
The amount of fraud being committed on the site is outrageous.
They don't care so long as they are making their money.
If they did care, they would refund 100% of the money swindled and chase the ****ers themselves.
Don't bother coming back with "we can't check everybody blah, blah ,blah".
If you can't control the people or the number of people using your site, then stop it.
You will probably also say "it's only 0.001% of our customers" but if you DON'T help ALL the people caught, then it's 0.001% too many.

But if you used CC then you won't be able to claim from eBay unless you get a letter from CC company as proof of reimbursement... but in 99% of cases the CC company will sort you out.. and even if you did claim from eBay the most you'll get is 105 sterling..

If you get reimbursed from your CC, you wouldn't be bothered going back to Ebay would you?
"The most you'll get is 105 sterling"
SAYS IT ALL.

What do you think the feedback system is for? :rolleyes:

I work in fraud and the amount of lovely lovely people that write in.. all you need is a bit of common sense

There are currently around about 120,000,000 eBay users at the moment, and i answer mails from all over the world, do you know how many emails are in the fraud queue at the moment?

400..

So what i'm trying to say is.... **** off:D

John R

The problem with ebay is that so many people think of it as a store.
I have lost count of the posts on boards where people have reccommended that "ebay have xyz cheap.
ebay don't sell anything they are just an auction site, if you use it carefully it is a good resource but if you are incapable of backing away from the good but potentially dodgy deal then you should just steer clear.
Stuff from longtime members with excellent rep cost more and for a good reason.

The conmen don't all just show up with no rep and try to make a fast €, they will try to build up some good rep over a short period of time with small sales/purchases and then do a blitz of phoney sales to get in as much as they can before the neg rep starts rolling in.
Five minutes going through rep will always be worth it. Look for length of membership, lots of sales of similar types/priced items.

Carpenter

D!ve^Bomb! wrote:

What do you think the feedback system is for? :rolleyes:

I work in fraud and the amount of gob****es that write in.. do you know what they all lack?.... common sense..

There are currently around about 120,000,000 eBay users at the moment, and i answer mails from all over the world, do you know how many emails are in the fraud queue at the moment?

400..

So what i'm trying to say is.... **** off:D

Hi
I sent a e-mail to them 12 months ago over a watch i did not get and guess what ? I got no reply ( could i be 1 off the 400) i know it is your job but they are crap

monkeyfudge

I got a watch off eBay once. And it actually operated in a COUNTER-clockwise direction.

I just couldn't bring my self to kick up a stink about it as it just cracks me up laughing everytime I look at it.... haha....

D!ve^Bomb!

Carpenter wrote:

Hi
I sent a e-mail to them 12 months ago over a watch i did not get and guess what ? I got no reply ( could i be 1 off the 400) i know it is your job but they are crap

no offence but i read that **** everyday, and when we check... NOTHING.. emails don't always get delivered ya know

what's your email address and i'll reply right now for you.. and just so you know, i'm not even sure where it would have went cos eBay wasn't here then

crazy angel

ha counter clockwise, lol lol lol lol lol !!!!!!!

Von Manstein

Hard luck there Giles... Well Paypal and Googles (ebay too afaik) european headquaters are located in Blanchardstown beside myself. Try paying them a vist. Where not u the one with the problem last week with the digital camera and customs?

Well i had a strange deal on Ebay myself before. I had just bought a PFC blowback Mp40 from a guy in Hong Kong (good feeback, had sold them beore). The bad thing was the package was supposed to arrive in 3 to 4 days - it took 3 and a half weeks as far as I remember!! It turns out it wasnt the sellers fault but I got very worried for a while there when he started appearing as "a no longer registered user" on Ebay. It cost me over 250 euro.

Anyway it all worked out and got my beloved mp40 (and I got it through customs without paying any extra taxes or duties )

At the moment I'm getting a Marushin "super Heavyweight" German Walther P.38 from the UK shipped over. Perfectly legal over here. It's only a blank firing replica ( an expensive one at 300 euro though :P )


Anyway it has just arrived off the plane so hopefully customs won't go crazy when they see a strange looking gun shape in the x ray machine. :rolleyes:

crazy angel

wooohooo i got my 2nd star!

D!ve^Bomb!

