Body found Inch strand Cork

okidoki987

most sex offenders get housed in solitary or with their own kind.

jank

Cell profiling or triangulation only works when the phone is on.

So how did they trace the phone even though it was turned off!?

The Muppet

jank wrote:

So how did they trace the phone even though it was turned off!?

AS you said earlier there are reports that suggest mobile phones only have a "Soft" power off and so still emit a signal when powered off. This tracking technique was alledgedly used in the Soham case to find the victims personal items in the school. At the time there were reports of low flying aircraft over the school and it was said at the time that this plane was tracking the signal.

That makes sense to me because if you leave you phone off for a few days it is usually flat when you try use it again which indicated something is usuing the battery,

Condolences to Roberts family , I hope the perpetrator/s is caught and never sees the light of day again.

Sleepy

One of the lads in work was saying that as far as the autopsy showed, the poor lad wasn't "interfered with" before his death which was apparently caused by suffocation...

shoegirl

Hobbes wrote:

Or he could of headed out, got lost and walked off in the wrong direction thinking he was going in the right direction. Come night time, totally lost and died from exposure to the weather. It certainly is possible. He was only 12 years old.

Darling I live on the opposite side of Midleton, just off the road that leads out towards the Whitegate/Inch area where he was found. The boy lived on the opposite side of the town, nearly 3 miles out. The road he lives on is a quiet country road, he would have to walk through the entire town and cross the dual carraigway just to get onto the Whitegate Rd. He'd have to pass through the villages of either Ballinacurra/Cloyne or Aghada/Whitegate in order to make the trip, which would take about 3 hrs.

Not only that, but I live there, and I cannot find Inch. I'd hardly see a lost 11 year old able to do that. With basic local knowledge (I'm originally from Dublin and have only lve here 2.5 years) your hyposthesis, is unfortunately way off track. Aside from anything else half of Cork would have noticed him. Big difference between the country roads around Ballyedmond and the busier roads on the other side of Midleton.

The main reason people believe the abduction theory is a) out of character disappearance, b) Inch is so remote and difficult to reach and lastly c) he couldn't have got there without drawing attention to himself.

shoegirl

The Muppet wrote:

AS you said earlier there are reports that suggest mobile phones only have a "Soft" power off and so still emit a signal when powered off.
That makes sense to me because if you leave you phone off for a few days it is usually flat when you try use it again which indicated something is usuing the battery

1. Most phones power off before the battery is completely flat (apparently its to preserve the life of the battery)
and 2. apparently you can ping a phone. Its basically a network device after all. I would guess if this is the case a tracert might at least reveal the nearest device it was last connected to.

RebelRockChick

shoegirl wrote:

Darling I live on the opposite side of Midleton, just off the road that leads out towards the Whitegate/Inch area where he was found. The boy lived on the opposite side of the town, nearly 3 miles out. The road he lives on is a quiet country road, he would have to walk through the entire town and cross the dual carraigway just to get onto the Whitegate Rd. He'd have to pass through the villages of either Ballinacurra/Cloyne or Aghada/Whitegate in order to make the trip, which would take about 3 hrs.

Not only that, but I live there, and I cannot find Inch. I'd hardly see a lost 11 year old able to do that. With basic local knowledge (I'm originally from Dublin and have only lve here 2.5 years) your hyposthesis, is unfortunately way off track. Aside from anything else half of Cork would have noticed him. Big difference between the country roads around Ballyedmond and the busier roads on the other side of Midleton.

The main reason people believe the abduction theory is a) out of character disappearance, b) Inch is so remote and difficult to reach and lastly c) he couldn't have got there without drawing attention to himself.

I agree, he could of never of walked all the way there. I live 3 miles from Midleton but on the Ballinacurra side, there is no way he could of walked all the way to inch and anyway his bike was abandoned in a ditch half a mile from his home. My friend lives at Inch strand, only about half a mile from where he was found.

The other body found in Midleton the person had nothing to do with it, i know people who knew him and they said he wouldn't hurt a fly!

Did anyone hear on the 96fm yesterday that 2 more bodies were found in Midleton, everyone in the town heard of it, then found out that the 2 people were alive and nothing had happened to them thankfully and that it was all made up!