Von Manstein wrote:

Hard luck there Giles... Well Paypal and Googles (ebay too afaik) european headquaters are located in Blanchardstown beside myself. Try paying them a vist

no don't do that cos that'll be pointless.. one time a guy came over here looking to sell a guitar :rolleyes:... moron

Von Manstein

D!ve^Bomb! wrote:

no don't do that cos that'll be pointless.. one time a guy came over hear looking to sell a guitar :rolleyes:... moron

Lmao

elexes

a few ppl i know have had probloms like this . basicly the way they got it solved was

report it to ebay
report it to pay pal and bitch bitch bitch !!

the transaction you made from your creditcard company was with pay pal . the trastaction you wanted was paypal to send money to a person for you . they done that . i dont see how the credit card company could tell you sure the problom was with pay pal not with the person you sent the cash to .

keep a look out on ebay for another person like this . the guy will probably come back .

Carpenter

D!ve^Bomb! wrote:

no offence but i read that **** everyday, and when we check... NOTHING.. emails don't always get delivered ya know

what's your email address and i'll reply right now for you.. and just so you know, i'm not even sure where it would have went cos eBay wasn't here then

Hi again
Ta for the offer but it dont matter now it was not a lot off money and i know e-bay was not there then because i helped fit the place out last year in blanch but nice off you 2 offer bud

D!ve^Bomb!

Carpenter

crazy angel wrote:

wooohooo i got my 2nd star!

how does that star thing work

garthv

Carpenter wrote:

how does that star thing work

everytime you get down on your knees for me,ill give you a star

A Dub in Glasgo

D!ve^Bomb! wrote:

I work in fraud in eBay

That is interesting.

Are ebay aware that the best way to minimise fraud is to get sellers to prove who they are eg a utility bill? Ebay have been dragging their heels on the fraud aspect of their site for years now.

Stephen

I had a guy who was messing me about on ebay a couple of months ago when I won an auction for a mobile phone. Three weeks had passed and he was insisting that he had posted the phone. I made a complaint to paypal and a few days later the package arrives - postmarked 2 days after I lodged the complaint

A Dub in Glasgo

John R wrote:

The problem with ebay is that so many people think of it as a store.
I have lost count of the posts on boards where people have reccommended that "ebay have xyz cheap.
ebay don't sell anything they are just an auction site, if you use it carefully it is a good resource but if you are incapable of backing away from the good but potentially dodgy deal then you should just steer clear.
Stuff from longtime members with excellent rep cost more and for a good reason.

The conmen don't all just show up with no rep and try to make a fast €, they will try to build up some good rep over a short period of time with small sales/purchases and then do a blitz of phoney sales to get in as much as they can before the neg rep starts rolling in.
Five minutes going through rep will always be worth it. Look for length of membership, lots of sales of similar types/priced items.

ebay are marketing themselves as a storefront

ebay do not put a value of the transaction beside the feedback comment. After 3 months, the details are deleted and all people are left with is some +ive feedback. They will have no idea if the guy sold 3,000 ebooks at 1p to build a feedback history.

ebay do not make it easy to view a users negative/neutral feedback. I use the following which filters out the feedback

http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs

ebay make it very difficult for users to report listings

ebay do not prove the sellers are who they say they are and they do not prove the address the seller is registered at

Selik

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

That is interesting.

Are ebay aware that the best way to minimise fraud is to get sellers to prove who they are eg a utility bill? Ebay have been dragging their heels on the fraud aspect of their site for years now.

Think you're hitting the nail on the head their dude.... They're not a Financial Services company though which is why they don't have to be so vigilant. Also I'm not aware of any regulating bodyu that has power over them so I guess these things will only happen (and they bloody well should) when they are forced....

I called BOI today and they can't do anything until Jan 29th after which they said I can submit a claim to them. I'll have to print of all emails and correspondance and send it to them but they basically said that I will almost certainly get my money back. Hopefully Paypal will get it for me in the meantime but I wouldn't count on it based on some of the stories that I've heard about them!

I've certainly learned a lesson from this and I will be absolutley meticulous in my research on sellers before I buy anything valuable on Ebay again. Having said that I've got loads of stuff off sellers on Ebay before so I'm not going to diss them outright.

I also lodged a complaint with Paypal lastnite, here's the transcipt of the the mail:

The phone has not arrived after 2 weeks which I thought was very unusual so I decided to email the seller this evening(to mynewfacia@ntlworld.com)only to get an auto response stating the following exactly:

Please note, we have changed email - as a result emails sent within the past week or so will not have been recieved (Sent from 19th Dec). Sorry for any hassle this has caused. your email will be responded to in the next 24 hours

Again I thought this was a little strange so I check the feedback on Ebay again and it's been absolutely shocking since the New Year. Added to the fact that the seller has only been on Ebay since November and has now de-registered it seems highly likely that this guy is a fraudulent seller and I have been cheated. I hope I am covered for this in some way as my Ebay(feedback 17, 100%)and Paypal history is excellent.

Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you about this matter in due course. Please note that if you wish to commmunicate in real time with me via email during business hours (weekedays) I can be emailed at //////////////. The reason for this is that I don't have internet access at work.

My Regards,

Giles Kenny

D!ve^Bomb!

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

That is interesting.

Are ebay aware that the best way to minimise fraud is to get sellers to prove who they are eg a utility bill? Ebay have been dragging their heels on the fraud aspect of their site for years now.

oh yes but of course, we'll get 120,000,000 to fax in a copy of their ESB bills shall we:rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

D!ve^Bomb! wrote:

oh yes but of course, we'll get 120,000,000 to fax in a copy of their ESB bills shall we:rolleyes:

If ebay were serious about cutting fraud on their site, they would introduce this requirement for new members. I would like to see them do it for the .co.uk (the one I use). Your rolleyes smilie tells me alot about how serious ebay view the ease a person can set up an account and commit fraud.

What about the transactions value on the feedback, there are 1,000s of listings on ebay that are purely for feedback solicitation.

Give me a couple of examples to show ebay is serious about fraud on their site

D!ve^Bomb!

They are serious, they have a fraud department dont they, eBay are not obliged to reimburse people who get ripped off you know..

and as i said, fraud accounts for less than 1% of eBay transactions..

don't be soo bitter

i'm off home

A Dub in Glasgo

They have a fraud dept? I assume that dept is a reactive one where they investigate complaints. Do you look for fraudulent listings? Are ebay still relying on the 'community' to do that for them? Ever hear the phrase 'preventing fraud'? I have listed a few simple procedures that ebay could adopt to show they are serious about preventing fraud. They do not want to do it because it will eat into their huge profits and the hassle factor in proving registrations might deter some new sellers (= less £$ for ebay). ebay make money out of the fraudulent listings you see.

D!ve^Bomb!

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

They have a fraud dept? I assume that dept is a reactive one where they investigate complaints. Do you look for fraudulent listings? .

yes we do actually, it's called proactive fraud, we have people do this everyday.. we look for fraudulent sellers as well as non paying bidders

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Are ebay still relying on the 'community' to do that for them? Ever hear the phrase 'preventing fraud'? I have listed a few simple procedures that ebay could adopt to show they are serious about preventing fraud..

Yes the community are very good at this, and we prevent fraud on a daily basis through PROACTIVE fraud, we prevent the loss of THOUSANDS believe it or not.. go figure

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

They do not want to do it because it will eat into their huge profits and the hassle factor in proving registrations might deter some new sellers (= less £$ for ebay). ebay make money out of the fraudulent listings you see.

Why would eBay do such a thing? what would a utility bill prove? It proves an address, but of who? it's not exactly a full proof plan you there is it

How does eBay make money out of fraudulent listings exactly?

A Dub in Glasgo

D!ve^Bomb! wrote:

yes we do actually, it's called proactive fraud, we have people do this everyday.. we look for fraudulent sellers as well as non paying bidders

What things are looked at? Are there any bots searching listings to check odd behaviour? eg someone with a past history in low value trading suddenly listing high value items? What about feedback solicitation?

Yes the community are very good at this, and we prevent fraud on a daily basis through PROACTIVE fraud, we prevent the loss of THOUSANDS believe it or not.. go figure

Yes, I know the 'community' are very good at proactive fraud identification. I went through a phase of reporting suspicious listings by the bucket load a few years ago and discussing these with other ebay members on the discussion boards. What dis-illisioned me was the fact that ebay done nothing and the buyers would eventually end up on the discussion boards seeking advice. Eventually ebay put a stop on discussing suspicious listings on their groups as there was a new thread every couple of hours and ebay wanted to suppress the airing of the fraudulent listings.