I couldn't believe it when i heard the body was that of Robert, I was constantly hoping he would return home safe and well! His funeral is tomorrow in town, alot of shops in town are going to be closed as a mark of respect during the funeral!
My thoughts are with his family!!

Sarah

StupidLikeAFox

jank wrote:

So how did they trace the phone even though it was turned off!?

Well in fairness when your phone is turned off the date and time on it still works, so theres some sorta power there

seamus

jank wrote:

So how did they trace the phone even though it was turned off!?

Last known whereabouts. When your phone is on you are traceable to within a certain radius inside the cell. It's reasonable to assume that whoever took Robert wouldn't have turned his phone off until he had taken robert whereever - the kidnapper would be more concerned with moving the child, not searching him for a mobile.

It's rare your phone would have a "soft" power off option. If you leave a battery in almost any device, it will discharge naturally. This is why you should remove the battery from your car before a long absence. In general, the more complicated the device, the greater the latent power drain. Date and time on a phone persists because it requires minimal power, so even though you haven't enough power in your phone to turn it on, there's easily enough to maintain the date and time for quite a while.

shoegirl

RebelRockChick wrote:

Did anyone hear on the 96fm yesterday that 2 more bodies were found in Midleton, everyone in the town heard of it, then found out that the 2 people were alive and nothing had happened to them thankfully and that it was all made up!

Yeah we heard that one too, also there was a rumour about 2 brothers in Mogeely.
Also a few really obviously untrue tall tales that are quite blatantly scurrilous rumours. The thing that saddens me a lot about all this is is the amount of unsubstantiated rumour that has been going around the Midleton area regarding this terribly sad affair. God knows the family have been through enough without some very hurtful rumours going around the place.

If I hear any rumours about this issue I go out of my way to question them and always tell the person telling me that I believe it to be a vicious and unsubstantiated rumour. All we do know right now is that the Holohans are ordinary people and their son was killed by somebody else and dumped in Inch. We can only conjecture what else may have gone on.

Sparky

About the mobile phone issue, there is a small transmitter in the phone that uses less power than it would use for to keep the time, this is why mabey the networks had to boost there mobile phone masts to get a pickup on the signal, ive read this in many articles over the years and i also heard it on the news at one on radio1 about a year and a half ago, they also use this technology to disable phones that were robbed, especcially used in most modern new phones.
I also hope that they get that absolute and total criminal bas**rd(s), they should be given the pain that robert was given, what they done to that boy is sick, he was 11, he had his whole future ahead of him and it was taken away from him, people who do these things to people especcially a young child like robert must have no conscience or are just completely sick, what is our world coming to, a young child killed. My prayers are with the family and i hope they get over this tradegy.
If we get the bast**ds, i think we should send them to Iraq to be beheaded, prision is'nt good enough for them. let them feel the pain of all our anger.

Sorry if i sound strange, but im angry about the issue of what happened.

SimonMaher

First of all sympathy to family and friends of that poor lad. Really a shocking case. From reading the papers today it seems the killer may well have been someone who knew the kid, lost their temper and panicked. I hate to see where this line of enquiry may be heading.

On the topic of the phone pinging, I talked to a GSM engineer last night. He explained that they were able to trace the phone to the last cell that it talked too. It apparently was on for about a day from the time of his dissapearance. When a phone is on, it can be pinged easily enough. However, when a phone is off, as has been explained, the best that can be done is to find the phones last known whereabouts. New phones (and phones in several countries at present) will have a GPS chip which will help track phones and will be powered by a secondary (presumably "watch" type battery) which will be recharged when the phone is. For now though, there is no way of tracing a phone thats switched off.

Poor kid, rest in peace.

Pete

jhegarty

seamus wrote:

Last known whereabouts. When your phone is on you are traceable to within a certain radius inside the cell. It's reasonable to assume that whoever took Robert wouldn't have turned his phone off until he had taken robert whereever - the kidnapper would be more concerned with moving the child, not searching him for a mobile.