Why would eBay do such a thing? what would a utility bill prove? It proves an address, but of who? it's not exactly a full proof plan you there is it

A utility bill (or other comparable ID) would correlate the ID of the person with the credit card that is required when registering and the address. It would not stop the serious scammers and fraudsters but it would stop the majority of fraud - the opportunist.

How does eBay make money out of fraudulent listings exactly?

Fraud is not just keeping money and not sending the goods

There are listings which are totally designed to lure people into thinking they will get a certain item. ebay claim they cannot do anything as the seller has not broken his word and the buyer should have read the listing properly. The classic 'Playstation 2 Games System Box' type listing. The seller will have a picture of a playstation console with controllers and have a full technical description of the system. He is trying to make his ad look like he is selling the console when in fact, he is selling an empty box of a playstaion 2 system. This is scamming and ebay will not side with the buyer

The one area that is absolutely rife on ebay is selling fake goods as legitimate. For example, there are hundreds if not thousands of listings on ebay UK for DVDs which are fake (good quality fakes) but they are passed off as the real thing. I have reported plenty of these listings to know that ebay will not pull them or suspend the seller. They make money from the listing, they make money from the Final Value, they make money from the payment (if they go through ebay for payments). ebay make money all along the chain and are quite happy for sellers to sell fake goods as long as the seller does not say fake in the listing.

In actual numbers, what is your 1% fraud figure you quoted? 10,000? 100,000, 1m? 10m? fraudulent listings per year?

With the case in this thread, any potential bidder should be able to see straight away the % of the feedbacks received by value ranges eg very small value, small value, medium value, large value, very large value. A seller with 95% trading in the first range but now selling in the 5th range should raise alarm bells. At the moment, this information is only available for a 3 month spell and each individual feedback listing has to be clicked.

D!ve^Bomb!

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

What things are looked at? Are there any bots searching listings to check odd behaviour? eg someone with a past history in low value trading suddenly listing high value items? What about feedback solicitation?.

Feedback solicitation is not a fraud issue, our investigations department handles that..

When checking for fraudulent eBayers we take into considertion the neg feedback, the number of complaints they have had etc..

Newly registered eBays selling high risk high value items are known as section 9, and we also look out for them as well..

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Yes, I know the 'community' are very good at proactive fraud identification. I went through a phase of reporting suspicious listings by the bucket load a few years ago and discussing these with other ebay members on the discussion boards. What dis-illisioned me was the fact that ebay done nothing and the buyers would eventually end up on the discussion boards seeking advice. Eventually ebay put a stop on discussing suspicious listings on their groups as there was a new thread every couple of hours and ebay wanted to suppress the airing of the fraudulent listings..

well as i said, we have to take into consideration the users feedback and how many complaints are made against them, we can't just suspend someone because you or anyone else complains..

as for surpressing the airing on fraudulent listings, i haven't got clue about that and tbh it doesn't concern me or the job i do..

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

A utility bill (or other comparable ID) would correlate the ID of the person with the credit card that is required when registering and the address. It would not stop the serious scammers and fraudsters but it would stop the majority of fraud - the opportunist...

why would a utility bill stop any kind of fraud? the majority of fraud complaints are in relation to normal eBayers, they haven't registered with false info

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Fraud is not just keeping money and not sending the goods

There are listings which are totally designed to lure people into thinking they will get a certain item. ebay claim they cannot do anything as the seller has not broken his word and the buyer should have read the listing properly. The classic 'Playstation 2 Games System Box' type listing. The seller will have a picture of a playstation console with controllers and have a full technical description of the system. He is trying to make his ad look like he is selling the console when in fact, he is selling an empty box of a playstaion 2 system. This is scamming and ebay will not side with the buyer.

to be completely honest, i work 10hrs a day and have answered thousands of emails and i have never come across such a scam of a buyer recieving an empty PS2 box

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The one area that is absolutely rife on ebay is selling fake goods as legitimate. For example, there are hundreds if not thousands of listings on ebay UK for DVDs which are fake (good quality fakes) but they are passed off as the real thing..

I agree, but again, out of the thousands of mails i answer, this makes up very very little..

And if this is the case then the sellers will more than likely have feedback to show this hence a buyer should be more wary..

and the more neg feedback they have the sooner we can act on suspending the seller.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I have reported plenty of these listings to know that ebay will not pull them or suspend the seller. They make money from the listing, they make money from the Final Value, they make money from the payment (if they go through ebay for payments). ebay make money all along the chain and are quite happy for sellers to sell fake goods as long as the seller does not say fake in the listing..

How do you know they are fake? How do you propose we stop sellers selling fake items? it's all easier said then done..

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

In actual numbers, what is your 1% fraud figure you quoted? 10,000? 100,000, 1m? 10m? fraudulent listings per year?..

Haven't a clue tbh

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

With the case in this thread, any potential bidder should be able to see straight away the % of the feedbacks received by value ranges eg very small value, small value, medium value, large value, very large value. A seller with 95% trading in the first range but now selling in the 5th range should raise alarm bells. At the moment, this information is only available for a 3 month spell and each individual feedback listing has to be clicked.

Thats not a bad idea.. but why would it matter? if a seller sells on eBay then a buyers should not be looking into what the seller bought in their past, buyers should be looking at the sellers feedback for selling, there is a link on the feedback page that lets you choose what feedback to look at, feedback left by buyers or feedback left by sellers..

if you come across a seller selling a porsche, and you see their feedback, which is a 100% positive with 50 feedback left, but they have never sold anything before, then maybe you'd want to think twice before bidding.

Selik

Some more developments....

I've now noticed that it when I logon to Ebay now I'm being told that I HAVEN'T paid for this item!!! Unbelievable. I paid using the Pay Now button. Another suspicious thing in this seemingly endless procession of suspiciousness is the fact that my Paypal payment for the phone was sent to a hotmail address. Only noticed this tonight but the email I got saying that the the item was posted was an NTL one as is the one registered on Ebay for his account. Maybe this clown is trying to make it look like I somehow never paid and as a result that's why I haven't received the phone... Wanker.

nlgbbbblth

I was ripped off by a fradulent seller about 12 months ago over a DVD costing £13

not a lot of money.
He got 57 negative feedbacks over 2 weeks. [all after I won the auction]
Reported it to ebay and all I got were AUTOMATED email responses.

Actually, I would have preferred to get no response.

Automated responses that bear no relevance to the situation in hand are pointless.
If those responses were in letter format they would probably have a facsimile signature of some unreachable person on them

D!ve^Bomb!

Giles wrote:

Some more developments....

I've now noticed that it when I logon to Ebay now I'm being told that I HAVEN'T paid for this item!!! Unbelievable. I paid using the Pay Now button..

Don't worry about that it means nothing

Giles wrote:

Another suspicious thing in this seemingly endless procession of suspiciousness is the fact that my Paypal payment for the phone was sent to a hotmail address. Only noticed this tonight but the email I got saying that the the item was posted was an NTL one as is the one registered on Ebay for his account. Maybe this clown is trying to make it look like I somehow never paid and as a result that's why I haven't received the phone... Wanker.

again it's probably nothing.. and it doesn't mean anything anyway

Selik

Just got this "automated" email from Ebay after lodging a complaint with them now as well...

Dear eBay Member,

Thank you for contacting us about the problems that you've been having with your trading partner. We are happy to help you with your query.

As the security of our members is very important to us, we will investigate your situation and if necessary will take the appropriate action.

Due to (eBay's) Privacy policy, we are unable to provide you with information about what investigation we have done.

Please note: This email confirms receipt of your Online Fraud Complaint. Should it not be possible for you to resolve the situation after 30 days, buyers that have financial loss through the transaction or have not received the item in good shape, have the possibility to file a claim with the Standard Purchase Protection Programme. In order to file a Standard Purchase Protection Programme claim, please visit the following URL:

http://tools2.ebay.co.uk/ofcp/login.aspx?lang=1&claim=1

Further information on the Standard Purchase Protection Programme, can be found here:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/community/fpp-guide.html

Below we will provide you with possibilities that will help you to achieve a solution to your problem.

If you paid for this item with a credit/debit card, please contact your credit/debit card company. Most card issuers provide full consumer protection in instances of online fraud. Your card issuer can provide you with detailed information about your chargeback rights. To contact your issuer, call their customer service number, which is usually printed on the back of the card or on your monthly statement.

I would also encourage you to review the options found at the link: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/win-receive.html

Please contact your trading partner once again to resolve the situation.