It's rare your phone would have a "soft" power off option. If you leave a battery in almost any device, it will discharge naturally. This is why you should remove the battery from your car before a long absence. In general, the more complicated the device, the greater the latent power drain. Date and time on a phone persists because it requires minimal power, so even though you haven't enough power in your phone to turn it on, there's easily enough to maintain the date and time for quite a while.

all mobile phones work on a soft power off... thats why your alarm rings even when the battery is "dead" ... try it sometime...

if he had accidently walked that way , he would have passed 10~20 signs point to midelton in the other direction.... i am from just a mile from inch and know the road very well... you don't end up there by accident (or on purpose) unless you know the area ......

seamus

jhegarty wrote:

all mobile phones work on a soft power off... thats why your alarm rings even when the battery is "dead" ... try it sometime...

Yeah, I checked it out further. It hadn't occured to me that the off switches haven't been mechanical in a long time.

RebelRockChick

shoegirl wrote:

Yeah we heard that one too, also there was a rumour about 2 brothers in Mogeely.
Also a few really obviously untrue tall tales that are quite blatantly scurrilous rumours. The thing that saddens me a lot about all this is is the amount of unsubstantiated rumour that has been going around the Midleton area regarding this terribly sad affair. God knows the family have been through enough without some very hurtful rumours going around the place.

If I hear any rumours about this issue I go out of my way to question them and always tell the person telling me that I believe it to be a vicious and unsubstantiated rumour. All we do know right now is that the Holohans are ordinary people and their son was killed by somebody else and dumped in Inch. We can only conjecture what else may have gone on.

Ya, the poor family! They have been through enough! I was at the funeral on Saturday and his mother stayed with the coffin until it was buried, she didn't want to leave him. All we can do is pray for them!

Just heard the person they were questioning has been charged! I know of the person.

rymus

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0117/holohanr.html

threebeards

rymus wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0117/holohanr.html

Was some sort of a deal cut to reduce it to manslaughter?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

passive

damn...beat me to it.

I guess after all the buildup and media attention that just doesn't seem possible... whatever about his death being an accident the guy is reasonably screwed for hiding the body.. You have to wonder what he was thinking, especially when he gave fingerprints afterwards? (could be wrong..read it earlier)

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

passive

oh yeah, i get all that. I just don't see why he gave fingerprints...if he had wanted to turn himself in he should have done so. If he had not wanted to be caught he shouldn't have (this is, again, going on the impression i got from what i read earlier that he voluntarily gave fingerprints)

A Dub in Glasgo

What kind of horseplay results in a 20 year old man choking an 11 year old child?

To then dump his body so that the rats and other animals can feed on the body for days and leaving the family waiting so long is disgusting. there should be some sort of charge for that too. Desecrating a body and mental torture?

rymus

shock can do funny things to a persons brain... strange it took him so long to actually come to his senses and turn himself in though.

Chucky the tree

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

What kind of horseplay results in a 20 year old man choking an 11 year old child?

To then dump his body so that the rats and other animals can feed on the body for days and leaving the family waiting so long is disgusting. there should be some sort of charge for that too. Desecrating a body and mental torture?

a charge for desecrating a body would be bothing, so its kind of pointless.

Seems to be a tragic accident which ruins both families lives.

MojoMaker

You know the kid had ADD right? A real handful by all accounts. Not beyond the realm of possibility that horseplay with someone like that could easily have got tragically out of hand.

threebeards

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

When an 11 year old child goes missing for a week and a half and his body is found dumped 14 miles away half covered in plastic, premeditation has to be questioned. As a dub in glasgow said, what kind of horseplay results in a 20 year old man choking an 11 year old child to death. On the other hand, I wasn't aware that he suffered from ADD and under those circumstances it may well have been something that got out of hand. Regardless of what happened, the bottom line for the Holohan family is that their loss is irreplaceable and I can only try to imagine what they're going through. I'm sure the family of the man charged are going through their own torture.

seamus

threebeards wrote:

As a dub in glasgow said, what kind of horseplay results in a 20 year old man choking an 11 year old child to death.

Who said anything about choking? Asphyxiation is a broad term. Perhaps the child was playing with a bag, and suffocated himself. As someone said, he was apparently an "energetic" child, so that's not outside the realm of possibility.