You can find the contact details of your trading partner online, please see the (go to the) following link:

http://cgi3.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MemberSearchShow

Firstly you will need to insert the user ID and item number of your trading partner, then on the next pages please your user ID and password.

We will then send you an email with the post address of your trading partner. A copy of this email with your address will also be sent to your trading partner.

I hope this information has been helpful.

Best wishes,

The eBay.co.uk Team

Load of rubbish doubt I'll ever even hear from them again...

D!ve^Bomb!

nlgbbbblth wrote:

I was ripped off by a fradulent seller about 12 months ago over a DVD costing £13

not a lot of money.
He got 57 negative feedbacks over 2 weeks. [all after I won the auction]
Reported it to ebay and all I got were AUTOMATED email responses.

Actually, I would have preferred to get no response.

Automated responses that bear no relevance to the situation in hand are pointless.
If those responses were in letter format they would probably have a facsimile signature of some unreachable person on them

you get the automated responces in relation to the subject lines you choose when writing to eBay, if you got a responce that didn't have anything to do with what you were complaining about then you probabaly didn't choose the correct subject line

D!ve^Bomb!

Giles wrote:

Just got this "automated" email from Ebay after lodging a complaint with them now as well...

Dear eBay Member,

Thank you for contacting us about the problems that you've been having with your trading partner. We are happy to help you with your query.

As the security of our members is very important to us, we will investigate your situation and if necessary will take the appropriate action.

Due to (eBay's) Privacy policy, we are unable to provide you with information about what investigation we have done.

Please note: This email confirms receipt of your Online Fraud Complaint. Should it not be possible for you to resolve the situation after 30 days, buyers that have financial loss through the transaction or have not received the item in good shape, have the possibility to file a claim with the Standard Purchase Protection Programme. In order to file a Standard Purchase Protection Programme claim, please visit the following URL:

http://tools2.ebay.co.uk/ofcp/login.aspx?lang=1&claim=1

Further information on the Standard Purchase Protection Programme, can be found here:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/community/fpp-guide.html

Below we will provide you with possibilities that will help you to achieve a solution to your problem.

If you paid for this item with a credit/debit card, please contact your credit/debit card company. Most card issuers provide full consumer protection in instances of online fraud. Your card issuer can provide you with detailed information about your chargeback rights. To contact your issuer, call their customer service number, which is usually printed on the back of the card or on your monthly statement.

I would also encourage you to review the options found at the link: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/win-receive.html

Please contact your trading partner once again to resolve the situation.

You can find the contact details of your trading partner online, please see the (go to the) following link:

http://cgi3.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MemberSearchShow

Firstly you will need to insert the user ID and item number of your trading partner, then on the next pages please your user ID and password.

We will then send you an email with the post address of your trading partner. A copy of this email with your address will also be sent to your trading partner.

I hope this information has been helpful.

Best wishes,

The eBay.co.uk Team

Load of rubbish doubt I'll ever even hear from them again...

well, no you won't hear from them again, this this gives you the basic info that you need, we're not going to do everything for you!! it's up to you to contact the seller and try and resolve this between yourselves! if after 30 days you don't come to resolution you can file a claim.. what more do you want

A Dub in Glasgo

D!ve^Bomb! wrote:

Feedback solicitation is not a fraud issue, our investigations department handles that..

Not strictly fraud but it enables sellers to build up their feedback record so that they can then list items knowing that bidders will trust the feedback record.

well as i said, we have to take into consideration the users feedback and how many complaints are made against them, we can't just suspend someone because you or anyone else complains..

No you can't but is it too much to ask ebay that they use people who are can spot the signs of fraud.

why would a utility bill stop any kind of fraud? the majority of fraud complaints are in relation to normal eBayers, they haven't registered with false info

So the majority of people who commit fraud have the correct address, phone number and name. It must be pretty straight forward for the police to deal with this matter then? Are we talking low value fraud?

to be completely honest, i work 10hrs a day and have answered thousands of emails and i have never come across such a scam of a buyer recieving an empty PS2 box

What about this one? Not an empty box but using the same technique.

I agree, but again, out of the thousands of mails i answer, this makes up very very little..

Because the buyers do not realise they are fakes

And if this is the case then the sellers will more than likely have feedback to show this hence a buyer should be more wary..

Not if the buyers do not realise they have fakes or if the buyers know they are buying fakes.

How do you know they are fake? How do you propose we stop sellers selling fake items? it's all easier said then done..

As a collector of 300 DVDs, I have some basic knowledge to spot fakes. What usually gets me though is the following simple examples:

1. A DVD sold on ebay that has not yet been released on DVD at all
2. A region protected DVD that is listed as Region ALL, Region 0 or multiregion
3. A certain region DVD release with out of specification details eg A region 2 DVD listed with DTS soundtrack when the region 2 release does not have a DTS soundtrack
4. Sellers who only sell the DVDs discs. They do not supply the DVD case, cover art or inlay (if any).

I would like ebay to have some knowledgable people in their departments who can use a bit of common sense when a report comes in. Usually, a report in 3 out of those 4 examples will be ignored. ebay may act on example 1.

Thats not a bad idea.. but why would it matter? if a seller sells on eBay then a buyers should not be looking into what the seller bought in their past, buyers should be looking at the sellers feedback for selling, there is a link on the feedback page that lets you choose what feedback to look at, feedback left by buyers or feedback left by sellers..

And what if the seller has 1,000 positves for selling an ebook by email at 1p. That seller would lie low for 3 months and he now has an impeccible record that nobody can look into. He then places high value electrical items for sale and goes walkies.

if you come across a seller selling a porsche, and you see their feedback, which is a 100% positive with 50 feedback left, but they have never sold anything before, then maybe you'd want to think twice before bidding.

If you come across a seller selling a Porsche with 1,000 feedback sale and you cannot see what value he was selling before. What do you do?

It is a simple amendment to the feedback record to show the value of sales and a summary. Not much is it?

D!ve^Bomb!

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Not strictly fraud but it enables sellers to build up their feedback record so that they can then list items knowing that bidders will trust the feedback record.

As i said, i don't deal with this, investigations are the people you wanna complain to..

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

No you can't but is it too much to ask ebay that they use people who are can spot the signs of fraud..

We do everyday, but if a user has 100% + feedback and not one single complaint has been made, why would we have reason to think they are fraudulent..

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

So the majority of people who commit fraud have the correct address, phone number and name. It must be pretty straight forward for the police to deal with this matter then? Are we talking low value fraud?..

Yep, most people forget about it tbh, some take em to small claims court.. rarely does anyone go to please unless it's for a serious amount of money. and as i said, if they do it often enought then they will be suspended eventually..

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

What about this one? Not an empty box but using the same technique.

i didn't even read the description, tbh all i had to look at there was the guys feedback, would you bid for that PS2, i know i sure as hell wouldn't of.. this is where that common sense comes into play

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Because the buyers do not realise they are fakes

Not if the buyers do not realise they have fakes or if the buyers know they are buying fakes..

Well if the buyers are happy then whats the problem? have you never bought or seen a fake dvd?

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

As a collector of 300 DVDs, I have some basic knowledge to spot fakes. What usually gets me though is the following simple examples:

1. A DVD sold on ebay that has not yet been released on DVD at all
2. A region protected DVD that is listed as Region ALL, Region 0 or multiregion
3. A certain region DVD release with out of specification details eg A region 2 DVD listed with DTS soundtrack when the region 2 release does not have a DTS soundtrack
4. Sellers who only sell the DVDs discs. They do not supply the DVD case, cover art or inlay (if any)

I would like ebay to have some knowledgable people in their departments who can use a bit of common sense when a report comes in. Usually, a report in 3 out of those 4 examples will be ignored. ebay may act on example 1.

Again, common sense.. If you see a dvd that isn't even out yet then why buy it, unless you don't care..

I personally wouldn't have anything to do with ending these kind of listing.. when it's bought and someone complains, that's where i come in

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

And what if the seller has 1,000 positves for selling an ebook by email at 1p. That seller would lie low for 3 months and he now has an impeccible record that nobody can look into. He then places high value electrical items for sale and goes walkies.

If you come across a seller selling a Porsche with 1,000 feedback sale and you cannot see what value he was selling before. What do you do?

It is a simple amendment to the feedback record to show the value of sales and a summary. Not much is it?

I would love for you to show me an example of such an unlikely situation..

Slutmonkey57b

Oh no you got scammed on ebay.

What. A. Big. ****ing. Shocker.

Next you'll be wondering why that nice nigerian man hasn't transferred all that money into your bank account.