Either way, this 20-year old doesn't sound like the most stable or intelligent of people. It's possible that they were play wrestling or something, and he inadvertantly choked the child, not knowing his own strength.

uberwolf

I read somewhere that the injuries were consistent with a headlock. This to me sounds more and more like some kind of really unfortunate accident and panic to hide then anything else.

Time will tell. Two families lives ruined.

seamus

uberwolf wrote:

I read somewhere that the injuries were consistent with a headlock. This to me sounds more and more like some kind of really unfortunate accident and panic to hide then anything else.

Any links by any chance? I'd be surprised if I was correct, off the bat

A Dub in Glasgo

seamus wrote:

Who said anything about choking? Asphyxiation is a broad term. Perhaps the child was playing with a bag, and suffocated himself. As someone said, he was apparently an "energetic" child, so that's not outside the realm of possibility.

Either way, this 20-year old doesn't sound like the most stable or intelligent of people.

Doesn't reflect very well on Cork Institute of Technology Engineering Department if he is 'not very intelligent'

I said choked because most reports I have seen have speculated that he died of asphyxiation from someone restricting his air intake eg the child was put in a strong headlock. The bag theory is not outside the realms of possibility but it is very low down on the realms of probability.

Skud

apparently the kid was throwing stones at his van and he got out of the van and put him in a head lock (meant to be messing) and accidently killed him. When he told his parents they turned him in also: well that's the story going around.

Him dumping the body will only incriminate him more. It has wrecked two families, shame and a tradgey really. They were also friends according to some sources.

seamus

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Doesn't reflect very well on Cork Institute of Technology Engineering Department if he is 'not very intelligent'

Well, it is Cork

TBH, I didn't catch any news last night, I'm only going on what's been said here.

uberwolf

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Doesn't reflect very well on Cork Institute of Technology Engineering Department if he is 'not very intelligent'

doesn't reflect on them at all TBH. You could train a monkey to sit the leaving cert. College isn't hard to get into.

fiacha

Skud wrote:

apparently the kid was throwing stones at his van and he got out of the van and put him in a head lock (meant to be messing) and accidently killed him. When he told his parents they turned him in also: well that's the story going around.

Him dumping the body will only incriminate him more. It has wrecked two families, shame and a tradgey really. They were also friends according to some sources.

don't think this is the place to spread local gossip about how the child was killed. leave it to the courts.

jank

Well, it is Cork

This is not a joke Seamus, and im surprised you of all people.

Seems to me that this death was a tragic accident. Very tragic but an accident none the less. It will be surprising how the public and press will react to the chrage of manslaughter plus he will probably pled guilty(if the current story is correct) which would indicate a reducted sentence

What is most apparent and disturbing is that the victim and the killer could have been you or me. The killer wasnt some sexed crazed peado from mars with horns on his head (a monster!!?? as most of the press were calling him). He is just some ordinary guy who in a moment of madness just went too far with some horseplay and then paniced (as far as ive heard he tried to resuscitate the body but couldnt).

It could have been anybody.

Same can be said about the Robert. Just an ordinary lad out on his bike.

Very sad overall. Its areminder of us all that there is a very thin line between life and death and sanity and insanity.

quarryman

Either way, this 20-year old doesn't sound like the most stable or intelligent of people.

this comment really annoys me. what exactly is it based on? have you a link to a statement from someone?

i agree with Jank about it not being a joke. fairly insensitive i think.

Kingsize

The Press & the media have a lot to answer for really, they'd have you believe that middleton is terrorised by hordes of Foreign paedos running around raping & killing
(naturally it was a foriegner- there are no home grown paedophiles in Cork - just ask Darina allen)
Now they are gonna make a meal of this tragic story.
What about the family of the poor soul whose body was also found?
Will there be any apology for the implication that this was a paedo suicide??
i doubt it

jank

The Press & the media have a lot to answer for really, they'd have you believe that middleton is terrorised by hordes of Foreign paedos running around raping & killing

What do you expect from most of the papers here, and im surprised the broadsheets jumped on that bandwagon too e.g a headline that went like "HUNT FOR A MONSTER" is something you would expect from The Sun or Star but from the Irish Times/Independent is very surprising.

(Cant remember which one but it was def one of them)

seamus

jank wrote:

This is not a joke Seamus, and im surprised you of all people.

Grow a sense of humour. I fail to see how that statement in any way made a joke of the actual issue.

jank

No in your reponse to a thread stating that the killer must not be very intelligent and shows CIT in bad light if its students arent very intelligent, you said "Well it is Cork"

In other words "What do your expect from an IT and the students that goes there casue after all.... its in Cork :mad: "

Yea we lack the few brain cells that make us think more rationally than others

You can draw your own conclusions on how it may piss others off that may not share your aparent sense of humour. (Remember this thread is about a murder of a 11 year old boy)

I know you ment it as a joke hence the smilly but its not the right time or place for it here to be taking the piss of cork people

seamus

If you think so.

I'm sorry if any CIT people were offended by my light-hearted, non-serious remark. Now, back on-topic.

Trojan

As an IT graduate (but not from Cork), I am highly offended by Seamus' insinuation that I am not as intelligent as Trinity graduates.

jank wrote:

You can draw your own conclusions on how it may piss others off that may not share your aparent sense of humour

You might do well to remember that others may not share your opinions. This is a serious topic, and a very sad tale. That does not mean that we should abandon all light-hearted banter and jokes. Life would be a very tedious occupation should we do so. Sometimes it's good for us to have a chuckle when there is sadness all around.

ageary2003

I read in the examiner yesterday that "chillingly" the killer was at the funeral. To me it sounds more like the guy remorseful and sorry for what he did. The press seems to be making him out to be a guy who just thought he would kill the kid for fun. The thing that scares me is that this situation could be you or i. Its easy to get pissed off at kids (esp if he did have ADD) and the child could have done somthing extremly stupid (like throwing a rock at the car), somebody wouldnt have to be a physco to kill a week kid in a situation like that . That being said, he should have taken the kid straight to hospital instead of dumping him horribly like that.

embee

People have been saying that this 20 year old called the police voluntarily and handed himself over without protest, which in some peoples eyes was the right thing to do. Having said that, there has to be something inherently awry with someones thought process who thought that the right thing to do after accidentally suffocating a young boy was to dump his body in the middle of nowhere and then only step forward as the perpetrator when the body had been found. One can only imagine the sense of panic and guilt that he must have felt, and the agonising guilt too.The chap hasn't done himself any favours whatsoever, but in a way, I feel sorry for him. If it really was horseplay that went tragically wrong, he is going to have to live with that for the rest of his life, as will his family and the family of Robert Holohan. I only hope that Roberts family garner some comfort in the fact that their son apparently wasn't set upon by a paedophile,sexually abused, then brutally murdered and left for dead.

Its an awful, awful case that could so easily have been avoided.

Trojan

I dunno embee, it's hard to imagine what kind of thoughts were going through his mind at the time. Panic, guilt, shame could make a normally rational person do some strange things. I don't think it's fair for people to continue to call him monstrous for his actions (assuming that he is guilty, which by law, he is not yet proven to be).

Like you, I feel very sorry for the poor kid (the 20 year old kid) as well as Robert and Roberts family.

Cactus Col

Just curious to know who the second body was (the one in midleton) and how he died?

E@gle.

Cactus Col wrote:

Just curious to know who the second body was (the one in midleton) and how he died?

There dosent seem to be much infomation about that. i havent heard anything.

Snapper1

Heard somewhere that it was a psychiatric patient who commited suicide. Don't know the circumstances surrounding the death so I'm free to be corrected.

embee

I absolutely agree with you on that, Trojan. I think it's pretty irresponsible of the media to continue to brandish the young man a monster. It has become increasingly clear that this was a tragic accident, so to call him a monster is to insinuate that he meant to kill him, and I really don't feel that that is the case.

I wish the media would just leave the families involved to grieve and come to terms with what has happened, but I can't see that happening somehow.

ageary2003

Apparently the second man was not long out of hospital and wasn`t very well, apparently he was a nice man, pity his death was so over shadowed. serverly doubt he was a physicatric patient though